Ryanair Collision..Again

martinsvi

Carnacalla wrote: »

but such Hostility is unwarranted.


How come this only happens at Dublin? Explain that for me, you should be able with your experience.

I agree, jumping to conclusions and blaming innocent people for something they're not responsible for really is an unwarranted hostility

we could talk about how the taxiway alignment and exit locations are not the best at Dublin airport, but ultimately it's commanders responsibility to avoid these collisions.

It doesn't just happen at Dublin airport, ground collisions happen all over the place, anyone remembers this? - http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42548948/ns/travel-news/t/massive-jet-clips-spins-smaller-plane-jfk/#.VRvl6PnF-y4

bikeman1

I have been on over 100 Ryanair flights over the last 6 years. Anyone who flies with them regularly knows how fast a lot of pilots taxi in and out of stand. They always are pushed to get out on time or make up time. Compared with BA or EI, who appear much more cautious and taxi at lower speeds.

It is unfortunate that the pilots feel under such pressure, because when you are in a rush it is possible for an incident like today to happen.

The commander of the aircraft that clipped the other from behind is to blame. It is like driving a car. If you get a green light,; it doesn't automatically mean you plough on through, you make sure all is clear and your vehicle has a safe route past other vehicles.

ohnonotgmail

Carnacalla wrote: »

I have yet to hear of 2 Ryanair jets clipping wings for the second time in less than a year at any other airport.

do they have to be ryanair jets? or are collisions involving other airlines planes ok? cos there are plenty of those.

JCX BXC

martinsvi wrote: »

I agree, jumping to conclusions and blaming innocent people for something they're not responsible for really is an unwarranted hostility

Wow you have mastered the childish art of turning points around on a person.

I will make no further comment on this until/unless I see further details into this. Its obvious some users go by the rule of 'you must only post if your 100% accurate'.

JCX BXC

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do they have to be ryanair jets? or are collisions involving other airlines planes ok? cos there are plenty of those.

Give me at least one example of 2 separate incidents where 2 jets of the same airline clipped wings at one airport that's not older than 5 years.

martinsvi

Carnacalla wrote: »

Wow you have mastered the childish art of turning points around on a person.

I will make no further comment on this until/unless I see further details into this. Its obvious some users go by the rule of 'you must only post if your 100% accurate'.

in the Germanwings crash topic I noticed, that you do like to jump to conclusions, speculate a lot and so on. No one is saying what to post, all I'm suggesting is - slow down on the blame game, if you don't know something, these forums are here to ask, not a place where to make up your own "truth"

ohnonotgmail

Carnacalla wrote: »

Give me at least one example of 2 separate incidents where 2 jets of the same airline clipped wings at one airport that's not older than 5 years.

why is the fact they are both from the same airline important?

One plane hit another. More than likely one of the pilots was responsible.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Planes-Collide-at-JFK-Air-India-Jet-Clips-Wingtip-on-Jet-Blue-Aircraft-336036.shtml

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/23/southwest-jet-loses-wingtip-in-airport-collision/

here's one involving two planes from the same airline

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-collision-in-los-angeles-causes-millions-of-dollars-damage-20140228-33r3w.html


Need i go on?

duskyjoe

Is it another elevator off and rigging job? If so serious cash.....the honeycomb winglets not so.

galwayjohn89

There was the A380 clipping the small commuter jet in JFK, although that was much more serious, nearly flipped the commuter right round.

Growler!!!

Vuzuggu wrote: »

There was the A380 clipping the small commuter jet in JFK, although that was much more serious, nearly flipped the commuter right round.

http://youtu.be/y-d3wMImuWY

Indeed and the reason why you should never unbuckle your seatbelt until the sign is turned off:eek:

billie1b

Growler!!! wrote: »

Total blame lies with the crew. Who was at the controls? If you suspect there's not enough room as in this case then stop and query the instruction.

Funny thing is, people seem to be blaming ATC, if they listened to the recording of it they would hear that Ground gave the instruction to taxi onto Alpha (nearly sure it was Alpha) and beware/caution to the wing tip clearance with company traffic, yet the Capt still managed a collision. Totally agree, crew are to blame 100%, the wingtip is clearly visible through both flightdeck windows and it was fairly bright out too,

SpaceTime

Expensive mistake though. That will take two revenue generating aircraft out of service and run up a substantial (insured against) bill.

They would need to figure out why it happened. Too much of a coincidence !

Growler!!!

billie1b wrote: »

Funny thing is, people seem to be blaming ATC, if they listened to the recording of it they would hear that Ground gave the instruction to taxi onto Alpha (nearly sure it was Alpha) and beware/caution to the wing tip clearance with company traffic, yet the Capt still managed a collision. Totally agree, crew are to blame 100%, the wingtip is clearly visible through both flightdeck windows and it was fairly bright out too,

"People" are blaming ATC because that's what the ryanair press release said!

Tenger

Growler!!! wrote: »

"People" are blaming ATC because that's what the ryanair press release said!

Indeed, the FR press release states "both aircraft were under the control of DUB ATC at the time" (this was the same excuse for the last incident)
I'm with other poster above, the captains owns his aircraft while moving and should be responsible enough to query ATC instructions when appropriate.

You would think after the previous incident FR would issue a directive to flight crew to be vigilant at certain points while taxiing at DUB.

conzy

goingnowhere wrote: »

http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=EIDW 0600-0630 April 1

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/eidw/EIDW3-Apr-01-2015-0600Z.mp3

27 mins

This happens regularly at Heathrow at their holding areas, so much so it's included on their ground movement charts.

Ryanair would blame the milkman if he thought it would deflect and distract a few people.

The DAA airfield ops leaflet clearly states that aircraft and vehicle drivers/pilots have ultimate responsibility for interpreting and applying any ATC instruction.

There is two elements to this event, the first is a poor error of judgment by the pilot, he/she felt their was enough room to complete the movement even after ATC gave a caution about the proximity of the other aircraft, secondly, a poorly designed and laid out airport where too many taxiways meet and diverge at small angles causing issues like this at LINK 2 and A.

To blame ATC for this is naive and incorrect, if I stood in a car park and said to you as you were driving around in your 5 series that there is a parking spot over there but it might not be big enough for your car and you then go to that spot and try to park in it but clip the car beside yours mirror that it's my fault ?! I don't think so.

thelad95

Is this not an April Fools' joke?

martinsvi

thelad95 wrote: »

Is this not an April Fools' joke?

it totally is! I can't believe how many people fell for it with all the photoshopped pictures and fake atc recordings, and ryanair press releases ...

thelad95

thelad95 wrote: »

Is this not an April Fools' joke?

Of course it is, both the DAA, Ryanair and the IAA went to huge lengths to create damage to aircraft and got controllers to ham up a script with fire crew and Pilots.

goingnowhere

Sadly not, if you listen to the ATC tape

There is a warning from ATC to watch out for wing tip clearance to one of the aircraft involved from what I can make out from recording.

Captain is ultimately responsible for the safety and operation at all stages of flight

goingnowhere

goingnowhere wrote: »

Sadly not, if you listen to the ATC tape

There is a warning from ATC to watch out for wing tip clearance to one of the aircraft involved from what I can make out from recording.

Captain is ultimately responsible for the safety and operation at all stages of flight

Sadly that playback has at least 7 or 8 frequencies in one recording, it doesnt contain all of grounds transmissions.

thelad95

martinsvi wrote: »

it totally is! I can't believe how many people fell for it with all the photoshopped pictures and fake atc recordings, and ryanair press releases ...

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course it is, both the DAA, Ryanair and the IAA went to huge lengths to create damage to aircraft and got controllers to ham up a script with fire crew and Pilots.

Given the date, I'm still a bit sceptical. Could the pictures of the damage be from last October? I'll admit I'm not an aviation expert but when I saw an article on this I immediately just presumed April fools.

thelad95

thelad95 wrote: »

Given the date, I'm still a bit sceptical. Could the pictures of the damage be from last October? I'll admit I'm not an aviation expert but when I saw an article on this I immediately just presumed April fools.

Seriously !

Growler!!!

thelad95 wrote: »

Given the date, I'm still a bit sceptical. Could the pictures of the damage be from last October? I'll admit I'm not an aviation expert but when I saw an article on this I immediately just presumed April fools.

Could they? Well check the photos from last time then. Jeez.

bluemartin

sharkman wrote: »

Looks like 2 ryanairs have clipped each others wings again in the same spot on taxi way DA ...

Anyone know anything else about this?

They need to widen the runway

sjb25

bluemartin wrote: »

They need to widen the runway

This happened on a taxiway not a runway

bluemartin

sjb25 wrote: »

This happened on a taxiway not a runway

Widen the taxiway then, if it was wide enough they wouldn't be clipping off one another.

flanzer

I assume there was dual ops this morning and both runways were active? If Ryanair pilots weren't as pressured to squeeze every last second out of their leg, this wouldn't have happened

A Dub in Glasgo

My comment on the incident in October still stands

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92514493&postcount=78

'As someone with no experience of ground operations at an airfield but with extensive experience of railway signalling, I am a little surprised that airfields allow such movements to take place. This is akin to the clearance point in signalling and movement will not be authorised until that clearance point has been demonstrated to be clear. I suppose it would lock up airfields and some leeway is used. The issue then comes down to human factors and mistakes which will happen'

goingnowhere

flanzer wrote: »

I assume there was dual ops this morning and both runways were active? If Ryanair pilots weren't as pressured to squeeze every last second out of their leg, this wouldn't have happened

Dual 28/34 ops were in place