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Fluoride update re IQ

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Comments

  • #332
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    Was it not a paper you linked to that showed mild fluorosis was linked to lower carier incidences ? Pretty sure it came up before.

    Would like to know which one that was myself


  • #333
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    jh79 wrote: »
    http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/ndatopics/docs/ndatolerableuil.pdf

    Has some estimates on dietary vitamin and mineral intakes and tolerable levels, fluoride is from pg 363.

    I think it might of come from here , not 100% on that. It was me not you who linked to it. It was about 6 months ago so all a bit hazy.


  • #334
    Cianmcliam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Cianmcliam


    weisses wrote: »
    Then why do countries that don't fluoridate have equal or even better results when it comes to managing tooth decay? Ireland is the only country in the world where fluoridation is dictated by law ... They should be number one in the world regarding dental health ....... They are not even close

    A number of reasons, I'm sure they've already been listed on other threads.
    Some countries replaced fluoridation with fluoride varnishes that are regularly applied by dentists. Others offer fluoridated salt.

    As the Expert Body have pointed out, something like a malaria vaccine would look ineffective in Ireland, we would have no drop in cases before and after since malaria is not prevalent here. Adding fluoride to water in countries that don't eat as much sugary snacks as here would obviously show less benefits than it does here. Irish children consume more sugary sweets more often than most other countries and take less care of their teeth. Children in Northern Ireland have similar eating habits and the lack of fluoridation shows up in lots more cavities and extractions. You have to compare like with like.


  • #335
    Cianmcliam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Cianmcliam


    Just to add, the reason fluoridation is carried out by law in Ireland is because allowing individual county councils to decide to fluoridate or not would be unworkable. Reservoirs and treatment plants here are often shared across county council areas. If one council voted to start or stop fluoridation they wouldn't have the power to compel the other councils that share the same water supply to do the same. It wouldn't be fair if scare tactics or populist strokes by certain councils or the people influencing them impacted the dental health of people who do want fluoridation.


  • #336
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    Cianmcliam wrote: »
    A number of reasons, I'm sure they've already been listed on other threads.
    Some countries replaced fluoridation with fluoride varnishes that are regularly applied by dentists. Others offer fluoridated salt.

    As the Expert Body have pointed out, something like a malaria vaccine would look ineffective in Ireland, we would have no drop in cases before and after since malaria is not prevalent here. Adding fluoride to water in countries that don't eat as much sugary snacks as here would obviously show less benefits than it does here. Irish children consume more sugary sweets more often than most other countries and take less care of their teeth. Children in Northern Ireland have similar eating habits and the lack of fluoridation shows up in lots more cavities and extractions. You have to compare like with like.

    Is there a link to the research stating Irish kids consume more then other kids in the EU/US ?

    Your other points means that there is choice ... something that is lacking in Ireland


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  • #337
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    Cianmcliam wrote: »
    Just to add, the reason fluoridation is carried out by law in Ireland is because allowing individual county councils to decide to fluoridate or not would be unworkable. Reservoirs and treatment plants here are often shared across county council areas. If one council voted to start or stop fluoridation they wouldn't have the power to compel the other councils that share the same water supply to do the same. It wouldn't be fair if scare tactics or populist strokes by certain councils or the people influencing them impacted the dental health of people who do want fluoridation.

    Is Ireland the only country in the world facing the difficulties you describe above ?? ... Don't think so


  • #338
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weisses wrote: »
    Is Ireland the only country in the world facing the difficulties you describe above ?? ... Don't think so

    He is just explaining why the council have no say in this.


  • #339
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    He is just explaining why the council have no say in this.

    Yeah and i was asking If Ireland's situation is unique in the world ? ...


  • #340
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weisses wrote: »
    Yeah and i was asking If Ireland's situation is unique in the world ? ...

    I'd imagine the smaller the country the more likely the treatment plants are shared across regions.


  • #341
    Cianmcliam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Cianmcliam


    weisses wrote: »
    Is there a link to the research stating Irish kids consume more then other kids in the EU/US ?

    Your other points means that there is choice ... something that is lacking in Ireland


    Sure, the Expert Body on Fluorides and Health quote a 2005 report on diet and obesity, of the 34 countries studied Ireland had the highest proportion of children eating sugary sweets and drinks, close to 50%. That's almost five times higher than In Finland where the figure is closer to 10%. See page 9: http://www.fluoridesandhealth.ie/download/documents/Appraisal_of_Waugh_report_May_2012.pdf


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  • #342
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    Cianmcliam wrote: »
    Sure, the Expert Body on Fluorides and Health quote a 2005 report on diet and obesity, of the 34 countries studied Ireland had the highest proportion of children eating sugary sweets and drinks, close to 50%. That's almost five times higher than In Finland where the figure is closer to 10%. See page 9: http://www.fluoridesandhealth.ie/download/documents/Appraisal_of_Waugh_report_May_2012.pdf

    Luckily the 2010 data shows Irish children are getting healthier .... so hopefully mass fluoridation would be a thing of the past soon


  • #343
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weisses wrote: »
    Luckily the 2010 data shows Irish children are getting healthier .... so hopefully mass fluoridation would be a thing of the past soon

    I think we are the 2nd most obese nation in Europe , 25% of kids are overweight according to this recent study. The increases seen in the previous years are just plateauing off now.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/childhood-obesity-rates-stabilise-in-ireland-but-global-fattening-highlights-inequality-1.1953723


  • #344
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    I think we are the 2nd most obese nation in Europe , 25% of kids are overweight according to this recent study. The increases seen in the previous years are just plateauing off now.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/childhood-obesity-rates-stabilise-in-ireland-but-global-fattening-highlights-inequality-1.1953723

    http://www.newsweek.com/water-fluoridation-may-increase-risk-underactive-thyroid-disorder-309173

    And the circle is complete


  • #345
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weisses wrote: »
    http://www.newsweek.com/water-fluoridation-may-increase-risk-underactive-thyroid-disorder-309173

    And the circle is complete

    How do you mean?


  • #346
    EoghanIRL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭EoghanIRL


    Will be interesting to read the cochrane library review on fluoride in the water supply once it's completed. Thinks it's supposed to be finished soon.


  • #347
    stuar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭stuar


    http://www.fluoridealert.org/wp-content/pesticides/epa-sf/table.4.iq.behav.pdf


  • #348
    SpaceSasqwatch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭SpaceSasqwatch


    weisses wrote: »
    Sooo you come in here complaining about bad science but at the same time you feel the need to make up claims regarding fluoride levels ....... Great
    you missed the point weisses....you live in a country that has no adverse effects from water flouridation apart from speckling of the teeth.And its been done for years.And has prooven results.

    There's a reason the anti-flouridation debate is in the CT forum.

    Its championed by charltons and snake-oil men.Ashling fitzgibbon and declan waugh to name a few.Not to mention the other nutjobs they have linked up with from abroad.


  • #349
    SpaceSasqwatch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭SpaceSasqwatch


    stuar wrote: »
    http://www.fluoridealert.org/wp-content/pesticides/epa-sf/table.4.iq.behav.pdf

    when I said nutjobs from abroad... i forgot to mention Dr. Paul Connet :)

    http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/connett.html


  • #350
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »
    you missed the point weisses....you live in a country that has no adverse effects from water flouridation apart from speckling of the teeth.And its been done for years.And has prooven results.

    There's a reason the anti-flouridation debate is in the CT forum.

    Its championed by charltons and snake-oil men.Ashling fitzgibbon and declan waugh to name a few.Not to mention the other nutjobs they have linked up with from abroad.


    Aaand avoiding the simple initial question put to you again ..... It is the CT forum but it would be nice if you can back it up whenever you make specific claims ... Otherwise you get into pot/kettle territory


  • #351
    melbite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭melbite


    A friend has a theory that our water fluoridation is a government strategy to control the masses. I think its the funniest argument known to mankind but they fully believe it to be true. Anyone else heard of this?


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  • #352
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    probably got it from Dr Strangelove the film by kubrick


  • #353
    melbite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭melbite


    thanks I'll check that out :)


  • #354
    degrassinoel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,769 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    Open topic on this already, right here


    Mod: Topic Merged


  • #355
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    I am thinking I start to understand why the US government is so reluctant in tackling the fluoride issue


    Just watched this

    http://fedupmovie.com/#/page/home

    They just keep it in place otherwise half of the US is toothless in a couple of years

    Rather had them seen taking down the "sugar lobby" but even the WHO cannot do that

    Sad state of affairs


  • #356
    pueblo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭pueblo


    Fluoride also calcifies the pineal gland (third eye)

    http://www.icnr.com/articles/fluoride-deposition.html


  • #357
    miss tickle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭miss tickle


    pueblo wrote: »
    Fluoride also calcifies the pineal gland (third eye)

    http://www.icnr.com/articles/fluoride-deposition.html

    and lets not forget calcification of the arteries,


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21946616/


    One of the adjustments my father was advised to make after his heart attack was to install a water filtration system if he could.


  • #358
    miss tickle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭miss tickle


    SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »
    you missed the point weisses....you live in a country that has no adverse effects from water flouridation apart from speckling of the teeth.And its been done for years.And has prooven results.

    There's a reason the anti-flouridation debate is in the CT forum.

    Its championed by charltons and snake-oil men.Ashling fitzgibbon and declan waugh to name a few.Not to mention the other nutjobs they have linked up with from abroad.

    Here's a graph of fluoride levels in drinking water in Europe.

    http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/Images/PercentageFluorideEurope.JPG

    Our levels are 700% higher than our nearest neighbor England. The majority of EU countries are at 0%. Why?

    Can you link to the superior dental and health outcomes that Ireland is experiencing in contrast to their un-fluoridated neighbors due to these massive levels of fluoridation?

    One would have to wonder if there are financial kickbacks for the inclusion of fluoride in our water system. I think we are being duped here, without any consideration for the long term health implications. This should be considered a criminal act.


  • #359
    EoghanIRL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭EoghanIRL


    miss tickle wrote: »
    Here's a graph of fluoride levels in drinking water in Europe.

    http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/Images/PercentageFluorideEurope.JPG

    Our levels are 700% higher than our nearest neighbor England. The majority of EU countries are at 0%. Why?

    Can you link to the superior dental and health outcomes that Ireland is experiencing in contrast to their un-fluoridated neighbors due to these massive levels of fluoridation?

    One would have to wonder if there are financial kickbacks for the inclusion of fluoride in our water system. I think we are being duped here, without any consideration for the long term health implications. This should be considered a criminal act.

    The eu directive states that the maximum flouride levels in a public water supply are 1.5 ppm.
    Our "massive" flouride levels barely amount to half of this figure.

    The Irish population consumes a large amount of refined carbohydrates and confectionary items thus it is necessary to consume flouride from multiple sources including drinking water.

    The advantages of flouride in the water supply at these levels by far out way the disadvantages.
    Flouride is important in oral health and it is a factor in the aetiology of several dental diseases.


  • #360
    miss tickle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭miss tickle


    EoghanIRL wrote: »
    The eu directive states that the maximum flouride levels in a public water supply are 1.5 ppm.
    Our "massive" flouride levels barely amount to half of this figure.

    The Irish population consumes a large amount of refined carbohydrates and confectionary items thus it is necessary to consume flouride from multiple sources including drinking water.

    The advantages of flouride in the water supply at these levels by far out way the disadvantages.
    Flouride is important in oral health and it is a factor in the aetiology of several dental diseases.

    Consumption of refined carbohydrates is a moot point. Most western countries have a large consumption of refined carbohydrates, have zero additional fluoride, and still have comparable or better dental outcome. But no matter, with the current privatization of Irish water, it may now possible to approach the European court of human rights, and demand that our water, which we will be purchasing, is not contaminated with additional fluoride.


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  • #361
    SpaceSasqwatch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭SpaceSasqwatch


    miss tickle wrote: »

    http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/Images/PercentageFluorideEurope.JPG
    That website uses data provided by dr paul connett to make that graph.He's a well known flouride scaremonger/charlatan so can be safely ignored for being a quack.


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