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Making every mile count
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Yeah the area is deadly for the amount of scenic routes on the doorstep. A new favourite of mine is to join the kilbogget park trail at deansgrange for a mile then cross the N11 at Johnstown Rd for a lap of Cabinteely park. It's about 7 miles in total and you can even get to use the chin up bars in Cabinteely at half way!!
Must hook up for a run after London but you'll have to slow down your easy pace
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Yeah the area is deadly for the amount of scenic routes on the doorstep. A new favourite of mine is to join the kilbogget park trail at deansgrange for a mile then cross the N11 at Johnstown Rd for a lap of Cabinteely park. It's about 7 miles in total and you can even get to use the chin up bars in Cabinteely at half way!!
Must hook up for a run after London but you'll have to slow down your easy pace
Might look for a little local knowledge here.
You know the trail by the Pitch & Putt at Loughlinstown that looks to go down by the river? Is that open to the public and does it go very far? Have gone past it on a couple of runs in to town but never had the opportunity to follow it. Looks very nice from the vantage point of the top deck on the 145 as you drive by.0 -
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NetwerkErrer wrote: »Careful now DR! Don't want to rock the boat when warning lights are flashing. Hope you don't mind me sharing a few thoughts but I'm going to anyway.
Much appreciated. That's the reason for an online log! I welcome criticism
NetwerkErrer wrote: »1. You seem to have a lot of intensity in your training but I don't see much time put aside for recovery. I think the slowest run I have seen you do in the last few weeks is faster than 7:40 pace and a that was a rare occurrence. Do you think you are doing enough recovery to balance the intensity?
Put simply, no. I don't really factor in recovery to be honest. That is one the biggest flaws in my training. I too often just 'go with the flow' during runs and consciously think about keeping the effort very very easy. It's a very bad habit I have gotten myself into. It has proven harder to control than I first thought.NetwerkErrer wrote: »2. A lot of your 5k pace sessions are done at close to 5m/m pace which is 15:30 for 5k. Why are you doing these repeats so fast when you are not currently in sub-16 shape? Wouldn't you feel the benefit would be greater working off current fitness level and it would make the other sessions in your week easier?
I probably do the sessions a bit too quick for my current ability. If I was to be honest, I think at this stage I should be capable of running a session on 12/16x400s @70-72 seconds but I am not. I also don't really know my current 5k ability as I have yet to race. I know it sounds bad but I see 5k training as a means to an end i.e help with marathon training down the line. As you have said, I need to back off the sessions slightly and aim to finish the session and build on and from that.NetwerkErrer wrote: »3. I see you that you are talking about increasing the volume next week on the 400s while slowing them down. In my mind, slowing them down would be a good idea but not because the volume is higher, a 400 repeat @ 5k pace is a 400m repeat @ 5k whether that is 8x400m or 20x400m. Less repeats shouldn't be done faster unless the goal race distance changes. Do you think a big increase in volume at 5k pace without the intermediate buildup is a good idea?
Interesting point. I do have a strong base to build off so increasing the rep total while slowing each one down shouldn't pose a huge problem. It's a good point you have made and one I am not too sure how to handle/answer at the moment!NetwerkErrer wrote: »4. A lot of your progressive tempos are finishing really fast, 5:10-5:15 per mile. I think I'm correct in saying this is 5k PB or faster pace. Is the effort really 85% on those runs for the last mile? If it was, wouldn't that be a comfortably under a sub-5 mile at 100% at the end of an 8 mile tempo, seems very excessive to me.
I don't finish too many that fast. 85%? Yeah, wouldn't be too far off. I am an odd runner in that I usually get stronger as the run goes on. Usually I really struggle at any type of effort initially but get stronger as the miles tick by. For example, I finished the training marathon @5.30 pace for the last mile. I would struggle to run 5.30 pace at the start of a 10k!
Usually the pace drops to around 5.20/5.30 in tempos. Not many will finish at 5.15 pace and if they do it will have been around 90% effort.NetwerkErrer wrote: »One more question and I don't mean to bring up old demons but do you think overtraining played a part in your performance in Donedea? I remember you said you were struggling on the warmdowns after workouts, that would be a clear indication of you pushing it too hard.
I do have tendency to slightly over-train. I like to push myself and if that leads to some bad performances, although annoying, I will take that. It's all about the bigger picture. If I ran a 2.40 marathon last year I would have been over the moon for about a day before focusing in on sub 2.35! I didn't get a chance to even run Donadea. 6.3x pace is very comfortable for me. Whatever would have happened after 22 miles I will never know but I know this would have been well within me, even on a bad day.
The stomach made running impossible. That had nothing to do with my training, more about prep (which I have learned from). I guess we will never know regarding the over-training as I simply did not get far enough for it to even become a possible race factor!NetwerkErrer wrote: »Just my 2 cents, take it fwiw.
Thanks again. A lot of food for thought (no broadband at the moment so excuse the delay!). Appreciated. Best of luck in the half at the weekend!0 -
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DocQismyJesus wrote: »Cool exchange lads. I read NE's original post and was wondering how it would go down. I'm a sensitive/ prickly git and I was thinking about how if it were me it'd get my back up a bit (wrongly). Nice to see you practice what to preach on constructive FB DR. TBH this kind of back and forth is a perfect example of how the logs can be a great tool- makes you really have to think about WHY you do things. FairPlay
Cheers Q. Exactly. Exchange is good and should be welcomed, not frowned upon and seen as any type of attack (for want of a better word). It's an online log after all
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(18 minute miles here I come! Haha.....)0 -
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Narco0o0o0o wrote: »How's it going DR...great training log and it's good that you're taking the critique positively so I'll throw mine in while the goings good, haha!
You are clearly a strong runner and love running but this might also be a drawback to a structured 5-10K training program. I think you'd agree that you do most of your easy runs by feel and at a reasonably quick pace and while this may OK in a marathon program, where your aim is to train your legs to adapt to running while tired, it's probably an impediment to 5-10K training, where all your week's training should ideally be geared towards making sure you are properly rested for your two key weekly sessions (ie, lactate threshold/VO2max/leg speed). This means doing all of your other weekly runs at a relatively low intensity and seeing them more as shakeout sessions to recover and get your legs ready for the harder work. By running your easy days too hard (and only slightly too hard...it all adds up), you're going into your important sessions below par and the quality of those sessions suffer, your body suffers as you bust yourself to run fast on tired legs (which has a knock on effect on the quality of subsequent sessions), and your confidence suffers by not hitting your targets.
Personally, I've found a heart rate monitor a great way to keep in check on easy days and long runs. 77% max heart rate is just below your aerobic threshold and you could probably run forever at this rate and not get tired. This is a good recovery run intensity as you get in some light aero while getting the blood pumping to clear out your legs and most times, I feel better after one of these runs than when I started, no matter how battered I felt to begin with. These runs are great because you're not stressing the system that much so it's all about recovery and maintenance. It might feel slow for you at first, and some days at that HR will be faster than others, but this is also a great intensity to concentrate on your form, as you don't have the mental distraction of fatigue. It's also good to throw some strides into these runs a couple times a week. Consistent running at that intensity also develops your super slow twitch fibers to become more efficient and 'faster' and you should find your pace at that HR increasing steadily over time. Training your super slow twitch fibers to be more efficient is obviously very beneficial for the marathon as it upgrades them at the same rate as your more general slow twitch fibers (which you'll be training at faster intensities), meaning you'll have a larger, more efficient, slow twitch repertoire to tap into during marathons. Anyway, without the HR monitor I'd be running my easy days too hard and it's difficult enough to recover from tough sessions as it is!
Aside from that, I think you absolutely need an all-out 5 or 10K race on a flat course to tell you where you're currently at so that you can have realistic training paces for your faster work. Running lactate threshold or VO2Max sessions quicker than you're currently capable has less of a positive training effect than running them a bit slower, never mind steadily inching you closer to burn-out. You should view that race as an important workout and taper with at least 3-4 days of easy running. so that you're super fresh for a 100% effort.
This is a handy excel table to calculate your Daniels Vdot training paces off any race time..
electricblues.com/archive/DanielsTables3-00-00.xls
Right well that was longer than intended! Cheers for the log and best of luck with your training. I'm adding you on Strava now just so you don't think I'm a crazy Strava stalker...wtf is it with those guys?!
Another follower! Yes!
Thanks for the comment, alot of great things contained in it. I do have a heart rate monitor (Polar) but it has remained in the box, unopened and never turned on
. I am somewhat apprehensive about using heart rate monitor training for one or two reasons. First, I tend to over-think my running and I think adding another layer of information may prove detrimental. Now, I could be completely wrong in saying that. I am taking a new direction soon enough so I will not sell the monitor just yet (in case!). I do like the idea of running easy by heart rate but for me it's a mentality thing. It's about instilling discipline into my easy days.
As you have mentioned above, running easy is very important to nail the hard days. This is were I struggle. I actually realised why last night. Running on tired legs has been drilled into me (to much success) at an early stage. The idea of basically doing everything on battered legs, including racing is the way I have been guided. It's a hard way but there's much to be said about it when marathon training. Now that I am not marathon training I have to get used to idea of being fresh for the important stuff.
I do also agree with the idea of racing very soon. Once again this will be hard because I will have to taper a small bit to get a good picture of where I am. This mentality does not come easy to me, trust me! I suppose there's little point on racing on tired legs at the moment.
I will seriously consider HR training over the next week or two and further investigate it.
Thanks again......you may have new follower yourself soon!0 -
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Monday 4/5
12 Miles
AM: 6 Miles Easy @7.18p/m in 43:51
PM: 6 Miles Easy @7.08p/m in 42:55
Tuesday 5/5
10.10 Miles @7.20p/m in 1.14:08
Last week this run (well similar) was on average 15 seconds a mile faster. Nice to see myself getting slower. You can teach an old dog new tricks after all.....Missing the club sessions at the moment but work is demanding me in on Tuesdays.
Wednesday 6/5
AM
7.5 Miles
Same place. Different time. Same bloody weather! You have to love the cinder track.
Plan: Magness Session: 3x(4x400) @5k pace~30 sec b/t reps, 4 min b/t sets
-inc. drills and 3 strides
Today I made the decision to just focus on 5k effort, not 5k pace. The weather was once again horrendous, with a wind that would stop you dead in your tracks. Today wasn't a day for hitting even splits. Delighted at the solid effort put in today. Even though I didn't record each 400m I allowed myself to use the stopwatch for the 12th and final rep. While the time of 77.25 seconds was far from stellar I was happy to see such a respectful time in the conditions presented today. The wind was worth at least 3 seconds a rep and probably more at times.0 -
Wednesday 7/5
I noticed during the mornings session that my right hamstring was progressively getting tighter throughout. The plan was a few easy miles that night to loosen out the legs. To be honest, I didn't pass too much heed as there's bound to always be an issue when running on average 10+ miles a day .
PM
5 Miles Very Easy @7.40p/m in 38:41
No issues whatsoever. A nice gentle run.
Thursday 8/5
8 Miles Easy @7.24p/m in 7.27p/m in 59:39
Friday 9/5
Session: 7 Miles
Plan: Magness 12x200m @3k effort ~200m jog recovery
(Why does it always ran on me? Bloody cinder track)
With the legs feeling rested I was somewhat keen to tick off the planned session before the weekend. The session itself was straightforward. While not being an outright speed session it gets the legs motoring. Like Tuesday, I decided not to time the reps as I really wanted to solely focus on effort an form. With 10 reps completed morning work was coming to a close. On the 11th rep the hamstring started to give out considerably. Decision time. In the heat of battle I trucked on to the last rep. It did not go well. On the home-straight with 50 metres to go I came very consciously close to injuring myself. The hamstring felt like it was going to 'pop' but on I went. How stupid. I jogged the last recovery and thereby finishing the session. The hamstring loosened out during the two mile warm-down but I knew damage had been done.
PM
.65 Miles :eek:
I wanted to test the leg so I set out on my usual 5 mile PM jog. The pain didn't ease so I had the pleasure of the walk of shame back to the house. Tonight was the first time I have ever been brought to a walk. You pay for your mistakes.
I will continue to test the leg as there is very little (if any pain) whilst walking etc. You don't mess around with hamstring issues so I will play this very carefully. Two sessions in 3 days was looking for trouble but the legs did feel well rested.
I have finally enjoyed the change in training emphasis during the week so hopefully it's just a minor blip.0 -
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Unlucky with the injury and I hope you make a speedy recovery. We all know injuries are inevitable in this sport, it's all about how you manage it and being sensible when returning. You have been going pretty well recently and good to see you taking the advice on board to slow the easy days down, I can't emphasise this myself enough, I think it was a major factor towards my improvements last year.
It's hard to slow it right down to what feels like a pedestrian pace on your easy days but the focus is pure recovery and that's when you make your gains, not to mention the extra juice you have for the sessions that matter.5.5 Miles Easy @7.17p/m in 40:03
This was in my eyes a big mistake. You had just taken a day off due to a clear hamstring injury and the next day you ran at this pace when it should have been slower than recovery pace, 8+ min mile. The only purpose of that run should have been test the hamstring and easing back into it if you felt pain free, it probably did no favours and possibly did more damage.
I know I have been guilty of the above, it's much easier to point out flaws in others training training than your own but it's a constant learning process. Anyway I really hope you recovery quickly, fwiw I think you will and you'll benefit from the mini break. We've some battling to do this summer 0 -
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I know what you mean! For the 2 weeks I was out, it was nice in a way to come home from work and just relax for the evening but before long I was itching to get out running again. I also have about a kg to lose now since I kept eating like I was training for a marathon!
When you do come back you'll have that little extra bit of appreciation of how lucky you are to be able to do this day in day out...also be prepare for calf pain 0 -
Monday 11/5-Wednesday 13/5
Injured.
Thought about running on Tuesday.
Seriously considered running on Wednesday.
Instead I worked, drank more coffee than usual and enjoyed some Gin & Tonics.
Thursday 14/5
5 Miles Very Easy @7.49p/m in 39:05
Somewhat nervously I set out this morning on the most important run for quite some time. Luckily, I had no pain over the previous two days so I was quietly confident setting out. With that said, I would know within the first mile had the rest been beneficial. The run itself was very uneventful (yippeeeeee!). The legs felt good but somewhat tight. That was to be expected I suppose.
Friday 15/5
5 Miles Easy @7.34p/m in 37:54
I felt very flat for this one. The legs felt in good shape but the sharpness built over the previous few weeks wasn't there. I know that will come back quickly with some smart training.
Saturday 16/5
8.10 Miles General Aerobic @6.56p/m in 56:10
Today was a shade fast. I can feel the sharpness coming back so I kind of went with flow. I did consciously keep the brakes slightly on throughout. It may not have have been the smartest run but it felt very in control and more importantly, enjoyable!
I feel like I am sort of out of the woods so to speak but not yet safe. I will undertake an evaluation run (progressive strides) to essentially test the leg on Monday. I will know then whether a session on Wednesday is a realistic prospect. Hopefully all being well I can commenced some proper training next week.
A possible session might be: Floating miles 3/4x(1 mile steady/1 mile @HMP). Open to suggestions.
Time to train smart and not overdo anything. I need to be patient.......not a strong-point!0 -
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Saturday 23/5
9 Miles Easy @6.59p/m General Aerobic in 1.02:53
Sunday 24/5
11.10+ Miles
AM: 6 Miles Easy @7.14p/m in 43:23
PM: 5.10+ Miles Easy @7.10p/m in 35:53
-inc. 5x30 second hill repeats @3k effort ~jog back recovery
WEEK TOTAL: 66.65+ MILES
Monday 25/5
8 Miles Easy
A new start this week meant I am now putting as much concentration into the easy run as session days. I want to able to control my easy pace rather than fall into the trap of running the easy stuff too fast.
Additional: 20 minutes S&C
Tuesday 26/5
14+ Miles
AM
8+ Miles
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/785354642
Magness Week 1: 3x(400m,600m,400m) @5k effort ~40 secs b/t reps, 4 min between sets
~inc. drills and strides
Effort, effort, effort..........that's the key word for the week!
It was fantastic to be back to the faster stuff after the old tear. I chose to focus on effort instead of targeting certain splits as I didn't want to force the issue given it was the first day back (sounds like being back at school). The Magness sessions really keep you on your toes. I really enjoy the variety it provides, constantly keeping the mind active (a very welcome distraction at times!). The effort (that word again) felt controlled even though I was working pretty hard. The first 600m rep of the last set was quite hard going. The legs felt weak but once I got it banked I knew that session was in the bag.
I didn't record any rep split but after evaluating the session the middle miles came in at 5.10, 5.10 and 5.04 respectively (the main chunk of the 5k session). Nice to look back and the decent clip achieved.
*you can add 5-10 per mile as it was track based (i'm tough like that)
PM
6 Miles Easy @7.28p/m 44:28
Wednesday 27/5
13.25 Miles
AM: 5 Miles Easy @7.37p/m 38:03
PM: 8.25 Miles Easy @7.25p/m 1.01:12
Additional: S&C and stretching
Thursday 28/5
7.10 Miles Easy @7.23 in 52:29
Additional: S&C (the stuff I was too hungover to do the previous day)0 -
Friday 29/5
14 Miles
AM
8 Miles
Magness Session (1/8): Session 2
(deep breath!)
Plan: 1,600m @10k, 600m @3k, 1,200m @5k, 400m @1,500m, 800m @5k ~3 min rec
-inc. drills/strides
Reps:
1,600m: 5.3x
600m: 1.55 (5.04p/m)
1,200m: 4.01 (5.15p/m)
400m:71 seconds (4.40p/m)
800m: 2.35 (5.09p/m)
A pretty decent showing this morning. I had a sprinter for company on the track which really helped. Him there his long stride and me there with my short little stride! We complimented each other well. Again I focused on effort but I decided to record each split. The first rep was too conservative and felt a bit too comfortable in truth. I told myself not to go out too hard on the first rep and I may gone a bit too easy on myself. The 400m should have been a sub 70 lap and it was until I hit the home-straight into the wall of wind. KC mentioned to me the day previous that he found the 5k reps the hardest. Now I know why! The last 800m was a tough one, with the legs feeling the effort.
I finished the session feeling I could (if pushed hard!) knock out a rep or two more.
PM
6 Miles Easy @7.31p/m in 45:07
Question: How was the wind Anthony?
Answer: Well. Mile 2 was in 7.09, while mile 4 was done in 7.47!! So, yeah. It was windy. 0 -
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