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Jamelia: 'High street shops shouldn't sell plus size clothing'

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    nokia69 wrote: »
    how often does this so called 'fat shaming' happen

    In reality, not too often, thought I've witnessed it a number of times in my life through having obese friends and family. Some of it is really eye-opening. And it's by adults too, not kids or teenagers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Jon Stark wrote: »
    No one wants to be around someone with a drink problem. Alcoholics and "problem Drinkers" are very much isolated and rejected in society.

    Lots and lots of people drink heavily in this country without it being classed as alcoholism though. Not to mention functioning alcoholics that people don't even suspect.


  • Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    Lollers! :pac:

    People have argued on here before that smokers ARE ostracised (the smoking ban etc.), but I don't agree with that. Smoking is harmful to people other than the person smoking, unlike people being overweight (the exception being when an overweight person spills into the seat next to them on public transport and that's more an annoyance rather than being harmful), so creating an environment where non-smokers are free from that harm is not ostracising smokers, IMO.

    Of course they aren't ostracised, but the same people who feel fat people should have their lives made difficult to maintain while being overweight rarely show the same concern for smokers, even though a fat person harms only themselves and smokers harm or at least irritate the bejesus out of others.

    Binge drinkers are exempt from this concern too, in spite of the anti social consequences. You have to be a seasoned alcoholic to get any disapproval of your drinking habits, and even then you're more likely to be despised for not being able to 'hold your drink'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4 RosieLion


    Okay so first of all I haven't read all of the replies, but I still wanted to post my views (so I'm sorry if I'm regurgitating someone's answer!).

    Right, I'm a 16 year old so I haven't got all the worldy wisdom that most posters have. But I am a size 12/14 (I am striving to lose weight simply because I want to get fitter) and I do understand what it feels like to be ashamed of your body. I wanted you to know that before you all accuse me of not knowing what it's like, and having a 'perfect body'.

    I don't get why everyone is jumping down Jamelia's throat. So what if she's not academically bright, or quite silly? Why on earth should that cloud your judgement of her statement? I personally agree with her; the high street and the media are normalizing obesity to such an extent that 60% of my generation are obese. It should be prevented because obesity costs the NHS billions of pounds per year simply because people aren't living a healthy lifestyle. It strains the economy, and provides a market for the mass slaughter of animals (I am a vegan and feel very strongly about the death of innocent animals so lesser humans can turn them into a cheap hamburger). And it does affect the quality of life a person has: practically every type of illness is increasing (depression, cancer, heart disease etc) and obesity has a direct correlation with it. So think of your health and say no to the next chance of a McDonald's, and opt for healthy foods and a brisk walk around the block.

    Additionally, she basically says the same thing about unhealthy skinny sizes. Yet no one is commenting on that... and it's because people are scared of using the word 'fat' because they'll too get their tongues ripped out. Doctors are subscribing more and more unnecessary medication to people who need a healthy dose of reality.
    And it's not as though obese people won't have any clothes, so quite being melodramatic. The impression I got was that there'll just be a more distinct line in the high street. Evans will still exist and new shops designed for obese people will open (because the market is a too big opportunity to miss, and everyone's so greedy these days). It's just there'll be separate shop for 'ordinary' sized humans, another for underweight/naturally smaller humans and another branch the obese/naturally larger (though nobody is a size 20 naturally, sorry).

    Sorry if I've offended anyone or if you don't agree. It can't be helped. And it's not like Jamelia's idea is ever going to launch; people in power are too scared to do anything significant these days in case they get voted out of power. Obesity AND anorexia is wrong and both and are being normalized by the media and high streets. So do something about it so you'll be able to fit into some great clothes and look fab... and if 'civilization' is suddenly destroyed and we have to scavenge off the land again, take note that it's not going to be the overweight people or the anorexic people who survive... it'll be the healthiest. That's why it's called the survival of the fittest. So go out and strive for your idea of fit and get healthy.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Jake Rugby Walrus666


    Prohibition will only drive it under ground. Then the criminal gangs will be supplying fat people clothes and adding god knows what -product will be cut them with lesser fabrics.

    I say legalise it. Control it. And generate some tax revenue off it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    High street should sell edible clothes; make a fortune off the fatties.


  • Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RosieLion wrote: »

    I don't get why everyone is jumping down Jamelia's throat. So what if she's not academically bright, or quite silly? Why on earth should that cloud your judgement of her statement? I personally agree with her; the high street and the media are normalizing obesity to such an extent that 60% of my generation are obese. It should be prevented because obesity costs the NHS billions of pounds per year simply because people aren't living a healthy lifestyle. It strains the economy, and provides a market for the mass slaughter of animals (I am a vegan and feel very strongly about the death of innocent animals so lesser humans can turn them into a cheap hamburger). .

    People are objecting to Jamelias idea because it's unworkable, it stigmatises people, it's insensitive and because it's unlikely to result in any real change.

    I'd be interested to know the source of your 60% figure, its wildly at odds with the accepted figures, which also make the distinction between overweight and obese.
    • Two out of five Irish adults - 39% (45% of men; 33% of women) are overweight6
    .
    • One in four - 25% (24% of men; 26% of women) is obese6
    .
    • The trend towards obesity in Ireland is increasing. Between 1990 and 2000 the
    prevalence of obesity increased by 67% overall, up 1.25 fold in women (from 13%) and
    up 2.5 fold in men (from 8%)


    Sauce:
    http://www.irishheart.ie/media/pub/factsheets/obesity_fact_sheet.pdf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Frito


    I'm confused Jamelia.
    Were there no fat people then before Penney's stocked a size 18?


    Oh they were, you say? So are there more fat people now because Penney's stocks a size 18?


    You're not sure but obesity levels have been rising since approx the 1940s due to significant changes in dietary habits, lifestyle, and we're still conducting research into the mechanisms of obesity, metabolic syndrome and diabetes. But you're confident that only stocking sizes 8-12 will reverse the obesity epidemic?

    Grand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,305 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    RosieLion wrote: »
    Okay so first of all I haven't read all of the replies, but I still wanted to post my views (so I'm sorry if I'm regurgitating someone's answer!).

    Right, I'm a 16 year old so I haven't got all the worldy wisdom that most posters have. But I am a size 12/14 (I am striving to lose weight simply because I want to get fitter) and I do understand what it feels like to be ashamed of your body. I wanted you to know that before you all accuse me of not knowing what it's like, and having a 'perfect body'.


    Won't quote the whole thing, but you did alright actually, spoke a lot of sense for someone only 16 years of age :)

    I don't usually comment on these aesthetics threads any more because tbh for me it was never so much about a person's physical attributes, but far more important that they have a healthy mind and a healthy and positive attitude to life that will have far more of an influence on their longevity or their mental and physical health.

    So whatever about a person's physical attributes and the effects on their physical and mental health; a bad attitude, a nasty attitude towards other people, will have a far more detrimental effect on that person than anything else about their physical appearance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    Candie wrote: »
    When will it be okay to harass people for drinking to excess or for smoking? We as a society are being neglectful of these folks health by allowing them to live in peace. It's like, SOOOO bad for their health that we should be doing them that favour. Ostracising them even, for their own sake, because anything else is pretending it's okay. And that's not ok!

    We do tell over- drinkers and smokers that's it's bad for their health. We do ostracise them. We're not allowed to say that to fat people in case we hurt their feelings. Anything that might even vaguely relate to appearance we're just not allowed to talk about because society is currently obsessed with it.
    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    People have argued on here before that smokers ARE ostracised (the smoking ban etc.), but I don't agree with that. Smoking is harmful to people other than the person smoking, unlike people being overweight (the exception being when an overweight person spills into the seat next to them on public transport and that's more an annoyance rather than being harmful), so creating an environment where non-smokers are free from that harm is not ostracising smokers, IMO.

    This is far too simplistic. Many diseases are directly attributable to overweight and obesity, which has a knock on effect on health spending. Add to this, normalising overweight and obesity has created an epidemic. It's not OK to not keep your weight in check if you can.
    RosieLion wrote: »
    Right, I'm a 16 year old so I haven't got all the worldy wisdom that most posters have.

    I don't care what age you are, I think your post was great.

    My opinion is that there is no need to have bigger than a size 16 in high street shops. People need to take responsibility for their weight, be that eating better, exercising or seeing a professional if they have exhausted these avenues without success. These "plus size" models going around talking about inner beauty bla bla bla, it's got nothing to do with your appearance at all. If you want to inevitably end up with diabetes, heart disease, losing limbs, vision and mobility then it really doesn't matter if you're happy with your body or not. Clothes will be the least of your worries.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Precious flower


    Banning certain sizes from shops is unrealistic, difficult to implement (girls on here have attested to the varied size of clothes they wear). Banning things never solves the problem, and it certainly doesn't help the issue. I agree that obesity, like anorexia needs to be tackled but this is far from the way to do it. Would you just have a blanket ban on cigarettes or alcohol? Of course not because everyone would freak and the black market would have a field day! Government initiatives need to be put in place and people need to be more educated about healthy eating and portion sizes, especially children and their parents. Parents play a crucial role in how they create the next generations relationship with food.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    A fantastic post RosieLion! One thing I've got from is this thread is denial. So many people are in denial about being overweight or obese. It is not an acceptable way to live your life. 90% of obese children will become obese adults, the cycle will never be broken. It's at epidemic levels and some people just don't care. So many people have sugar and salt addictions. Being overweight or obese will lead to severe health implications later in life. Believe me, I've seen this first hand with a close family member. We just cannot normalise obesity, we just can't and something will have to be done about it because the trends towards obesity are shocking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Frito


    Add to this, normalising overweight and obesity has created an epidemic.

    This is also far too simplistic.

    I'm not convinced that a relatively new phenomena of varying plus sizes in High st shops has created an epidemic that has been evolving throughout the post-war period.


  • Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A fantastic post RosieLion! One thing I've got from is this thread is denial. So many people are in denial about being overweight or obese. It is not an acceptable way to live your life. 90% of obese children will become obese adults, the cycle will never be broken.

    How do you know what posters are obese and who is in denial?

    People can have opinions without having the problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    Frito wrote: »
    This is also far too simplistic.

    I'm not convinced that a relatively new phenomena of varying plus sizes in High st shops has created an epidemic that has been evolving throughout the post-war period.

    OK, fair enough, but this normalising of it has massively contributed. But I don't think it has just been as far back as post war, look to the 60s, for example. Twiggy would've been the role model then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,177 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    "I really respect anything Jamelia says" said nobody, ever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    Candie wrote: »
    How do you know what posters are obese and who is in denial?

    People can have opinions without having the problem.

    I just can't defend someone who lives their life by overeating, for whatever reasons they have. I've seen plenty of that on this thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    There's normalising and then there's "extending basic human dignity". Overweight issues are often tied to self-esteem issues or an overly emotional relationship with food, being told "you're too fat to shop here, fatty" isn't going to help that.

    I don't really buy that it's concern for people's health. I'm quite slim, always have been. Yesterday I had a whole pizza for breakfast, coffee and cigarettes for lunch and a lasagne and wine for dinner. Not an atypical day, but I've never been given any sh1t over what I eat. If I sit down and stuff myself with unhealthy food at a group meal, I'll be told amn't I lucky/isn't it great I don't put weight on. Not "you're going to cost the health service a fortune eating like that, I'm a taxpayer you know!". I get a pass on an unhealthy lifestyle because of how I look, someone a couple of stone heavier than me who could be way healthier is made to feel like sh1t.


  • Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I just can't defend someone who lives their life by overeating, for whatever reasons they have. I've seen plenty of that on this thread.

    No, I asked you who was in denial.
    One thing I've got from is this thread is denial. So many people are in denial about being overweight or obese.

    I'm interested in this because I've seen posters mention a weight problem, but I haven't seen anyone in denial.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    Candie wrote: »
    No, I asked you who was in denial.



    I'm interested in this because I've seen posters mention a weight problem, but I haven't seen anyone in denial.

    I'm under no obligation to answer your question, that would also be 'shaming' which is frowned upon on this thread so much.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    I'm under no obligation to answer your question, that would also be 'shaming' which is frowned upon on this thread so much because I've realised I was wrong so I'm going to get snarky instead.

    Fixed that for you.


  • Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm under no obligation to answer your question, that would also be 'shaming' which is frowned upon on this thread so much.

    I think if you say you see a lot of people in denial then you should be able to back it up.

    'Shaming' you by asking you what you mean? Hilarious.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    Fixed that for you.

    Wrong about what exactly. Please don't fix my post either, I can do that myself. I stand by everything I've said on this thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Wrong about what exactly. Please don't fix my post either, I can do that myself. I stand by everything I've said on this thread.

    That this thread is full of overweight people in denial.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    I just can't defend someone who lives their life by overeating, for whatever reasons they have. I've seen plenty of that on this thread.

    Just curious, have you any vices at all?


  • Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wrong about what exactly. Please don't fix my post either, I can do that myself. I stand by everything I've said on this thread.

    But refuse to give examples to back up your assertions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    I get a pass on an unhealthy lifestyle because of how I look, someone a couple of stone heavier than me who could be way healthier is made to feel like sh1t.

    Fair enough but this sounds like a special case. I was out with a gang over Christmas and some dope that I don't know commented on the Facebook photos afterwards that I looked like I needed a sandwich. I get this kind of rubbish a lot, usually from people who are overweight or obese. So glad for them that commenting on my healthy appearance and lifestyle makes them feel smug. I have a BMI of 21, go to the gym, walk the dog daily and eat properly. Sometimes I eat junk, sometimes I get drunk but I am careful to do things in moderation. If people think that my average weight, which I take care to maintain (without too much difficulty I might add), is too skinny then this is a problem.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    Candie wrote: »
    But refuse to give examples to back up your assertions.

    I can observe that I want to observe. I can have my own views and opinions, just like you can. I'm not going through a whole thread word for word to quote this and quote that. I have better things to do with my time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Fair enough but this sounds like a special case. I was out with a gang over Christmas and some dope that I don't know commented on the Facebook photos afterwards that I looked like I needed a sandwich. I get this kind of rubbish a lot, usually from people who are overweight or obese. So glad for them that commenting on my healthy appearance and lifestyle makes them feel smug. I have a BMI of 21, go to the gym, walk the dog daily and eat properly. Sometimes I eat junk, sometimes I get drunk but I am careful to do things in moderation. If people think that my average weight, which I take care to maintain (without too much difficulty I might add), is too skinny then this is a problem.

    So people giving unwarranted comments on your weight pisses you off?

    Yes, I can see how that might be annoying alright....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    RosieLion wrote: »
    Additionally, she basically says the same thing about unhealthy skinny sizes. Yet no one is commenting on that

    To be honest, her brief mention of very small sizes just seems like tokenism, most of her focus is on the larger sizes.

    Oh, and the media is not normalising obesity. You see the odd cosmetic ad cynically trying to cash in on "real" women but for the most part, the ideal pushed in almost every sphere of the media is slender is good, slender is ideal.

    As for what the high street stocks, well, they're stocking what sells. Believe me, if they over-order the size 22s, nobody is going to try to fatten up to fit into the surplus. The shops order accordingly for the current buying public. Size 22 (for example) is never to be a goal for people to aspire to.


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