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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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Comments

  • #4142
    Moonriver99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭Moonriver99


    Now, let it go Robert. It's really not relevant to this debate but I would urge to to have a look at the articles in History Ireland - their back issues are available free on-line.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed this is not relevant. And in my experience when people are not making sense or sling an argument, they bring in other things to confuse us all. I didn't read all 200 pages of this so I was getting a little lost :) The relevance is this vote. The relevance is human rights. The relevance is allowing two people marry and in this day and it will be a hugely sad day for ireland if it doesn't go through. The eyes of the world will be watching to see what we do.


  • #4143
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,001 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    At this afternoon's Amnesty meeting, a warning note was given by Colm O'Gorman about the possible outcome of the referendum. He advised us on what was possible if only around 45 percent of the voting population turned out to cast their ballots and there was about a 22 percent NO vote, the referendum would be lost. That would mean the unwritten "heterosexuals only need apply" marriage rule would stay put in our constitution. It is necessary for all pro SSM voters to turn out and vote yes on the 22 May. Stay-at-home or neutral stances on the issue will be as effective in sinking the referendum as the NO vote. I hope that those amongst you who have relatives and friends with the vote ask them to come out and vote yes that day.


  • #4144
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    Moonriver99 wrote: »
    The eyes of the world will be watching to see what we do.

    As a nation we have an obsession that the world is monitoring us.
    Would be nice to think that the actions of 4.4m people would be monitored by even a quarter of the 8 billion people on this planet, or they may just be getting on with their lives, paying taxes etc etc.


  • #4145
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    Flem31 wrote: »
    As a nation we have an obsession that the world is monitoring us.
    Would be nice to think that the actions of 4.4m people would be monitored by even a quarter of the 8 billion people on this planet, or they may just be getting on with their lives, paying taxes etc etc.

    Ahh but Flem31, people are capable of getting on with their lives and observing the major news stories in Ireland. A great many people left this country because they were gay, or had family members who were gay, and could not live in a country that oppressed homosexuals through 'tradition'. I'm pretty sure they'll be interested to see how much their birth nation has matured.

    Heck I manage to get on with my life and monitor how the Obama administration are getting on, and I'm pretty busy.


  • #4146
    Moonriver99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭Moonriver99


    Flem31 wrote: »
    As a nation we have an obsession that the world is monitoring us.
    Would be nice to think that the actions of 4.4m people would be monitored by even a quarter of the 8 billion people on this planet, or they may just be getting on with their lives, paying taxes etc etc.

    If that's what you pick up on in my post instead of the other nice things I said and hVe said through out my posts fine. But it is a big deal in the moment, yes they will get on with their lives just like most people do. However it's significant. It's the small things that lead to the bigger things and eventually into a more tolerant society.


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  • #4147
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    Moonriver99 wrote: »
    If that's what you pick up on in my post instead of the other nice things I said and hVe said through out my posts fine. But it is a big deal in the moment, yes they will get on with their lives just like most people do. However it's significant. It's the small things that lead to the bigger things and eventually into a more tolerant society.

    It is significant in the Republic of Ireland where the vote is taking place.


  • #4148
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Flem31 wrote: »
    It is significant in the Republic of Ireland where the vote is taking place.

    I would think it has a much wider audience that that .


  • #4149
    Moonriver99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭Moonriver99


    Flem31 wrote: »
    It is significant in the Republic of Ireland where the vote is taking place.

    How do you know? got some sort of unique ability to say only in ireland we care? plenty of irish in Australia and all around the world with gay friends. They will care. All the gay community will take note...their lives won't stop but they will see it as significant if old catholic ireland can move forward.


  • #4150
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    Zen65 wrote: »
    Ahh but Flem31, people are capable of getting on with their lives and observing the major news stories in Ireland. A great many people left this country because they were gay, or had family members who were gay, and could not live in a country that oppressed homosexuals through 'tradition'. I'm pretty sure they'll be interested to see how much their birth nation has matured.

    Heck I manage to get on with my life and monitor how the Obama administration are getting on, and I'm pretty busy.

    The comment was the eyes of the world which suggests a lot more than the Irish who have emigrated to other countries.

    Re keeping up with Obama......is it that hard to do ?, lot of talk, then more talk, and then some more


  • #4151
    Moonriver99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭Moonriver99


    Flem31 wrote: »
    It is significant in the Republic of Ireland where the vote is taking place.

    Honestly? You believe that people won't think it's a huge step that catholic ireland will say yes to a vote that will see our whole world change for the better. It's part of a puzzle for a better world. It's not going to directly affect people but it will make them see we are forward thinking. They also will continue to pay taxes lol.


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  • #4152
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Flem31 wrote: »
    It is significant in the Republic of Ireland where the vote is taking place.

    This is the first time the issue has been put to a popular vote any where in the world so yes, there will be a lot of people on both sides of the debate watching across the world - and George Takai.
    I assume you think the fact that Panti has gone global after her Noble Call is a coincidence?

    Did you also tell people in Scotland that the world wasn't watching their independence referendum? Because if you did you were dead wrong. It was a global story.


  • #4153
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    marienbad wrote: »
    I would think it has a much wider audience that that .

    It is significant in Ireland, and varying degrees of interest beyond that for certain people living elsewhere and that interest will depend of their own individual circumstances.

    To say the eyes of the world is watching us is a big leap


  • #4154
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    Zen65 wrote: »
    A great many people left this country because they were gay, or had family members who were gay, and could not live in a country that oppressed homosexuals through 'tradition'. I'm pretty sure they'll be interested to see how much their birth nation has matured.

    I wouldn't want to pretend that the homophobia we have collectively embraced for centuries never affected me. Many years (decades, in fact) after I graduated college I learned that some of my classmates with whom I spent a lot of time were gay. All of them emigrated. I wince when I remember the sort of anti-gay jokes I used to share in my college days, and wonder how much my behaviour may have affected them. Worse than that, I now realise that if I'd been even remotely clued in as a younger man I should have realised that these guys were gay and edited my behaviour to avoid offending them. I didn't, and I'm pretty sure that my behaviour, and that of many of my classmates, was intimidating to those guys and girls.

    I'm a lot older now. I know people whose sons and daughters have told them they were gay, and I realise that I have family relations who are gay. My understanding has reached a point where I see how unfair our society has been to these people, and how I personally played a role in that by blindly following the 'traditional' banter of the time. I would never pretend that I am fully comfortable seeing gay and lesbian displays of affection, but I am absolutely comfortable with the idea that it is me who has the problem, and that it is only fair and just that our society stop discriminating against the LGBT community and afford them the same dignity and respect we so willingly afford those whose sexual tastes are the same as our own.


  • #4155
    Moonriver99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭Moonriver99


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    This is the first time the issue has been put to a popular vote any where in the world so yes, there will be a lot of people on both sides of the debate watching across the world - and George Takai.
    I assume you think the fact that Panti has gone global after her Noble Call is a coincidence?

    Did you also tell people in Scotland that the world wasn't watching their independence referendum? Because if you did you were dead wrong. It was a global story.

    Excellent point bannsidhe. I noted the Scottish election and a lot of irish people on twitter did too. See, flem??? Do understand that people take interest. Maybe you wouldn't care about current affairs around the world but you are in the minority


  • #4156
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    Flem31 wrote: »
    To say the eyes of the world is watching us is a big leap

    We'll see, shall we?


  • #4157
    B_Wayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭B_Wayne


    Flem31 wrote: »
    It is significant in Ireland, and varying degrees of interest beyond that for certain people living elsewhere and that interest will depend of their own individual circumstances.

    To say the eyes of the world is watching us is a big leap

    Most outcomes of such referendums get much greater press as it's highly relatable for people regardless of where they are in the world. Plus it is highly topical, so yep it will likely get much international attention. Given the fact we were a socially conservative nation in the past would increase the international attention.


  • #4158
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    This is the first time the issue has been put to a popular vote any where in the world so yes, there will be a lot of people on both sides of the debate watching across the world - and George Takai.
    I assume you think the fact that Panti has gone global after her Noble Call is a coincidence?

    Did you also tell people in Scotland that the world wasn't watching their independence referendum? Because if you did you were dead wrong. It was a global story.

    Don't have any issue with the idea that a "lot of people" will be watching, but it will be largely interested parties and I don't believe the majority of the 8 billion people on this planet will be monitoring our vote.


  • #4159
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    Zen65 wrote: »
    We'll see, shall we?

    Yes we will :)


  • #4160
    Moonriver99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭Moonriver99


    Flem31 wrote: »
    Don't have any issue with the idea that a "lot of people" will be watching, but it will be largely interested parties and I don't believe the majority of the 8 billion people on this planet will be monitoring our vote.

    My god flem , you are like a dog with a bone. Did I say eight billion people. You do know 'the eyes of the world will be watching' does not have to mean literally. It's an expression. You know full well what I mean and I don't mean that Sherpas in Mount Everest are watching or every living human being. You are taking it out of context. Lolol


  • #4161
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    Moonriver99 wrote: »
    My god flem , you are like a dog with a bone. Did I say eight billion people. You do know 'the eyes of the world will be watching' does not have to mean literally. It's an expression. You know full well what I mean and I don't mean that Sherpas in Mount Everest are watching or every living human being. You are taking it out of context. Lolol

    So what you mean't to say is that there will be some attention from media and interested parties from outside Ireland.
    The eyes may well be looking elsewhere :)


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  • #4162
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Flem31 wrote: »
    Don't have any issue with the idea that a "lot of people" will be watching, but it will be largely interested parties and I don't believe the majority of the 8 billion people on this planet will be monitoring our vote.

    I don't think anyone said every single pair of human eyes on the planet will be watching. It was 'the eyes of the world' rather than 'all the eyes of the world'.
    It will be mentioned and commented upon on all of the major news networks -( Fox will no doubt have a map of Scotland when it is discussing the referendum in Wales and speaking to David Quinn live from Devon :pac:) - Reuters will carry the story, it will get column inches in most major newspapers.
    How many people around the world do you think watch Al jazeera, Sky news, BBC news, ITN, Bloomberg etc? How many people read The Guardian, New York Times, Boston Globe, Sydney Morning Herald, Huffingston Post etc etc.

    Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say ' there will be eyes across the world watching this' but that would be overly pedantic when 'the world is watching' is a common phrase and few, if anyone bar yourself, thinks that means everyone is watching.


  • #4163
    Jezek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Jezek


    Flem31 wrote: »
    So what you mean't to say is that there will be some attention from media and interested parties from outside Ireland.
    The eyes may well be looking elsewhere :)

    you cracked it - language CAN be used in a non-literal way! People's eye won't LITERALLY be turned towards the physical location of Ireland...


  • #4164
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    A large proportion of the western world will be taking an interest in it though. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

    The world has now shrunk to the western world and I agree some will take an interest.
    However if is not in the news bulletin after the result is announced, the majority of people in the western world wont be aware that it took place.


  • #4165
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Jezek wrote: »
    you cracked it - language CAN be used in a non-literal way! People's eye won't LITERALLY be turned towards the physical location of Ireland...

    I'm planning on lying in the gutter and looking at the stars.


  • #4166
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I don't think anyone said every single pair of human eyes on the planet will be watching. It was 'the eyes of the world' rather than 'all the eyes of the world'.
    It will be mentioned and commented upon on all of the major news networks -( Fox will no doubt have a map of Scotland when it is discussing the referendum in Wales and speaking to David Quinn live from Devon :pac:) - Reuters will carry the story, it will get column inches in most major newspapers.
    How many people around the world do you think watch Al jazeera, Sky news, BBC news, ITN, Bloomberg etc? How many people read The Guardian, New York Times, Boston Globe, Sydney Morning Herald, Huffingston Post etc etc.

    Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say ' there will be eyes across the world watching this' but that would be overly pedantic when 'the world is watching' is a common phrase and few, if anyone bar yourself, thinks that means everyone is watching.

    As per my earlier comment, we have this obsession that the world monitors us.

    There will be probably less than 1% of the world's population paying any attention to this vote. Now that's about 20 times the population of the 26 counties so that's a lot of people.
    The people outside of Ireland paying attention are media and interested parties.


  • #4167
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    Jezek wrote: »
    you cracked it - language CAN be used in a non-literal way! People's eye won't LITERALLY be turned towards the physical location of Ireland...

    Agree......can also be used to exaggerate


  • #4168
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Zen65 wrote: »
    I wouldn't want to pretend that the homophobia we have collectively embraced for centuries never affected me.

    Hopefully we have seen the last of this and it has no influence on younger generations.

    My six year old son obviously doesn't understand intimate relationships beyond the context of being girlfriend/boyfriend, married and 'mummy and daddy'. I have talked to him previously about the fact that couples are not always a man and a woman but sometimes two men or two women. This conversation was a long time ago and I'm pretty sure I never mentioned the word 'gay'.

    A couple of weeks ago he said "Mummy I know what gay means". To be honest my initial thought was "Oh **** what has he heard in that ****en Catholic school", so I asked calmly what he thinks it means. He said "It means a man gets married to a man or a woman gets married to a woman". The end. Nothing else to it. He said it as if the whole issue has about as much significance as people's preferences between different crisp flavours. It made me feel hopeful and optimistic about future generations.


  • #4169
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    What an utterly meaningless statement.

    Why ?


  • #4170
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Flem31 wrote: »
    It is significant in the Republic of Ireland where the vote is taking place.

    Actually it's much more wider significance than that. It is the first country in the world where the entire nation is voting in a referendum to remove the ban on same sex marriage. America will be watching, Europe will be watching and you can guarantee it will be mentioned on Eurovision.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #4171
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Flem31 wrote: »
    It is significant in Ireland, and varying degrees of interest beyond that for certain people living elsewhere and that interest will depend of their own individual circumstances.

    To say the eyes of the world is watching us is a big leap

    It's really not a big leap at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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