Students get academics to write their essays for €50 an hour

Tomagotchye · 20-04-2015 06:07PM

A lot of exam hate going on. Exams are actually a good thing. When done correctly they give a good indication of how people can apply and adapt knowledge on the spot/within a limit. Drawing up ideas/technical knowledge quickly and effectively. What I hated was that they'd give you "hints" or keep the layout the same each year or recycle questions from previous years so if you looked back you'd be "rewarded." That defeats the entire purpose.

LenaClaire · 20-04-2015 06:13PM

In my course it was an automatic fail of that module if you plagiarized and an automatic expulsion if you were caught a second time.

Wompa1 · 20-04-2015 06:23PM

LenaClaire wrote: »

In my course it was an automatic fail of that module if you plagiarized and an automatic expulsion if you were caught a second time.

Hard to prove plagiarizism if it's original work they are buying.

Wompa1 · 20-04-2015 06:26PM

Tomagotchye wrote: »

A lot of exam hate going on. Exams are actually a good thing. When done correctly they give a good indication of how people can apply and adapt knowledge on the spot/within a limit. Drawing up ideas/technical knowledge quickly and effectively. What I hated was that they'd give you "hints" or keep the layout the same each year or recycle questions from previous years so if you looked back you'd be "rewarded." That defeats the entire purpose.

Yip, I remember I blogged about that before and got contacted by some lecturer in Ireland, he\she had their own blog too. They stayed anonymous for obvious reasons and had a few posts of the many shortcomings of the Institution we have in Ireland. The "hints" was a major topic on their site. I guess they don't do that in every other country...

I got tips from a lecturer in 2nd year and then tips from two other lecturers in 3rd and 4th year. But where I went, you didn't really need the tips. The previous years exam papers had predictable patterns. Every once in a while you'd get f'ked if you relied on the papers, because the lecturer would throw a swerve at ya. But for the most part, it was very easy.

cloud493 · 20-04-2015 06:32PM

I would, but I wouldn't do any better even if I got someone to cheat for me. Plus whose got €50 for that :eek:

RedPandaDan · 20-04-2015 06:36PM

Not surprising. Really, for a lot of people having a degree is far more important than knowing that material. As more and more people have degrees, the worse and worse you look for not having one, even if the job you are looking to get doesn't need one.

Jesus Wept · 20-04-2015 06:49PM

Wompa1 wrote: »

The only way to fix this is by investing more into our third level education. Who's with me!?

Seriously, I wouldn't put much stock in a degree, masters or PhD. It's proof that the person can memorize enough to pass exams. In Ireland, going to college\university isn't even a huge sacrifice, it's the good life.

Google have been going through different hiring practices for years. The infamous 7 interviews and the stupid personality tests, that they have recently admitted were useless.

Recently, They've started to hire more people without degrees. They beleive people who didn't attend a third level institute have a different way of thinking, approach problems in a different way and bring less bad habits with them.

Any links to these degreeless jobs google have?

L'Enfer du Nord · 20-04-2015 06:57PM

smash wrote: »

In the long run it'll bite them in the ass anyway. They'll get to the real world and they wont have a clue what they're doing and as such, wont be able to hold down a job.

Dishonesty and a willingness to pass the work of others off as your own will unfortunately help many to advance in their careers. Being a born liar certainly helps in an interview situation. As for people being found out, when this does happen it's usually too much trouble to do anything about it. Chancers getting caught out and paying the price is really less common in an workplace environment that you might think.

gutenberg · 20-04-2015 07:37PM

I'm at a university in the UK, and it's an acknowledged problem here too. However, what's interestung is that the research into the phenomenon here, in so much as they can investigate this, is that it's quite a problem among international students. It's simultaneously a problem of language difficulties- some simply don't have the required level of English, despite taking TOEFL tests etc., but also the academic culture of their home countries, where plagiarism and repeating/copying the words/argument of an 'authority' is accepted.

hatrickpatrick · 20-04-2015 07:43PM

folamh wrote: »

Funnily, in my course, I felt that too much time was given to teaching students how to write essays. Even through to fecking second and third year, wasting tutorial time that could've been spent learning the actual content.

I can see how that would be irritating, but can you imagine spending three years getting full marks for discussing audio production by writing "We used delay at 328ms and a phaser effect synced to the master tempo when recording the songs", and then in fourth year suddenly being told "You can't write in the first person, you have to avoid referring to who recorded the songs and write it as if the songs were just recorded on their own"?

In my view that's pretty unfair. All through first to third year the emphasis was on writing every report from your own point of view, and now they're telling us that this is precisely what you're not supposed to do for the final essays.

Again I'm not saying I'd consider doing this, mostly because I don't really care enough to bother, but I certainly find it ridiculous that I might fail my finals even when my research and facts are 100% spot on, just because I couldn't get my head around a never-before-required writing style in six months, after three years of doing well writing with my own style.

Tarzana2 · 20-04-2015 07:56PM

Tomagotchye wrote: »

A lot of exam hate going on. Exams are actually a good thing. When done correctly they give a good indication of how people can apply and adapt knowledge on the spot/within a limit. Drawing up ideas/technical knowledge quickly and effectively.

Agreed. I think people are too quick to put down people who do well in their exams. "Oh, they just swotted, they don't really get it."

Dunno about anyone else, but I need to understand stuff thoroughly to be able to talk about it in exams. And exams are often far from straightforward, requiring you to think laterally to answer questions.

Hate "tips" too, but I've learned to ignore them down the years as they often don't even happen! I remember for LC Biology, I was aiming for an A1 and I studied EVERYTHING. I studied the tips, not because they were tips, but because they were part of the course. Not one of the tips came up, not even one. I got my A1.

LenaClaire · 20-04-2015 07:57PM

Wompa1 wrote: »

Hard to prove plagiarizism if it's original work they are buying.

What they found with some of those bought essays is that they are used multiple times. There are tools that they can upload student's papers and compare them to each other, along with on-line and other reference tools.

Wompa1 · 20-04-2015 08:11PM

LenaClaire wrote: »

What they found with some of those bought essays is that they are used multiple times. There are tools that they can upload student's papers and compare them to each other, along with on-line and other reference tools.

Yip, there's also ways to see if something is copied and pasted. If what they buy is not actually original for them then they are getting screwed.

Wompa1 · 20-04-2015 08:13PM

The Rodgers wrote: »

Any links to these degreeless jobs google have?

Not specific links to jobs. I'm at work, don't want to go looking at job sites, I'm a contractor so that'll throw me into the sh1ts but here's an article about it from Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikaandersen/2014/04/07/how-google-picks-new-employees-hint-its-not-about-your-degree/

kippy · 20-04-2015 08:18PM

limitedIQ wrote: »

i'm not so sure, you are not going to use most of the stuff you learn anyway and if you need to know something specific just google it. A lot of jobs ask for a Degree but once you are in the role you get training, learn as you go etc.

Remember studying for exams and the teacher saying your books would be there in the exam so you have to learn all this stuff ? I thought that was ridiculous because your books are there in the REAL world.

Id agree. It does depend on the qualification and career path but in general a lot of what you do in college will never be of use to you. There are lots of people out the working away in good jobs and who are very competent at what they do who probably never set foot in a third level institution.
I dont agree with cheating mind but I dont believe you need a college paper to get on in life.

kippy · 20-04-2015 08:19PM

LenaClaire wrote: »

What they found with some of those bought essays is that they are used multiple times. There are tools that they can upload student's papers and compare them to each other, along with on-line and other reference tools.

Yep and most colleges use these tools nowadays as well.

steddyeddy · 20-04-2015 08:36PM

Wompa1 wrote: »

The only way to fix this is by investing more into our third level education. Who's with me!?

Seriously, I wouldn't put much stock in a degree, masters or PhD. It's proof that the person can memorize enough to pass exams. In Ireland, going to college\university isn't even a huge sacrifice, it's the good life.

Google have been going through different hiring practices for years. The infamous 7 interviews and the stupid personality tests, that they have recently admitted were useless.

Recently, They've started to hire more people without degrees. They beleive people who didn't attend a third level institute have a different way of thinking, approach problems in a different way and bring less bad habits with them.

Jesus man a PhD is not about memory!

Hans Bricks · 20-04-2015 09:02PM

These essays and written assignments aren't worth a monkeys nipple. I've done more than enough, in fact too many of them to date. Same regurgitated waffle relating to a subject area with fancy articulation thrown in and a few Harvard referenced style quotes you didn't really bother reading anyway. I'll never really apply the waffle I've written over the years in the real world, just like I won't be using Vogel's method of approximation or tableaus with the Simplex Method.

Level 7 & 8 degrees are just a means to getting that starter job and setting yourself up for a comfy career which pays well.

Wompa1 · 20-04-2015 10:16PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Jesus man a PhD is not about memory!

That may been a it too daming. Some PhDs do deserve respect. Others.....ahhhh...not so much. There's many PhDs with research based Thesis that are utter muck and result in the person getting their PhD. Personally, now I only have insight into one Irish University but the process is hugely flawed. I know someboy who used sample groups for their study, they had their hypothesis going into the study that they wanted to prove. The results from the study showed there was deliniation..so rather than state that, they cut the people who throw the result off out of the study...

No way for the University to see that, people can just omit data.

Don't worry though, I'm sure in a few years, another student will do a study that will show that one to be incorrect and the circle jerk will continue.

A PhD is a test of attrition, if you are making a sacrifice to get your PhD then you earned and your deserve it. If you did well in exams in your undergrad (which is a memory test) and got accepted and then saw it through...Do you think the output from that person is of a high quality?

Part of the flaws in Ireland though, is the insignificant amount of publications coming out of the country in terms of research. There's a lot of senior academics that are sitting on their arses

mickstupp · 21-04-2015 06:53AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I can see how that would be irritating, but can you imagine spending three years getting full marks for discussing audio production by writing "We used delay at 328ms and a phaser effect synced to the master tempo when recording the songs", and then in fourth year suddenly being told "You can't write in the first person, you have to avoid referring to who recorded the songs and write it as if the songs were just recorded on their own"?

In my view that's pretty unfair. All through first to third year the emphasis was on writing every report from your own point of view, and now they're telling us that this is precisely what you're not supposed to do for the final essays.

My god, the difficulty of switching from 1st person to 3rd! And to have to make that change in only 6 months! Shocking. Nay, terrifying!

Oh, wait, hang on, you said 'All through first to third year the emphasis was on writing every report...', so you're already well aware how to do it. Possibly because it's not hard.

titan18 · 21-04-2015 08:05AM

I've always considered college a question of work ethic. Getting someone else to do your work doesn't say a lot for that in someone.

Most people don't even do them properly anyway. You just need to do them better than the next guy to get a good mark. If people actually did proper research before writing the essays, they'd learn a lot more, instead of waiting for it to be spoon fed to them.

steddyeddy · 21-04-2015 01:18PM

There's people paying people to write their thesis for them. Zero respect for these people and they shouldn't be in college.

gandalf · 21-04-2015 01:29PM

hfallada wrote: »

The most shocking part of the article is that a third level institution is only implementing anti-plagiarism software in 2015. Everything in my college has to be uploaded to anti-plagiarism software site to check that our work is original. If you caught plagiarising its a trip to college dean.

Err DCU use Turnitin for all their assignments. The missus completed a course there last year and it was the bane of her life because it was always overloaded and took several attempts to submit her assignments.

I did a course in Griffith College and they used it as well.

TBH cheating like this does no one any good. You may get away with it and get your grade but when you go and try and use your "knowledge" in the workplace it will become quite obvious to any employers that you are about as useful as a chocolate teapot if you gained your grades by getting others to do the work.

21-04-2015 01:41PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

To give you one example, they explicitly told us the other day not to write in the first person but ALSO not to write in the passive voice. Isn't that a complete contradiction?

Just so you know - no, it isn't.

The passive voice is putting the object first and thus potentially removing agency / blame from the subject (or removing it entirely). "Mistakes were made" being the classic passive construction that is used as a cop out when you don't want to identify who made the mistake.

The first person is "I"

"I think Enda Kenny made a mistake" - first person
"Enda Kenny made a mistake" - third person
"A mistake was made by Enda Kenny" - passive

the_syco · 21-04-2015 04:29PM

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Chancers getting caught out and paying the price is really less common in an workplace environment that you might think.

You'll find the chancers who can't work often get pally with management :mad:

Right Turn Clyde · 21-04-2015 04:33PM

On my degree, 80% of the modules had no continuous assessment. It was just turn up on exam day and walk the walk. It used to drive me crazy because I never felt like my exam performance was a true reflection of what I actually learned, but now I can see its benefits. Everyone that was awarded that degree really earned it.

Tarzana2 · 21-04-2015 05:36PM

The Rodgers wrote: »

Any links to these degreeless jobs google have?

Colour me dubious too. When I look at the Linkedin profiles of Google employees in Ireland, not only do they have degrees, but they tend to be top of their class and often have a Masters too.

Wompa1 · 21-04-2015 06:00PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Colour me dubious too. When I look at the Linkedin profiles of Google employees in Ireland, not only do they have degrees, but they tend to be top of their class and often have a Masters too.

I have a degree, I was contacted by Google about a job in Robotics at their HQ in Mountain View. I asked them, why me? I don't have any experience in Robotics and my Degree isn't even in programming. The guy said they were looking for the right people, not necessarily those that have specific in that specific field.

I checked the number out afterwards, it did seem to eminate from Google and checked the guy out on Linkedin, he did work for Google. I turned him down, said it would be really interesting but I have a good thing going already.

I'm friends with the CEO of a Startup company in Seattle. He looks for people that went to US Ivy League schools OR people who have shown passion and drive in other areas. He had people from Yale, MIT, Berkely and Harvard working for him. But he also has a guy that doesn't have a Degree at all, as one of his senior Engineers. His Product Manager didn't finish his degree. He also was not studying at an Ivy League school but he went working for some very large companies at a young age and was representing clients at large conferences and the like.

But maybe it's just an America thing. Since an education isn't affordable for all.

In Ireland, every Tom, Dick and Harry has a college education. Doesn't mean it's their education that's getting them hired. I was involved in the hiring process for a few large companies. I never gave much of a sh1t about education.

But I also work in IT...what somebody learned in college is usually obsolete by the time they graduate anyways.

artanevilla · 21-04-2015 06:23PM

I'm a student and there's no way I could afford to pay that much for an essay.

Tomagotchye · 21-04-2015 07:08PM

People saying that things you learn aren't worth anything in a job. This is a lie. Maybe you do not use the knowledge consciously but it's possible you do unconsciously. Sometimes learning the theory helps to better understand the practice and vice versa. Regardless, it's not necessarily about what you learn (in some disciplines it's about how you learn it). I did history and no I didn't learn anything useful for my current job but I have to say the information retention skills I developed doing exams, and the research skills I developed doing essays and thesis were very handy in adapting to new fields easily because I knew exactly what to learn and how to apply it - unlike many others who learned bits and parts, here and there.

On the plus side I had a knowledge of where we had been and where we are going. Learning about my country from an unbias perspective has helped me to treat all news with a bias apparel which is certainly something I would encourage in a world where everyone falls into line with political ideology. Education isn't about preparing you for work (anyone can work)...it's about preparing you for life/society with the benefit of having a skill for work.

Equally, just because you learn something that isn't of "worth" doesn't mean it doesn't have value. I'm tired of students thinking their above it. This is a major problem and something I'm guilty of myself. Information is power, you can trade it and you can use it.

Students get academics to write their essays for €50 an hour

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