How many hours in a working week?

Kristopherus · 31-03-2015 12:13PM

The Honey Monster wrote: »

But it's not a 40hour week.
It's 8 to 5 everyday.... It's 42.5 every week.

Stheno asked earlier in the thread if the 42.5 hrs includes lunch hour. How long is lunch hour?

Greenmachine · 31-03-2015 12:16PM

I do feel for the OP's work situation. However it does seem like, the contract is perfectly legitimate. Op can you answer a question, were you shown a copy of the contract before you accepted the job.
I have worked my share of jobs, with the minimum of entitlements. It can feel disillusioning, if you are used to better terms, in a previous contract. The best policy in situations like this is to forget about the past, or what other people are on. Do you feel misled, or did you jump to the conclusion, without confirmation that your take home pay would be higher than your quoted salary. It seems like you were expecting to be payed 3.5hr at 1.5x rate on top of 39 salary hours. For 44.25hr pay versus 39.

31-03-2015 12:21PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Stheno asked earlier in the thread if the 42.5 hrs includes lunch hour. How long is lunch hour?

Sounds like they don't have a lunch hour, they just have 2*15 minute breaks (which is perfectly legal). Which means their work week is 42.5 hours (8 to 5 * 5 minus 5*30 minutes). Which is perfectly legal. And they're paid a standard rate for that working week. Which, again, is perfectly legal.

There are only 3 options here:

Accept the contract as is
Attempt to negotiate the terms of the contract before signing (unlikely to be successful unless you're difficult to replace)
Don't accept the contract, and lose the job

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 31-03-2015 12:21PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Stheno asked earlier in the thread if the 42.5 hrs includes lunch hour. How long is lunch hour?

2 breaks, 15 min each unpaid.

Lads again it's 8 to 5 mon to Fri = 9 hours a day, 45 a week.
Take my breaks out and that's 42.5 hours actual I'm on the floor working for.

My payslip said 39 hours. I'm not getting paid anything over.

Uncle Ben · 31-03-2015 12:24PM

BizzyC wrote: »

It sounds like you've been given a 40 hour week and are being paid for a 40 hour week.

I agree completely with the career vs job comments though, companies like to see employees who don't run out the door as soon as 5pm hits.
That's not to say you'll be in their bad books by doing it, it will just hurt chances of advancement.

I'll have to disagree with you where you state advancement could be inhibited. When I worked in management it was preferable that employees completed their work within their rostered hours.It kept the wage bill down not having to pay the o/time, plus all of the other costs associated with same.
I suppose it's different now with management expecting their employees to' go the extra mile'. It's far cheaper when you get a couple of hours free per week.
2 hours per week equates to 96 hours per working year. Unpaid.

Hasmunch · 31-03-2015 12:30PM

How can your contract states 42.5 hours per week but your payslip only says 39 hours per week?

Does your contract state daily 8-5?

31-03-2015 12:36PM

The Honey Monster wrote: »

My payslip said 39 hours. I'm not getting paid anything over.

Your contract is what's important. You can raise the payslip disrepancy with the company, but they'll almost certainly say it's "just the way the system is set up". Unless your contract explicitly states that you are paid by the hour (as opposed to an annual/monthly/weekly salary), it's irrelevant

Reoil · 31-03-2015 12:42PM

Two 15-minute breaks in a 9 hour day?! Feck that!
In the UK anyway, as far as I'm aware, you're legally entitled to a half hour break for every four hours of work.

Alf Veedersane · 31-03-2015 12:43PM

BizzyC wrote: »

I agree completely with the career vs job comments though, companies like to see employees who don't run out the door as soon as 5pm hits.
That's not to say you'll be in their bad books by doing it, it will just hurt chances of advancement.

Not true. If you're able to bill for all of the time you're being paid to be there, then it makes no difference if you leave at 5/5.30 whenever.

Reoil · 31-03-2015 12:50PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Not true. If you're able to bill for all of the time you're being paid to be there, then it makes no difference if you leave at 5/5.30 whenever.

I disagree. If you're a manager, looking to promote somebody, who do you choose - the person first out the door at the end of the day, or the person who stays to make sure they get the work done?

seamus · 31-03-2015 12:56PM

28064212 wrote: »

Your contract is what's important. You can raise the payslip disrepancy with the company, but they'll almost certainly say it's "just the way the system is set up". Unless your contract explicitly states that you are paid by the hour (as opposed to an annual/monthly/weekly salary), it's irrelevant

Yep. OP, you're getting hung up on this 39 hour work week thing. If your contract does not state an hourly rate and rather states a weekly/monthly/yearly rate, then you're on a salary. You work the hours stated in the contract, and you get paid that amount. What it says on the payslip doesn't matter. That's a piece of data in a computer. They could just change this to read "basic salary". And when you complain about it, that's probably what they'll do.

What likely happened is that the mill previously had some workers on fixed salaries - office staff, etc. When doing the payslips, they were entered in as "39 hour week". When the mill downsized, everyone got moved to the fixed salary model, but the text still just reads, "39 hour week" because they don't want to have to pay someone to change their payroll system.

You're getting paid for a 42.5 hour work week because that's what your contract says.

The only thing you need to look at is calculation of your rate of pay based on that 42.5 hour work week. If it falls below minimum wage, then they may be breaching the law.

seamus · 31-03-2015 01:02PM

Reoil wrote: »

I disagree. If you're a manager, looking to promote somebody, who do you choose - the person first out the door at the end of the day, or the person who stays to make sure they get the work done?

That depends. I would probably be asking myself before why the guy needs to stay back to get the work done.
Putting in long hours does not necessarily equate with someone being productive and hard working.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 31-03-2015 01:07PM

Seems I'll just be singing it and looking for a new job. I appreciate all the feedback lads. It's just not what was said to me at interview stage. I fully believed it was 8-4. It's simply not worth it for the lousy to wages when all is considered working those hours. I'd get the same for working 39 in Tesco.

31-03-2015 01:14PM

Reoil wrote: »

Two 15-minute breaks in a 9 hour day?! Feck that!
In the UK anyway, as far as I'm aware, you're legally entitled to a half hour break for every four hours of work.

Nope: https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/overview

Workers have the right to one uninterrupted 20 minute rest break during their working day (this could be a tea or lunch break), if they work more than 6 hours a day.

Legally, things are slightly better here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/hours_of_work/rest_periods_and_breaks.html

The general rule on breaks is that you are entitled to a break of 15 minutes after a 4 ½ hour work period. If you work more than 6 hours you are entitled to a break of 30 minutes, which can include the first 15-minute break

i.e. if you work more than 6 hours, you're entitled to 1*30min break or 2*15min breaks

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 31-03-2015 01:21PM

I was always under the impression it was more than 30 mins if over 8 hours.

BizzyC · 31-03-2015 01:49PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Not true. If you're able to bill for all of the time you're being paid to be there, then it makes no difference if you leave at 5/5.30 whenever.

This is true if you're paid per hour or billing them.
If you're an employee on a salary then it's a different story.

Greenmachine · 01-04-2015 12:21AM

The Honey Monster wrote: »

I was always under the impression it was more than 30 mins if over 8 hours.

Over 10 hours before you are entitled to an hour.

01-04-2015 01:20AM

Greenmachine wrote: »

Over 10 hours before you are entitled to an hour.

There's no law I'm aware of that states that. The entirety of the section of the Organisation of Working Time Act relating to rest periods:

12.—(1) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 4 hours and 30 minutes without allowing him or her a break of at least 15 minutes.
(2) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 6 hours without allowing him or her a break of at least 30 minutes; such a break may include the break referred to in subsection (1).
(3) The Minister may by regulations provide, as respects a specified class or classes of employee, that the minimum duration of the break to be allowed to such an employee under subsection (2) shall be more than 30 minutes (but not more than 1 hour).
(4) A break allowed to an employee at the end of the working day shall not be regarded as satisfying the requirement contained in subsection (1) or (2).

It's perfectly legal for an employer to have a contract where the working week is, say, 09:00 to 19:30, 5 days a week, with just 2*15 minute breaks a day. Or for that matter, 07:00 to 19:00, 4 days a week, again with just 2*15 minute breaks a day.

Whether any employee would ever sign up to a 12-hour day with just two 15 minute breaks is another discussion

Panda_Turtle · 01-04-2015 08:13AM

Spare a thought for us whose standard hours are not 9-5 but fall within the hours 8-6 or 7-5; with additional "overtime required from time to time which is reflected in your salary".

Greenmachine · 01-04-2015 04:12PM

28064212 wrote: »

There's no law I'm aware of that states that. The entirety of the section of the Organisation of Working Time Act relating to rest periods:

It's perfectly legal for an employer to have a contract where the working week is, say, 09:00 to 19:30, 5 days a week, with just 2*15 minute breaks a day. Or for that matter, 07:00 to 19:00, 4 days a week, again with just 2*15 minute breaks a day.

Whether any employee would ever sign up to a 12-hour day with just two 15 minute breaks is another discussion

I have had another look. The breaks I have mentioned appear to only apply to certain retail areas.

donkey balls · 02-04-2015 12:09AM

I have done the salary thingy and at one time Had the MD tell me that the company wasn't getting their monies worth from me was doing 50/60hrs a week including working nights,A certain part of the transport industry pays drivers a daily rate of pay,Now a driver can end up working a 15 hr day for €100 when you break it down it is less than the min wage and the amount of responsibility the driver has is unreal.
The last company I worked for would have us doing 12 hr shifts some days which would include 2x 30/45 min paid breaks ,This was a safety factor built in due to the work we did also got paid OT for any hours extra.

MouseTail · 02-04-2015 08:34AM

The level of exploitation of workers is something I haven't seen for a long time, the sooner the Commission for Low Pay publishes and legislates the better.

What is going on in the likes of Dunnes is disgraceful, and I hope Boardsies support the picket today.

donkey balls · 02-04-2015 09:08AM

Since 2008 when things stared to go down hill the amount of agencies that have set up in Ireland is unreal,I can empathise with the Dunnes workers as when I did agency work from 08/2012.
From day to day I didn't know if I would be working the following day or week,Every month would be squeaky bum time when it came to mortgage time.
I have seen companies get rid of their full time employees and replace them with agency staff,I worked for one particular company were they would have you start just say at 5 am and you could be finished at 9 am and sent home.
So you could be travelling paying petrol tolls etc and it wouldn't be worth you're while,Another thing they did to get around the Temporary agency directive was to hire about 3 agency staff.
These took the place of some staff that got made redundant but on less money, they got paid the agency rate which was a pittance but by accepting the new terms meant that the company would not have to pay the same wage to the agency staff as they paid their remaining full time staff.

Timistry · 03-04-2015 01:37PM

Dont get me started on contracts and working hours. In my last job we had a 38 hour working week but we did 50 hours a week, every week. There was a reasonable overtime clause in the contract but 10 hours a week is hardly reasonable... At the start I was just happy to have a job and to be getting good experience. As alluded to earlier by other posters, it begins to play on your mind after a while, especially during extra busy periods or those inevitable rough patches.

I did raise it with my managers but their response was "ah well, we all do it so its the expectation. I also required with HR and they said that the overtime was factored into our salaries based on salaries surveys but they would not give any details on how this was calculated. Not with that company now but it was a good education in contracts.

I would say try and find another job if you are confident you can get another and in the financial position to take the chance

How many hours in a working week?

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