Jamelia: 'High street shops shouldn't sell plus size clothing'

Shenshen · 22-04-2015 10:36AM

sabat wrote: »

They definitely shouldn't sell certain garments in any size over 14, ie leggings, sleeveless tops, lycra dresses etc. There's way too much flab on show ruining the views this weather.

Leggins and sleeveless tops - ok, that would leave me naked for my daily cycle.

bjork · 22-04-2015 10:37AM

Shenshen wrote: »

I'm not sure who she is, nor why her opinion should matter - unless she own a high street fashion chain?

I can't even say what size I am - I've got clothes in my wardrobe from size 14 to 22, and interestingly enough they all fit me about that same way. It usually depends on how they're cut around the chest, I often have to go for larger sizes to fit the ladies in.

As I understand it, the fashion world regards size 14 to be puls size - that would leave the majority of people in the country having to go to "specialist shops".

And I seriously object to that notion that fat people need to be made to feel awkward at any given opportunity. Are there really people out there thinking that making someone feel miserable will help them in any way?

I posted this in the Trivial Annoyances thread the other day.

In the fashion Industry a US Size 8 / UK size 10 is where plus sizes start :eek:

(according to cosmoO

rainbow kirby · 22-04-2015 10:38AM

awec wrote: »

Really? Who is size 16 and not fat?

Female rugby players who are around 6ft and built, that's about it.

CarpeDiem85 · 22-04-2015 10:38AM

Shenshen wrote: »

So we should deny them clothes as a punishment?

I'm not saying that but, for example, when I watched that show last night they were celebrating obesity when they should have been promoting a healthy and fit lifestyle. It's the fact that's it being normalised just makes me sad.
One shop sold these Lycra shorts that you would wear under a dress so that your legs and knees wouldn't rub against each other. How is that good for you! You'll have severe joint problems in years to come.

somesoldiers · 22-04-2015 10:39AM

I saw something on tv about the disparity between the clothes sizes in shops. where for instance a 12 in M&S might be a lot more generous than a 12 in Harvey Nichols thereby fooling people into thinking that M&S clothes look better on them. I have often heard the women in my life talking about clothes from shop X being a better fit than from shop Y

eviltwin · 22-04-2015 10:39AM

awec wrote: »

Really? Who is size 16 and not fat?

Some people are physically bigger than others. You can't judge the health of an individual by their dress size. I'm size 12 but I'm overweight. Am I better or worse than a person who is size 16, no I'm exactly the same.

whatismyname · 22-04-2015 10:39AM

awec wrote: »

Really? Who is size 16 and not fat?

They referred to obesity vs fatness, not quite the same thing, for a start.

hoodwinked · 22-04-2015 10:41AM

sabat wrote: »

They definitely shouldn't sell certain garments in any size over 14, ie leggings, sleeveless tops, lycra dresses etc. There's way too much flab on show ruining the views this weather.

thats not a sizing/clothing thing, it's a person's mentality thing you can be a size 14 and not overweight and you can be a size 12 and overweight.

i have two friends who'd be a size "14" one will buy clothes (including leggings and dresses) in a size 14 and she looks great when she wears them,

the other one however insists she's a size 10 like me and will squeeze into a size 10 pair of jeans/leggings and leave the rest of her hang over the top, or stretch the leggings until they are practically see through.

we need to stop worrying about what size we "should" be and start dressing for the size we are,

kylith · 22-04-2015 10:41AM

awec wrote: »

Really? Who is size 16 and not fat?

Those of us with large bosoms

sabat · 22-04-2015 10:44AM

Shenshen wrote: »

Leggins and sleeveless tops - ok, that would leave me naked for my daily cycle.

How about this look?

https://fitisafeministissue.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/4de83-looknohands.jpg?w=400&h=378

The Dark Side · 22-04-2015 10:49AM

Plazaman wrote: »

So if the plus size ladies can't buy clothes in their sizes, what are they supposed to wear Jamelia?

A mumu?

Shenshen · 22-04-2015 10:54AM

sabat wrote: »

How about this look?

https://fitisafeministissue.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/4de83-looknohands.jpg?w=400&h=378

:eek:

Well, at least it might scare drivers into actually giving me a bit of space when overtaking me

Magenta · 22-04-2015 10:57AM

Streetwalker wrote: »

Who?

Is Google down?

Shenshen · 22-04-2015 10:58AM

CarpeDiem85 wrote: »

I'm not saying that but, for example, when I watched that show last night they were celebrating obesity when they should have been promoting a healthy and fit lifestyle. It's the fact that's it being normalised just makes me sad.
One shop sold these Lycra shorts that you would wear under a dress so that your legs and knees wouldn't rub against each other. How is that good for you! You'll have severe joint problems in years to come.

It's hardly the fashion industry that is "normalising" this, though, is it?
Yes, obesity is a problem. Yes, it needs to be addressed. But should we start that with a holier-than-thou attittude when it comes to clothes?
Or should we rather educate people, teach them long-lost skills like cooking and support them when they try and make an effort getting some exercise rather than ridiculing them?

Just a thought.

x Purple Pawprints x · 22-04-2015 11:09AM

whatismyname wrote:

I'm not sure what the means by plus size as such, given that some parts of fashion / modelling regard really low sizes (e.g. 14 upwards).

I thought it was 12 and up, but someone else just said that 8 - 10 is considered plus size now. In that case, I've gone from a size 18 to a size 10 and I'm still considered plus size. How does that make sense?

eviltwin wrote:

Not all size 16 people are obese and you can wear a size 12 and still be overweight, I am. I know what she means but people need to have clothes what do you do if your not able to buy clothing?

I'm a size ten and my BMI is still in the overweight category.

Shenshen wrote:

And I seriously object to that notion that fat people need to be made to feel awkward at any given opportunity. Are there really people out there thinking that making someone feel miserable will help them in any way?

Tbh I think it works both ways. I don't think anyone has the right to judge another person by their weight, fat or thin.

walkingshadow wrote:

She is hot, though.

Yeah, because that's what matters. :rolleyes:

To answer the original post, I think it's ridiculous to suggest that plus size clothes should only be sold on specialist shops. People that are overweight feel insecure and ostracised as it is without having to shop for clothing in a specialist store. I know what some people are going to say, that losing weight is the way to go and all that jazz, but I still don't think specialist shops would be a good idea.

RobertKK · 22-04-2015 11:14AM

They would be arrested for public indecency if they had no clothes to wear.

whatdoicare · 22-04-2015 11:19AM

Just so people can get an idea - these women all weigh the same but have vastly different body shapes and dress sizes, so one womans size 10 is anothers size 14 :

awec · 22-04-2015 11:19AM

eviltwin wrote: »

Some people are physically bigger than others. You can't judge the health of an individual by their dress size. I'm size 12 but I'm overweight. Am I better or worse than a person who is size 16, no I'm exactly the same.

Dunno. Don't think I've ever seen anyone who wears size 16 clothes who isn't clearly fat.

I'll believe you though, but I would definitely say it's an exception rather than a rule.

Tayla · 22-04-2015 11:25AM

somesoldiers wrote: »

I saw something on tv about the disparity between the clothes sizes in shops. where for instance a 12 in M&S might be a lot more generous than a 12 in Harvey Nichols thereby fooling people into thinking that M&S clothes look better on them. I have often heard the women in my life talking about clothes from shop X being a better fit than from shop Y

It's called vanity sizing and it can make it very hard to find clothes if you're a smaller size, before shops started selling size 6 clothes I was always an 8, next thing suddenly they were all too big for me even though I hadn't lost weight, then they introduced a size 6 and bam i'd lost a dress size.
Now some shops have a size 4 and I fit into those, that would be the American size zero that they talk about, I am in no way, shape or form a size zero, it's just ridiculous.

Greenmachine · 22-04-2015 11:26AM

Lady is entitled to her opinion, even if it is daft. If someone continually court controversy with their opinions, the tide can easily turn on them via social media.
There seems to be unhealthy attitude all around us. It just seems more endemic in women circles than in men's. Variously we have skinny shaming, fat shaming.
Where either is a result of unhealthy behavior by an individual, surely we need to start by treating the individual, rather than the symptom. This approach should have happened decades ago to be fair. Now the issue of obesity is actually pretty normalised. The TV show "Supersize Wars", really showed this, and showed how pigeon holed peoples mentalities can be. One of the plus sized women, with a large social media following, started an exercise program and lost some weight, she received some seriously backlash and was more or less told she was betraying her principles. You can love yourself but still embrace change.

Mallagio · 22-04-2015 11:29AM

Who's Jamelia?

22-04-2015 11:33AM

Shenshen wrote: »

I'm not sure who she is, nor why her opinion should matter - unless she own a high street fashion chain?

I can't even say what size I am - I've got clothes in my wardrobe from size 14 to 22, and interestingly enough they all fit me about that same way. It usually depends on how they're cut around the chest, I often have to go for larger sizes to fit the ladies in.

As I understand it, the fashion world regards size 14 to be puls size - that would leave the majority of people in the country having to go to "specialist shops".

And I seriously object to that notion that fat people need to be made to feel awkward at any given opportunity. Are there really people out there thinking that making someone feel miserable will help them in any way?

Is this not how smokers are treated?

We must stop pretending fat people are no harm to society. I know what the person is trying to say; that it should not be treated as normal to be obese. Also, why is it "plus size" for women, but XXXLarge for men?

Generic Dreadhead · 22-04-2015 11:33AM

Women average dress size and what is considered "plus size" differs greatly by country.

(Ball park figures last time i checked) In Ireland it's 12-14, in most of mainland Europe it's 10-12, in some places it's 8-10.

The sun clearly plays a part in that though.

Kat97 · 22-04-2015 11:33AM

Its so irritating that the sizes vary from shop to shop. In some I am a 6 and others a 10. I even remember once I bought a dress and at size 12 it just about fit.

My BMI states that I am underweight by quite a bit and my dress size can vary from 6-10. From my experience I don't think you can totally tell if someone is overweight just by their dress size.. There are lots of other contributing factors like height and overall build.

hoodwinked · 22-04-2015 11:38AM

Kat97 wrote: »

Its so irritating that the sizes vary from shop to shop. In some I am a 6 and others a 10. I even remember once I bought a dress and at size 12 it just about fit.

yeah a few years ago i tried on a pair of size 10 jeans in a-wear, they fit so perfectly i picked up a second size 10 pair on my way back to the till,

got home and a few days later when i went to wear the second pair they were so loose a slight tug would send them down to my ankles, when i put both (with the size 10 labels clearly visible) side by side one pair was sticking out by a good few centimeters despite them being the same jean from the same brand from the same shop in the same size. :eek:

22-04-2015 11:41AM

speedboatchase wrote: »

I hate the term 'fat-shaming'. You should be ashamed to be fat. You're literally walking around displaying your lack of self-discipline and gluttony for the whole world. And it's not like obesity happens overnight. It takes years of commitment to become and remain fat. People don't even realise how big they are anymore, or how much they're overfeeding their children for a life of misery and diabetes: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/30/parents-of-obese-children-unable-to-recognise-child-is-overweight

People like the OP know that shops won't ban plus-size (even that term is ridiculously sensitive...) clothing because normalising obesity is a great way to boost sales. Yet if the high street decided to sell size 0 clothing they would be going crazy, claiming it sets a bad example and that teenagers will feel pressured to follow some unrealistic blah blah blah.

Obviously, however, shops are under no moral obligation to encourage shoppers to become healthier, so despite Jamelia's words, nothing will change. Waistlines will get bigger, as will contouring, spanx, apps that alter your body in photos, 'waist trainers', and every other delusional trend that has followed society's timidity in confronting obesity.

Most people who are fat are ashamed of it. Believe me. I've been fat. I was miserable.

But let me tell you why I was fat. I had lost my family in a car accident. I went sick from work. I was put on anti depressants. I didn't want to leave the house. I didn't want to cook dinner. I didn't want to go for a nice walk by the sea. And the fatter I got, the less I wanted to go out to do shopping. The more anti depressants I needed. The less I wanted to go for that nice walk by the sea. I was fat, and I had so much else going on in my head, that being fat only added to my misery.

It wasn't self discipline and gluttony. It was depression and medication.

So people get fat, they get fat for all sorts of reason, some of them are only codding themselves that they're genetically built that way, and some of them are only codding themselves that they have a slower metabolism than most, but some of those people are like that for other reasons that you and I will never know about.

I read a post from a poster here once who purposely put on weight because she had been sexually abused, so she actively sought to make herself unattractive.

So for those reasons, I try not to judge people who don't fit in to my ideal little box. I wish they would lose weight, I really do, but only because I know that there's unlikely anyone who's truly happy about the fact they're fat.

Thank god I got out the other side of all that and got fit, but I'm a very strong willed person. Not everyone is lucky enough to have that trait.

(and btw, size 0 is the American size. It's a UK 4. Any high street shop I've been in sell a size 6, many sell a size 4).

Penny Tration · 22-04-2015 11:42AM

hoodwinked wrote: »

yeah a few years ago i tried on a pair of size 10 jeans in a-wear, they fit so perfectly i picked up a second size 10 pair on my way back to the till,

got home and a few days later when i went to wear the second pair they were so loose a slight tug would send them down to my ankles, when i put both (with the size 10 labels clearly visible) side by side one pair was sticking out by a good few centimeters despite them being the same jean from the same brand from the same shop in the same size. :eek:

I have three pairs of the exact same jeans from Penneys (yeah, I know penneys jeans are crap). Same colour, same design, exact same jeans. Three different sizes, all of which fit me.

kylith · 22-04-2015 11:43AM

hoodwinked wrote: »

yeah a few years ago i tried on a pair of size 10 jeans in a-wear, they fit so perfectly i picked up a second size 10 pair on my way back to the till,

got home and a few days later when i went to wear the second pair they were so loose a slight tug would send them down to my ankles, when i put both (with the size 10 labels clearly visible) side by side one pair was sticking out by a good few centimeters despite them being the same jean from the same brand from the same shop in the same size. :eek:

I've found exactly the same! One pair fit lovely, the other pair wouldn't go over my thighs. The same cut from the same shop. The only difference was the colour.

whatismyname · 22-04-2015 11:56AM

Deleted User wrote: »

But let me tell you why I was fat. I had lost my family in a car accident. I went sick from work. I was put on anti depressants. I didn't want to leave the house. I didn't want to cook dinner. I didn't want to go for a nice walk by the sea. And the fatter I got, the less I wanted to go out to do shopping. The more anti depressants I needed. The less I wanted to go for that nice walk by the sea. I was fat, and I had so much else going on in my head, that being fat only added to my misery.

It wasn't self discipline and gluttony. It was depression and medication.

Thank you whoopsadaisydoodles.

Some of my reasons are similar, and they are that reasons, not 'excuses' as people are so quick to label things. I'm not excusing it at any point, but there are reasons behind things .

It stuns me sometimes how black and white many people are about stuff, and how so many seem to lack the ability to see beyond their own circumstances and experiences.

22-04-2015 11:57AM

I'm sure this opinion won't go down well, but I think she has a point somewhat. Remember when there was an outrage over "size zero" clothes, because it promoted unrealistic body image and unhealthy body type. It's the same for plus size clothing, though what exactly constitutes as plus size is something I'm not going to debate on here. Having said that, the larger end of plus size is promoting as unhealthy patterns as size zero, just on the opposite side of the extreme completely.

Jamelia: 'High street shops shouldn't sell plus size clothing'

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