Ryanair Collision..Again

billie1b · 01-04-2015 05:11PM

flanzer wrote: »

I assume there was dual ops this morning and both runways were active? If Ryanair pilots weren't as pressured to squeeze every last second out of their leg, this wouldn't have happened

There was nobody under any pressure and the aircraft in question had left stand early, the aircraft was stopped and given instruction to move forward and turn into taxi-way Alpha, so it went from a static position, it was hardly going 80kts at the time.

djsim101 · 01-04-2015 05:54PM

Sorry for going off topic slightly but this was mentioned in this thread and a few other times that Ryanair taxi quicker than other airliners, surely this cannot \ should not be the case?

I would have thought Dublin Airport, as in other airport would have its own speed limits which much be followed?

CardinalJ · 01-04-2015 05:55PM

Have the daily mail advised of how many fatalities there will be as a result of this horror smash?

I'd imagine this kind of thing is what drives Ryanair management up the wall. They're putting such a push into changing their image and incidents like these make them look reckless or dangerous. I'm no fan of Ryanair's service but I admire them for how successful they are and their safety record is good.

I'm sure it's been mentioned but there's been plenty worse than these type of incident.

BA 747 cuts into a building. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJOMayb_FXY

Air France A380 cleaned up a small jet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zea6dO7j7p0

donvito99 · 01-04-2015 06:03PM

bluemartin wrote: »

Widen the taxiway then, if it was wide enough they wouldn't be clipping off one another.

Or we could view this as one of two wing tip strikes of thousands of safe movements on those taxiways every year.

The blame here lies with one or both sets of flight crew.

fr336 · 01-04-2015 06:08PM

CardinalJ wrote: »

I'm no fan of Ryanair's service but I admire them for how successful they are and their safety record is good.

I'd call it excellent, based on what I've heard of incidents and you know that any tiny thing to do with FR will be picked up by the tabloids especially in the UK.

smurfjed · 01-04-2015 07:30PM

Read the above, both Aircraft were under control of ATC, who should ensure it doesn't happen.

but the ATC are ultimately to blaim here

Nope it doesn't work that way, responsibility rests with the guy in the left seat.

What are your credentials to completely undermine my comment?

I'm willing to answer that one

Compared with BA or EI, who appear much more cautious and taxi at lower speeds

Are you sure that the FR taxi speed limits are higher than EI/BA?

There was the A380 clipping the small commuter jet in JFK, although that was much more serious, nearly flipped the commuter right round.

Dont forget the A380 incident at the Le Bourget Airshow where they attacked the Embraer building

smurfjed · 01-04-2015 07:42PM

I would have thought Dublin Airport, as in other airport would have its own speed limits which much be followed?

Generally not, although some airports do have taxiway speed restrictions for enclosed taxiways.

Bog Man 1 · 01-04-2015 08:23PM

<SNIP> I deleted the off topic rant. In addition you may need to clarify which of the below statements you stand over

DAA would not appear to be able to manage a modern airport and these accidents happened under their supervision . Warning pilots to watch their wingtips is not a get out of jail card for them .
The pilots are responsible for their aircraft and should not be clipping wings or colliding with objects . NO EXCEPTIONS.

sharkman · 01-04-2015 08:30PM

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

<SNIP>
DAA would not appear to be able to manage a modern airport and these accidents happened under their supervision . Warning pilots to watch their wingtips is not a get out of jail card for them .
The pilots are responsible for their aircraft and should not be clipping wings or colliding with objects . NO EXCEPTIONS.

T2 was purpose built for wide-bodied Aircraft and to facilitate CBP .

Strumms · 01-04-2015 08:35PM

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

<SNIP>
DAA would not appear to be able to manage a modern airport and these accidents happened under their supervision . Warning pilots to watch their wingtips is not a get out of jail card for them .
The pilots are responsible for their aircraft and should not be clipping wings or colliding with objects . NO EXCEPTIONS.

What sort of nonsense is that ? Who cares if it's a national carrier or otherwise, Pier D which Ryanair use was built for narrow body jets and low cost non contact ops, I hate the walk too but to say it's bedlam there is rubbish.

Ryanair do not operate transatlantic, have widebody jets, require US preclearance facilities etc, so remind me again why Ryanair should be using T2, a facility that was purpose built to serve a totally different market and type of operation.

smurfjed · 01-04-2015 08:45PM

When T2 was opened, did Ryanair express an interest in moving there and paying the extra fees?

lord lucan · 01-04-2015 08:57PM

smurfjed wrote: »

When T2 was opened, did Ryanair express an interest in moving there and paying the extra fees?

Nope, they had no interest and were happy to distance themselves from the 'white elephant'. Pier D was effectively built for them, there was no way FR would pay the daa's fees for airbridge use.

Bog Man 1 · 01-04-2015 09:03PM

Why did DAA not build a T2 to accommodate fast turn around . I have flown Aer Lingus out of T2 loads of times and it is a fine facility and I prefer it to T1 and even when flying out of T1 if I have time I will go down to T2 to eat .
Most people using Dublin are doing short Haul and they are the bread and butter of the Airport and should be looked after with a safe travelling environment . Fifteen minutes walking out to Mulhuddart and then getting on a plane in a muck sweat for a fifty minute flight and then placing planes in close proximity to each other so four planes have been damaged in as many months.

Bog Man 1 · 01-04-2015 09:06PM

smurfjed wrote: »

When T2 was opened, did Ryanair express an interest in moving there and paying the extra fees?

Extra Fees says it all . Why should there be extra fees . Those days are gone.

RUK · 01-04-2015 09:24PM

Should get parking sensors!

A Dub in Glasgo · 01-04-2015 09:47PM

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

Extra Fees says it all . Why should there be extra fees . Those days are gone.

Not getting this at all, you think Ryanair should get use of all the facilities without paying for them?

Ralf and Florian · 01-04-2015 09:55PM

radar0976 wrote: »

That comment is based on absolutely no evidence. Who knows whose fault it was ? It could equally be the controllers fault, a technical fault or something else. Let's reserve judgement for the moment before jumping to conclusions.

Well said Mr O Leary.

Tenger · 01-04-2015 10:14PM

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

Why did DAA not build a T2 to accommodate fast turn around . I have flown Aer Lingus out of T2 loads of times and it is a fine facility and I prefer it to T1 and even when flying out of T1 if I have time I will go down to T2 to eat .
Most people using Dublin are doing short Haul and they are the bread and butter of the Airport and should be looked after with a safe travelling environment . Fifteen minutes walking out to Mulhuddart and then getting on a plane in a muck sweat for a fifty minute flight and then placing planes in close proximity to each other so four planes have been damaged in as many months.

Thanks for your input into the thread. Next time ring Joe Duffy. This is not a T2 design/customer experience discussion.
If you have specific questions about this incident then ask them, if you just want to troll the other posters with your nonsensical and offtopic rants then you will be banned from A&A.
This collision is no consequence of the design of T2. This was caused by lack of situational awareness by a small number of the hundreds of flight crew who operate into/through/out of DUB on any given day.

Tenger · 01-04-2015 10:18PM

smurfjed wrote: »

.....
Dont forget the A380 incident at the Le Bourget Airshow where they attacked the Embraer building

Jungle jet makers deserved it!!!!

Kangoo Man · 01-04-2015 10:40PM

It would make you wonder what kind of pilots Ryanair are employing, when for the second time, they crash a relatively small aircraft (737), on a relatively empty taxi way at the start of the runway (not near departure gates)...

It is 100% pilot error, ATC only give direction, they're not driving/flying the plane...

Cessna_Pilot · 01-04-2015 10:54PM

Kangoo Man wrote: »

It would make you wonder what kind of pilots Ryanair are employing, when for the second time, they crash a relatively small aircraft (737), on a relatively empty taxi way at the start of the runway (not near departure gates)...

It is 100% pilot error, ATC only give direction, they're not driving/flying the plane...

1600 flights a day, 364 days a year and an incredible safety record says it all for me.
Two gcols in 6 months is a bit much, and imo are down to pilot error but not a reflection on the circa 3000 guys and girls who fly the aircraft.

fr336 · 01-04-2015 11:12PM

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

1600 flights a day, 364 days a year and an incredible safety record says it all for me.
Two gcols in 6 months is a bit much, and imo are down to pilot error but not a reflection on the circa 3000 guys and girls who fly the aircraft.

If it was any of the same pilots as last time that reduces the mud sticking even moreso

billie1b · 01-04-2015 11:14PM

Kangoo Man wrote: »

It would make you wonder what kind of pilots Ryanair are employing, when for the second time, they crash a relatively small aircraft (737), on a relatively empty taxi way at the start of the runway (not near departure gates)...

It is 100% pilot error, ATC only give direction, they're not driving/flying the plane...

I wouldn't call a 737-800 a relatively small aircraft, shes a big enough bus with a big enough wingspan for the relatively small taxi-ways and angles approaching RWY 28/34

fr336 · 01-04-2015 11:19PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Not getting this at all, you think Ryanair should get use of all the facilities without paying for them?

Exactly. 'Those days are gone'. This is a typical attitude today, big businesses able to throw their weight around while the weaker party can potentially be taken advantage of. Now I like FR overall, but they push their luck sometimes as with this. A wider business attitude, I'm not singling FR out here, is that the big guns can screw over whoever they like as long as it's mainly workers. So CEOs / shareholders make a mint while the workers are squeezed at every turn as if the company will cease to function if the company as a whole pays its fair share. In FR's case, they should be meeting the airports at least halfway and I hope they're better at this than they maybe were previously. Obviously Dublin isn't some creaking little airport but still they're not rolling in dosh either. The poster you replied to seems to subscribe to the admittedly very popular view that the company is the only concern when it comes to pay. What the same people forget that is it isn't just a company is it - it's full of people, a handful at the top 'earning' millions (and in some cases, a few, they have the talent to deserve it) then those being productive and worked into the ground at the bottom having frozen pay, cut pay, zero hour contracts (not sure how widespread that is in Eire), or redundancies. It's a joke but sadly the corporate, multinational company has turned into the monarchy of the 21st century in a way. Apologies for the rant.

fr336 · 01-04-2015 11:37PM

Tenger wrote: »

You would think after the previous incident FR would issue a directive to flight crew to be vigilant at certain points while taxiing at DUB.

You really think they didn't?

Even if it was only to have something to show anyone who made an issue of it, they certainly would have done.

strettyend · 01-04-2015 11:40PM

Couldn't care less how good ryanairs safety record is. There seems to be more and more incidents happening with Ryanair and for what its worth I think its only a matter of time before Ryanair is involved in a much more serious accident either in the sky or on the ground where the they might not be as lucky as previous occasions.

fr336 · 01-04-2015 11:45PM

strettyend wrote: »

Couldn't care less how good ryanairs safety record is. There seems to be more and more incidents happening with Ryanair and for what its worth I think its only a matter of time before Ryanair is involved in a much more serious accident either in the sky or on the ground where the they might not be as lucky as previous occasions.

Hello Daily Mail intern, print run going well?

Absolutely shocking comments, I hope your post is removed. Don't know if you did maths at school but FR are quite a big airline - well over 1000 flights a DAY across Europe and you're talking about less than 3 incidents? Two of which were at Dublin. That would say to be Dublin may play a hand here. And whatever else may be involved. I'm astonished you can make comments about FR's safety compared with other airlines - they all have their 'incidents', most of which aren't anything to do with how the airline operates. The stats stack up, FR are technically safer than the likes of Aer Lingus, British Airways etc since they operate so many more flights right across Europe. Where are you getting off with such ludicrious comments?

strettyend · 02-04-2015 12:10AM

fr336 wrote: »

Hello Daily Mail intern, print run going well?

Absolutely shocking comments, I hope your post is removed. Don't know if you did maths at school but FR are quite a big airline - well over 1000 flights a DAY across Europe and you're talking about less than 3 incidents? Two of which were at Dublin. That would say to be Dublin may play a hand here. And whatever else may be involved. I'm astonished you can make comments about FR's safety compared with other airlines - they all have their 'incidents', most of which aren't anything to do with how the airline operates. The stats stack up, FR are technically safer than the likes of Aer Lingus, British Airways etc since they operate so many more flights right across Europe. Where are you getting off with such ludicrious comments?

Why should my post be removed? is it because I don't have the same love in with Ryanair as you obviously do? Well for what its worth I am perfectly entitled to my opinion as you are yours as im sure your aware. Since your such an expert on aviation I would gladly like to hear the proof Ryanair are technically safer than aerlingus and british airways ? As a matter of interest aerlingus have been flying 80 odd years and have an excellent safety record . I know who I personally feel safer flying with . Perhaps this post should be removed because of that last sentence too !!

JCX BXC · 02-04-2015 12:13AM

Let's ignore all the obvious facts that we have seen and say well Ryanair is not a safe airline, EI, BA and the rest are! Not like they have ever had a fatal accident before !

fr336 · 02-04-2015 12:13AM

strettyend wrote: »

Why should my post be removed? is it because I don't have the same love in with Ryanair as you obviously do? Well for what its worth I am perfectly entitled to my opinion as you are yours as im sure your aware. Since your such an expert on aviation I would gladly like to hear the proof Ryanair are technically safer than aerlingus and british airways ? As a matter of interest aerlingus have been flying 80 odd years and have an excellent safety record . I know who I personally feel safer flying with . Perhaps this post should be removed because of that last sentence too !!

I don't love any airline or business, I just expect a fair throw of the dice which you're clearly not interested in. There are no suggestions that we know of - none - that FR aren't any less than 100% safe and right up there with the top fleet of airlines (indeed many of their contemporaries lag behind them in many areas)
You claim I love FR, I say you have an agenda.

Ryanair Collision..Again

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