Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Part 2)

hinault · 28-03-2015 08:31PM

silverharp wrote: »

it tells me a couple of things , God didnt make any particular supernatural intervention

You don't know what God did do, or what God didn't do.

silverharp wrote: »

It tells me that christians have no particular moral radar and are as likely to vote in dictators and it also tells me that they dont really "have the spirit" as only a small number of people actually put their lives on the line for their faith.

Ostensibly enlisting and fighting for a regime which was clearly unchristian, makes those "christians" who did enlist not christian.

Toward the end of the war conscription was compulsory. Those who were conscripted probably do have some mitigation when it comes to having to account for what they did.

What about the "christians" who took part in the firebombing of Dresden and Hamburg? Were they as unchristian as those who were on the German side?

obplayer · 28-03-2015 08:33PM

How do you know that prayers didn't ensure the demise of 1,000 year Reich after 12 years? The fact is you don't know.

Evidence that it did? Oh, sorry, I forgot that religious people don't do evidence. They just "know".

hinault wrote: »

Evidence that it didn't?

Is there any evidence that disproves my theory that purple leprechauns were behind the defeat of Nazi Germany? No? purple leprechauns it is then.

hinault · 28-03-2015 08:47PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

It's people like hinault who are still butthurt that Franco and Salazar's regimes are no more.

Nope. I don't harbour any longing for the Franco or Salazar regimes

The fact is that by permitting avowed atheists to post in throughout the Christianity section of this website leaves me with no option, at a given point, to ignore atheist posters who refuse to engage in a meaningful exchange.

I make a point of telling those atheist posters of my decision.

hinault · 28-03-2015 08:49PM

obplayer wrote: »

Is there any evidence that disproves my theory that purple leprechauns were behind the defeat of Nazi Germany?.

Is there any evidence to prove your theory? The floor's yours.

obplayer · 28-03-2015 08:59PM

hinault wrote: »

Is there any evidence to prove your theory? The floor's yours.

I have as much evidence as you have of your theory of prayers bringing down the Nazis. None.

hinault · 28-03-2015 09:02PM

obplayer wrote: »

I have as much evidence as you have of your theory of prayers bringing down the Nazis. None.

Nope.

I'm saying that there were Christians who opposed Nazi Germany and who through their actions and through their prayers helped obliterate 1,000 Reich after 12 years.

You have zero proof or evidence for your theories that you post in this thread.

I won't be replying to you further.:)

jaffusmax · 28-03-2015 09:04PM

hinault wrote: »

Nope. I don't harbour any longing for the Franco or Salazar regimes

The fact is that by permitting avowed atheists to post in throughout the Christianity section of this website leaves me with no option, at a given point, to ignore atheist posters who refuse to engage in a meaningful exchange.

I make a point of telling those atheist posters of my decision.

You refuse to engage with anyone whom does not conform to your beliefs. Your posts prove that without question. You have a number of time denied cold facts place in front of you.

I don't know if I speak for others but when you place "atheists posters" on your ignore(naughty) list you prove the point the poster was making as it is you that cannot come up with a valid argument!

tommy2bad · 28-03-2015 09:04PM

silverharp wrote: »

you have a strange way of arguing. we are stuck with the fact that ignorant parents can raise ignorant kids but at the same time we live in an open society where there can be progression. the church is an obstacle but you seem to be saying ignore church prejudice because there are other types. And remember the church is made up of smart people not the kunckle draggers that beat gay people up outside pubs. Also the knuckle draggers do not lobby the government nor do they get media time.

Really? Knuckle draggers! Way to show respect!
I think this tangent has dragged it's knuckles along for long enough, if it's berating the church you want to engage in, find or start an appropriate thread. Something like " should the rcc be declared a terrorist organization" might be a suitable title.
I fail to see the relevance of this to evidence for God. Of course as we already agree theirs no empirical evidence and you refuse to accept any other kind, this thread is done.

jaffusmax · 28-03-2015 09:08PM

hinault wrote: »

Nope.

I'm saying that there were Christians who opposed Nazi Germany and who through their actions and through their prayers helped obliterate 1,000 Reich after 12 years.

You have zero proof or evidence for your theories that you post in this thread.

I won't be replying to you further.:)

Nonsense, how many deaths and prayers exactly did it take for god to take an interest?

Also you seem to forget very conveniently that "Atheist" Soviet Russia sacrificed more men in WW2 then any other army and liberated many concentration camps in the process! You do a great disservice to the brave non christains whom laid their lives down to liberate Europe from the Nazis!

MaxWig · 28-03-2015 09:09PM

jaffusmax wrote:

If religion gives people solace and a sense of warmth in the face of death then I am genuinely happy for them and wish them well but keep please keep their delusion to themselves . I draw the line at being told damnation awaits the rest of us when the curtain falls and that we need to repent and accept their god into our hearts. This is what religions do, it not uncommon to have priests hover near the dying to try and "save" a soul before it passes on!

Fair enough. But surely you see the irony in claiming that paradise awaits us if we lose religion. That evolution will save us from ourselves.
That we are bound for some utopian future. Nothing in human affairs suggests we are moving towards that.

jaffusmax · 28-03-2015 09:12PM

MaxWig wrote: »

Fair enough. But surely you see the irony in claiming that paradise awaits us if we lose religion. That evolution will save us from ourselves.
That we are bound for some utopian future. Nothing in human affairs suggests we are moving towards that.

I never said anywhere in any post that paradise awaits us if we lose religion.

MaxWig · 28-03-2015 09:19PM

jaffusmax wrote:

I never said anywhere in any post that paradise awaits us if we lose religion.

You suggested that religion was impeding our evolution, and that this things would be better for humanity as a whole if it was eradicated

jaffusmax · 28-03-2015 09:24PM

MaxWig wrote: »

You suggested that religion was impeding our evolution, and that this things would be better for humanity as a whole if it was eradicated

I do! Better off yes, by not being constrained by superstitious belief, but where did you get the notion I said Paradise? I will leave the belief in paradise to Theists!

MaxWig · 28-03-2015 09:39PM

jaffusmax wrote:

I do! Better off yes, by not being constrained by superstitious belief, but where did you get the notion I said Paradise? I will leave the belief in paradise to Theists!

Fair enough.
So what would be better in your view. How would things improve?

jaffusmax · 28-03-2015 09:53PM

MaxWig wrote: »

Fair enough.
So what would be better in your view. How would things improve?

I don't have those sort of answers and neither does religion. Remember it is religion that claims to have all the answers!

Lets say for starters we tax churches and divert the money to education and sciences, then we would have a better chance as a species to develop! And how about we take religion completely out of the education system and out of politics!

MaxWig · 28-03-2015 10:02PM

jaffusmax wrote:

I don't have those sort of answers and neither does religion. Remember it is religion that claims to have all the answers!

jaffusmax wrote:

Lets say for starters we tax churches and divert the money to education and sciences, then we would have a better chance as a species to develop! And how about we take religion completely out of the education system and out of politics!

So you think we'd be better off, but you can't say why.

But more money for schools would be good - think we can all get on board with that idea!

jaffusmax · 28-03-2015 10:05PM

MaxWig wrote: »

So you think we'd be better off, but you can't say why.

But more money for schools would be good - think we can all get on board with that idea!

You explain why we are better off with religion? I gave you my honest humble opinion!

Please remember am speaking for myself not all Atheists, there are far more qualified people then me to talk about how to advance the human species! As an Atheist I can confidently say we would be alot better off without religion holding us back!

MaxWig · 29-03-2015 12:13AM

jaffusmax wrote:

You explain why we are better off with religion? I gave you my honest humble opinion!

I don't believe religion will make a difference either way.
If people can learn to withstand the anxiety of life and death without recourse to scapegoating or victimisation then they will do it with or without religion.
Its like saying getting rid of drugs will eradicate human misery. Not realising which came first.

indioblack · 29-03-2015 03:11AM

tommy2bad wrote: »

Why would it be? I might have difficulty reconciling superman with reality but as God is not superman, that's not an issue. I think you presume I believe in some variation of superman, can't blame you, a lot of believers treat God like this and when Clark Kent / Jesus const come flying down to swoop them up, fix their kidney or fix it so United win the game fall back into blaming themselves or making excuses like it wasn't " for the best" .
That God has no trace in reality.

I think I follow you. For myself, this thread has turned circle again and it's back to "what kind of god?" - if any.

Harika · 29-03-2015 07:58AM

hinault wrote: »

Which translates to zero.

Nice that you cut the rest, where is your source?

Harika · 29-03-2015 08:01AM

MaxWig wrote: »

Finding a leader is never a problem for a group of humans. Stick fifty in a warehouse, lock the door, and call back 24/hours later. You'll see a leader

That happens in tv shows, not in reality.

silverharp · 29-03-2015 08:07AM

hinault wrote: »

Nope.

I'm saying that there were Christians who opposed Nazi Germany and who through their actions and through their prayers helped obliterate 1,000 Reich after 12 years.

You have zero proof or evidence for your theories that you post in this thread.

I won't be replying to you further.:)

thats a bit like the joke about god sending hurricanes to punish sinners but only in areas prone to hurricanes and during hurricane season.

galljga1 · 29-03-2015 08:14AM

hinault wrote: »

Nope. I don't harbour any longing for the Franco or Salazar regimes

The fact is that by permitting avowed atheists to post in throughout the Christianity section of this website leaves me with no option, at a given point, to ignore atheist posters who refuse to engage in a meaningful exchange.

I make a point of telling those atheist posters of my decision.

How many 'meaningful exchanges' have you left when your utterances have been proven to be utter nonsense? I must admit I am getting a little tired of the general 'I believe therefore I do not need or offer proof God exists' vs 'lack of belief, so no need to prove God does not exist'. Neither side will win, therefore it is pointless but maybe they get some pleasure out of knocking heads. But the general trend exhibited by your good self is to put forward a point of view, some of which I find quite bizarre, somebody takes up the debate and when they consistently counter your arguments, you take your ball and go home.

Very Mature.

galljga1 · 29-03-2015 08:16AM

hinault wrote: »

Nope.

I'm saying that there were Christians who opposed Nazi Germany and who through their actions and through their prayers helped obliterate 1,000 Reich after 12 years.

You have zero proof or evidence for your theories that you post in this thread.

I won't be replying to you further.:)

Another ball gone home.

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-03-2015 08:20AM

hinault wrote: »

Nope.

I'm saying that there were Christians who opposed Nazi Germany and who through their actions and through their prayers helped obliterate 1,000 Reich after 12 years.

You have zero proof or evidence for your theories that you post in this thread.

I won't be replying to you further.:)

So it was only Christians who fought and defeated the Nazi's?

Also i think you will find it was bullets and bombs that defeated them. What sort of "loving god" allows war to happen on that scale anyway? 70 million dead, and he could have stopped it with a mere thought :rolleyes:

jaffusmax · 29-03-2015 09:05AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So it was only Christians who fought and defeated the Nazi's?

Also i think you will find it was bullets and bombs that defeated them. What sort of "loving god" allows war to happen on that scale anyway? 70 million dead, and he could have stopped it with a mere thought :rolleyes:

The cristains were keeping their Prayers of Mass Destruction in silos until god felt fit to unleash their power!

But then god had to decide whether to support atheist Russia or the Nazis whom had Gott mit Uns

silverharp · 29-03-2015 09:22AM

jaffusmax wrote: »

The cristains were keeping their Prayers of Mass Destruction in silos until god felt fit to unleash their power!

But then god had to decide whether to support atheist Russia or the Nazis whom had Gott mit Uns

I think part of the problem was that if you measure prayers in a unit of measure say Prayons , at the start of the war there was a higher quantity of prayons that were pro Nazis , you had Germany , Austria and Italy (japan doesnt count because they were heathen) so god not really caring took the sides of the Nazis in the beginning. When the US joins now the quantity of prayons move in the Allies favour.

galljga1 · 29-03-2015 09:28AM

silverharp wrote: »

I think part of the problem was that if you measure prayers in a unit of measure say Prayons , at the start of the war there was a higher quantity of prayons that were pro Nazis , you had Germany , Austria and Italy (japan doesnt count because they were heathen) so god not really caring took the sides of the Nazis in the beginning. When the US joins now the quantity of prayons move in the Allies favour.

Prayons..quite good.

jaffusmax · 29-03-2015 09:34AM

silverharp wrote: »

I think part of the problem was that if you measure prayers in a unit of measure say Prayons , at the start of the war there was a higher quantity of prayons that were pro Nazis , you had Germany , Austria and Italy (japan doesnt count because they were heathen) so god not really caring took the sides of the Nazis in the beginning. When the US joins now the quantity of prayons move in the Allies favour.

One minor correction not only was Japan a religious state but Emperor Hirohito was its Living God! Did Atheist Russia and China give negative Prayons although god deemed to have the majority of civilian causalities come from these two countries?

MaxWig · 29-03-2015 09:47AM

Harika wrote:

That happens in tv shows, not in reality.

U think? I'll disagree with you respectfully. Group dynamics are well studied. We elect leaders in any group. Very quickly.

Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Part 2)

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