The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

PopePalpatine · 08-03-2015 02:48PM

Normally I don't read Sindo columns, but I'll make an exception for this: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/we-led-the-fight-for-family-values-31049258.html

j80ezgvc3p92xu · 16-04-2015 02:32PM

Do you actually have any arguments against marriage equality or is it just hyperbole and vague references about the consequences?

You try to hide behind the veil of Christianity but your views are in no way representative of the decent Christians in this country.

Ok let's see what the Bible has to say about homosexuality:

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

This is a bit extreme coming from the OT, undoubtedly has to be interpreted in the light of the times and the discipline that had to be imposed. Moving on...

Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

Again OT, but the message is being hammered home.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)

NT, same message. Homosexuality is a big no-no.

Jude 7
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment.

NT. I could go on and on. Nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality approved, nowhere are homosexuals allowed to marry. Most people in Ireland declare themselves Christians, therefore it is beyond me how this referendum is even allowed to take place. How can you possibly interpret the Bible to allow gays to marry? The amount of back flips and Orwellian double-speak you would have to do to reach such a conclusion is mind boggling.

As far as I'm aware any research that purports to prove that homosexuality is genetic is INCONCLUSIVE. There is on the other hand a large body of work which shows that homosexuality is the result of arrested development/psychological issues (http://www.narth.com/2011/07/presidential-politics-places-narth-issues-on-front-page/). As neither theory is effectively proven/disproven, both should be given weight.

Notice that many homosexuals themselves advocate against gay marriage or child adoption - case in point being Dolce and Goabbana. There are many interesting studies done on the phenomenon of the "gay lifestyle" - http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02 . Again, something to mull around the old noggin.

I apologize for the sudden change in font. Still not as tech savvy as I like to believe I am.

PopePalpatine · 16-04-2015 02:35PM

Bridget Whining Knitter wrote: »

As far as I'm aware any research that purports to prove that homosexuality is genetic is INCONCLUSIVE. There is on the other hand a large body of work which shows that homosexuality is the result of arrested development/psychological issues (http://www.narth.com/2011/07/presidential-politics-places-narth-issues-on-front-page/). As neither theory is effectively proven/disproven, both should be given weight.

Notice that many homosexuals themselves advocate against gay marriage or child adoption - case in point being Dolce and Goabbana. There are many interesting studies done on the phenomenon of the "gay lifestyle" - http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02 . Again, something to mull around the old noggin.

Citing NARTH and the Family Research Council...I might as well ask Anders Breivik about multiculturalism or Neckbeard Central Return of Kings about rape and sexual assault laws.

hfallada · 16-04-2015 02:48PM

Bridget Whining Knitter wrote: »

Notice that many homosexuals themselves advocate against gay marriage or child adoption - case in point being Dolce and Goabbana. There are many interesting studies done on the phenomenon of the "gay lifestyle" - http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02 . Again, something to mull around the old noggin.

The Dolce and Gabbana owners tried to find a surrogate when they were together. So I dont think they are in the position to talk about gay relationships. And since one if one persons views, take as the views of a majority?

Why would someone choose to be gay? There is countless countries in this world, where gay people are killed. Gay people are often disowned by their families. They be can fired or evicted from their rentals in some states in the US. Why would someone choose all of this? They dont as its who they are. I imagine you have met plenty of gay people without realising. Your cousin or your children might be gay, and you dont know it. Your local priest might be gay!

I feel sorry for people who cant think for themselves and just takes a book belief on morality. Jesus wanted us to question everything and did not disown anyone. If he was best friends with a Mary Magdalene, who had a career that isnt even acceptable in the most liberal countries now. Why would he have had an issue with gay people?

homer911 · 16-04-2015 02:52PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

but your views are in no way representative of the decent Christians in this country.

Who appointed you their spokesperson and how do you determine what a "decent Christian" is?

What proportion of your decent Christians actually know or understand what the Bible has to say about homosexuality?

I'm reminded of the time Moses went up the mountain to receive the Ten Commandments and in his absence, the Israelites decided they knew best and made a golden calf
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2032

The public gets what the public deserves..

homer911 · 16-04-2015 02:56PM

hfallada wrote: »

Why would he have had an issue with gay people?

Back to this again! God loves EVERYONE (even you!). He has no issue with gay people. It is the practice of homosexual acts which is anathema to God.

lazygal · 16-04-2015 03:05PM

homer911 wrote: »

Back to this again! God loves EVERYONE (even you!). He has no issue with gay people. It is the practice of homosexual acts which is anathema to God.

What are homosexual acts?

W123-80's · 16-04-2015 03:07PM

Bridget Whining Knitter wrote: »

Ok let's see what the Bible has to say about homosexuality:

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

This is a bit extreme coming from the OT, undoubtedly has to be interpreted in the light of the times and the discipline that had to be imposed. Moving on...

Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

Again OT, but the message is being hammered home.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)

NT, same message. Homosexuality is a big no-no.

Jude 7
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment.

How is this conclusive and/or relevant to the referendum?

As far as I'm aware any research that purports to prove that homosexuality is genetic is INCONCLUSIVE.

When scientific research is not conclusive..??

What the bible says does not matter a jot to this referendum. It is an inconclusive book.

Delirium · 16-04-2015 03:16PM

MOD NOTE

Posts about Christianity and homosexuality move to mega-thread.

Peig Sayers · 16-04-2015 03:41PM

Bridget Whining Knitter wrote: »

Ok let's see what the Bible has to say about homosexuality:

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

This is a bit extreme coming from the OT, undoubtedly has to be interpreted in the light of the times and the discipline that had to be imposed. Moving on...

Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

Again OT, but the message is being hammered home.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)

NT, same message. Homosexuality is a big no-no.

Jude 7
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment.

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don.t agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn.t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/an-open-letter-to-dr-laura-concerning-homosexuality-i-did-not-write-it.2945/

oldrnwisr · 16-04-2015 04:27PM

Bridget Whining Knitter wrote: »

Ok let's see what the Bible has to say about homosexuality:

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

This is a bit extreme coming from the OT, undoubtedly has to be interpreted in the light of the times and the discipline that had to be imposed. Moving on...

Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

There's an awful lot wrong with what you just posted.

Firstly, if Leviticus is a valid argument against homosexuality then why is it not a valid argument against:

Cross-breeding animals and plants (Leviticus 19:19)
Eating food with blood in it (Leviticus 19:26)
Tattoos (Leviticus 19:28)
Astrology & psychics (Leviticus 19:31)
Shaving (Leviticus 19:27)
American Football (Leviticus 11:7)
Eating fat (Leviticus 3:17)
Wearing torn clothes (Leviticus 10:6)
Drinking alcohol in a holy place (Leviticus 10:9)
Going to church within 66 days of giving birth to a girl (Leviticus 12:4)
Selling land permanently (Leviticus 25:23)
Eating pork, rabbit, shellfish etc. (Leviticus 11)

Most Christians don't follow the strictures of Leviticus. So can you explain why they should follow 18:22 and not all the others? Either Leviticus stands or falls on its own. If you're going to appeal that Leviticus stands because of the NT don't bother. If the only reason Leviticus holds is because of NT references to homosexuality then forget about Leviticus entirely and focus on those.

Secondly, certain gay relationships are not condemned in the OT. Johnathan and David, for example:

"And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. "
1 Samuel 18:1

"I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women."
2 Samuel 1:26

Jonathan and David's relationship was recognised as a gay relationship in early Jewish oral tradition and is mentioned in the Mishnah:

“Whenever love depends on some selfish end, when the end passes away, the love passes away; but if it does not depend on some selfish end, it will never pass away. Which love depended on a selfish end? This was the love of Amnon and Tamar. And which did not depend on a selfish end? This was the love of David and Jonathan."

Bridget Whining Knitter wrote: »

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)

NT, same message. Homosexuality is a big no-no.

Jude 7
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment.

OK, onwards to the NT.

First things first, Jude. (One minor point, the reference above should read Jude 1:7, not Jude 7)
Jude is a bad example for your argument for two reasons.
Firstly, Jude is an anonymous work. Its claimed authorship has not been demonstrated and moreover it makes reference to works outside the Biblical canon. So as an authoritative source, its a bad choice.
Secondly, and much more importantly, the destruction of Sodom has nothing to do with sexual immorality. It is made quite clear in several places in the OT, but most explicitly in Ezekiel:

“‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." 16:49

that Sodom's sin was inhospitality and a failure/refusal to help the vulnerable sections of their society.

Now, as for Paul. There are two problems with Paul's assertions about homosexuality.
Firstly, Paul is a man who never meets the living Jesus. His only contact with the apostles is a brief meeting with James and spending two weeks with Peter, two men who Paul goes on to disagree with over theological issues. Also since Jesus makes no condemnation of homosexuality in his own words in any of the biographical works on him, the idea that Paul embodies Jesus' will on homosexuality is weak at best.
Secondly, just like the Leviticus problem above, there are a lot of things which Paul says which most Christians do not pay any attention to. Things like this:

" A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
1 Timothy 2:11-12

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."
Ephesians 5:22-24

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in every respect, not only when they are watching – like those who are strictly people-pleasers – but with a sincere heart, fearing the Lord."
Colossians 3:22

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."
1 Corinthians 14:34-35

So again, if Paul is not worth listening to when he says that women shouldn't have authority over a man but he is when he says gays are bad, then there must be an underlying logic other than scriptural quotes to explain this difference. So what is it?

Bridget Whining Knitter wrote: »

As far as I'm aware any research that purports to prove that homosexuality is genetic is INCONCLUSIVE. There is on the other hand a large body of work which shows that homosexuality is the result of arrested development/psychological issues (http://www.narth.com/2011/07/presidential-politics-places-narth-issues-on-front-page/). As neither theory is effectively proven/disproven, both should be given weight.

You really should try and find your science from scientific sources instead of right-wing Christian groups. The fact that you talk about a theory being proven goes to show just how much you don't understand how science works.

OK, firstly to summarise the science on the issue. Anyone who is looking for a gay gene is going to be sorely mistaken because something as complex as sexual orientation is never going to be the result of the alteration to a single gene. The genetic factors which have been identified are part of an epigenetic (i.e. the combination of effects from multiple gene alterations) influence on sexual orientation.

With regard to genetic factors in sexual orientation we have evidence of epigenetic links between male homosexuality and female fecundity:

Evidence for maternally inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity

New Evidence of Genetic Factors Influencing Sexual Orientation in Men: Female Fecundity Increase in the Maternal Line

Homosexuality via canalized sexual development: A testing protocol for a new epigenetic model

A linkage between DNA markers on the X chromosome and male sexual orientation

The real problem with what you posted above though is the false dilemma which you have set up. You have assumed that if its not genetic then it must be psychological/choice. That is completely untrue. There could be other factors at work such as biological factors which occur during gestation. In fact, this is what we've found when we've actually studied the issue.

A difference in hypothalamic structure between heterosexual and homosexual men

Genetic and Environmental Influences on Female Sexual Orientation, Childhood Gender Typicality and Adult Gender Identity

Sex steroid hormones-related structural plasticity in the human hypothalamus

Claims about psychological causes of sexual orientation fall down because they automatically exclude the possibility of genetic influences. If you're only looking for psychological causes then that's all you're going to find.
There are a number of identified causal factors which can act alone or in combination to influence a person's sexual orientation. However, the one thing that science is pretty definitive about is that none of these are the result of choice or under the conscious will of the person.

tommy2bad · 16-04-2015 05:04PM

Peig Sayers wrote: »

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don.t agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn.t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/an-open-letter-to-dr-laura-concerning-homosexuality-i-did-not-write-it.2945/

Brilliant!

homer911 · 16-04-2015 06:02PM

lazygal wrote: »

What are homosexual acts?

Do you need me to draw you a picture? Did you miss the refence to Leviticus 20:13

marienbad · 16-04-2015 06:04PM

homer911 wrote: »

Do you need me to draw you a picture? Did you miss the refence to Leviticus 20:13

Should we put them to death then ?

eviltwin · 16-04-2015 06:28PM

homer911 wrote: »

Do you need me to draw you a picture? Did you miss the refence to Leviticus 20:13

Does that only refer to those acts between two people of the same sex? Is anal sex between men and women okay or do we put them to death too?

aloyisious · 16-04-2015 06:29PM

homer911 wrote: »

Back to this again! God loves EVERYONE (even you!). He has no issue with gay people. It is the practice of homosexual acts which is anathema to God.

It keep's surprising me why, if God is so upset at homosexual acts and they are so against his nature as some people claim, he (as the almighty) never seem's to bother correcting what those children of his see as sinful.

lazygal · 16-04-2015 07:38PM

homer911 wrote: »

Do you need me to draw you a picture? Did you miss the refence to Leviticus 20:13

Yeah, it seems to be about lying together. Is that wrong and worthy of a stoning? What about anal sex between a man and woman? Or two women doing sexual acts, is lying together wrong but penetrating ok?

Maybe I do need pictures.

jobbridge4life · 16-04-2015 07:47PM

homer911 wrote: »

Do you need me to draw you a picture? Did you miss the refence to Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

But I would never 'lieth' with a woman... is it just Bi-sexies that God hates.

Timberrrrrrrr · 16-04-2015 07:47PM

Peig Sayers wrote: »

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don.t agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn.t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/an-open-letter-to-dr-laura-concerning-homosexuality-i-did-not-write-it.2945/

This post REALLY made my day

Kiwi in IE · 16-04-2015 09:20PM

Peig Sayers wrote: »

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don.t agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn.t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/an-open-letter-to-dr-laura-concerning-homosexuality-i-did-not-write-it.2945/

Fantastic! Thanks alone wasn't enough!

Kiwi in IE · 16-04-2015 09:24PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

But I would never 'lieth' with a woman... is it just Bi-sexies that God hates.

I think there is an out clause in the word 'lieth'. If one chooses positions that don't involve lying down then surely no abomination will have been committed!

efb · 16-04-2015 09:29PM

Wasnt that President Bartlett in West Wing?

a postere · 16-04-2015 10:19PM

Peig Sayers wrote: »

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don.t agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn.t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

efb wrote: »

Wasnt that President Bartlett in West Wing?

Yep, This is a quote adapted from the old TV series west wing. I'm afraid quoting this paragraph will only demonstrate ignorance of the bible, Christianity, and the old and new testaments, and not knowledge of them. Some of the stranger looking ones to us were usually significant parts of the religious rights and ceremonies to pagan gods at the time, and therefore banned as false pagan worship to the ancient Israelites.

The old covenant and ancient Israel had three types of laws : civil/criminal, ceremonial, and moral. The civil/criminal laws only applied in the state of ancient Israel, the ceremonial laws were fulfilled by the Messiah (Christ), and only moral laws remain constant, such as the ten commandments etc. etc.

Turtwig · 16-04-2015 10:33PM

efb wrote: »

Wasnt that President Bartlett in West Wing?

That was my thinking too. Did West Wing quote that, or did that quote the West Wing. Either way the best part of the speech was left out.

efb · 17-04-2015 12:04AM

Turtwig wrote: »

That was my thinking too. Did West Wing quote that, or did that quote the West Wing. Either way the best part of the speech was left out.

When the President stands, nobody sits!

ziedth · 17-04-2015 03:05PM

a postere wrote: »

Yep, This is a quote adapted from the old TV series west wing. I'm afraid quoting this paragraph will only demonstrate ignorance of the bible, Christianity, and the old and new testaments, and not knowledge of them. Some of the stranger looking ones to us were usually significant parts of the religious rights and ceremonies to pagan gods at the time, and therefore banned as false pagan worship to the ancient Israelites.

The old covenant and ancient Israel had three types of laws : civil/criminal, ceremonial, and moral. The civil/criminal laws only applied in the state of ancient Israel, the ceremonial laws were fulfilled by the Messiah (Christ), and only moral laws remain constant, such as the ten commandments etc. etc.

that is amazing, let me get this straight (pardon the pun) you can actually pick and choose what parts of the Bible are "strange" or no longer applicable?

That is some pretty outstanding moving of the goalposts. Quick question can you link me to which Bible verse says something to the effect of what you have outlined above that only the moral laws remain contstant and how the "stranger" ones above are.no longer relevant because after all if it's not in the bible then it's just some guys opinion on Bible teachings your saying.

a postere · 17-04-2015 04:34PM

ziedth wrote: »

that is amazing, let me get this straight (pardon the pun) you can actually pick and choose what parts of the Bible are "strange" or no longer applicable?

That is some pretty outstanding moving of the goalposts. Quick question can you link me to which Bible verse says something to the effect of what you have outlined above that only the moral laws remain contstant and how the "stranger" ones above are.no longer relevant because after all if it's not in the bible then it's just some guys opinion on Bible teachings your saying.

Nope, you still have it bent.

You see the bible is not a selection of 31,000 verses that is selectively mis quoted out of context to support any and every claim, its a library of books with succession.

e.g. Claim : the bible says God does not exist
Proof : "there is no God" - Psalm 14:1

The bible is an entire collection of books, not selected mis quotes taken out of context and ignoring the rest of scripture. In order to make the fantasy west wing TV sketch reality, you'll have to accept only the Old Testament up as far as Leviticus, and dump everything thereafter, including Christ, and the entire New Testament, where the old covenant was successively modified by Christ and the Apostles into the New Testament we have today and therefore Christianity. Now, even if you do that, and claim only the Old Testament to Leviticus applies , it still doesn't work, as Judaism today distinguishes between the ancient civil and state laws of ancient Israel, and the ceremonial, dietary and moral laws. The civil state/criminal laws haven't been carried out since the Romans took over the running of Israel (i.e. even before the new testament, and hence the reason the Jewish leaders had to conspire to get Christ crucified [Roman state punishment for insurrection] instead of stoned to death for blasphemy). The ceremonial Jewish laws can no longer be carried out since the complete destruction of the temple in 70AD (as Christ predicted), baptism replaced circumcision etc. in the Gospels. The dietary laws concerning not eating pork etc. were removed in Gospels and the book of acts, and the moral laws have remained unchanged, and always will, until the end of time. So you might as well try and claim Christians should be circumcised instead of being baptised and should refrain from eating pork, by claiming they should ignore the entire New Testament and follow the book of Leviticus only, but then it would'nt be Christianity, never mind Judaism.

Nick Park · 17-04-2015 04:40PM

a postere wrote: »

Yep, This is a quote adapted from the old TV series west wing. I'm afraid quoting this paragraph will only demonstrate ignorance of the bible, Christianity, and the old and new testaments, and not knowledge of them. Some of the stranger looking ones to us were usually significant parts of the religious rights and ceremonies to pagan gods at the time, and therefore banned as false pagan worship to the ancient Israelites.

The old covenant and ancient Israel had three types of laws : civil/criminal, ceremonial, and moral. The civil/criminal laws only applied in the state of ancient Israel, the ceremonial laws were fulfilled by the Messiah (Christ), and only moral laws remain constant, such as the ten commandments etc. etc.

It was originally directed at a Jewish newspaper columnist in the US who dismissed homosexuality as an abomination.

a postere · 17-04-2015 04:42PM

Nick Park wrote: »

It was originally directed at a Jewish newspaper columnist in the US who dismissed homosexuality as an abomination.

That would make sense, as it actually focuses on Judaism not Christianity, and it doesn't even get that correct.

Nick Park · 17-04-2015 04:47PM

a postere wrote: »

That would make sense, as it actually focuses on Judaism not Christianity, and it doesn't even get that correct.

True, but it surfaces in this forum occasionally - probably for the following reasons.

a) There isn't a Jewish forum.
b) Baiting Jews isn't generally considered politically correct, whereas baiting Christians is grand.
c) You always get one or two Christian posters who, instead of doing decent biblical exegesis, like to spout verses from Leviticus out of context and so set themselves up for a comeback such as this.

The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

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