Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

LXFlyer · 19-03-2015 04:31PM

MOH wrote: »

Heard a new automated announcement for the first time yesterday on one of the newer buses, advising passengers that they should exit through the centre doors only.
Gold help any unwitting tourists who assumed they should actually obey instructions, given that the centre doors never opened once while I was on the bus.

While DB have been getting a lot of the macro issues sorted out, it's this sort of lack of attention to detail that just makes me want to bang my head off the wall.

It's the kind of thing that just makes the company look plain daft.

ITV2 · 19-03-2015 05:10PM

MOH wrote: »

Heard a new automated announcement for the first time yesterday on one of the newer buses, advising passengers that they should exit through the centre doors only.
Gold help any unwitting tourists who assumed they should actually obey instructions, given that the centre doors never opened once while I was on the bus.

Funny enough this morning on a full bus the driver used the centre doors for most stops on my journey, the passengers walked up to the front doors completely ignoring the centre doors. I thought to myself why did he bother.

bk · 19-03-2015 05:27PM

ITV2 wrote: »

Funny enough this morning on a full bus the driver used the centre doors for most stops on my journey, the passengers walked up to the front doors completely ignoring the centre doors. I thought to myself why did he bother.

You really can't blame the passengers for this. They have been brain washed for years that the rear doors aren't used and that they should always use the front doors and make their way forward as quickly as possible or they will miss their stop.

I've often watched foreign tourists stand by the rear door, waiting for it to open so they can exit and then look all confused when it doesn't and scramble forward to exit. Thus teaching them to ignore that door, like everyone else in Dublin always does!

Even today, the rear doors are rarely used, so people don't even think to check if they are open. The design of the new buses also doesn't help with it putting the rear door well behind the stairs, so people coming down the stairs don't notice that it is open! It would be better if the rear doors were directly across from the stairs, so you naturally flow out of it when open.

DB needs to consistently start using both doors 100% of the time at all stops and then people will gradually learn to trust that they can actually use the rear door and will wait by it, rather then moving forward.

It will take time to change, but you can't expect people to use the rear doors when Dublin Bus doesn't use them most of the time!

end of the road · 19-03-2015 06:55PM

bk wrote: »

You really can't blame the passengers for this. They have been brain washed for years that the rear doors aren't used and that they should always use the front doors and make their way forward as quickly as possible or they will miss their stop.

brainwashed? or making up their own minds not to use them? god forbid they should make their own decisians. look, we get it, your annoyed over the centre doors not being used, thats fine, but not only has it been explained to you why they can't be used, reasons excepted by the NTA by the looks of it, but lets not try make out people are stupid and can't make their own decisians.

bk wrote: »

DB needs to consistently start using both doors 100% of the time at all stops and then people will gradually learn to trust that they can actually use the rear door and will wait by it, rather then moving forward.

they will do so when stops are set up for them.

_Kaiser_ · 19-03-2015 10:13PM

bk wrote: »

Even today, the rear doors are rarely used, so people don't even think to check if they are open. The design of the new buses also doesn't help with it putting the rear door well behind the stairs, so people coming down the stairs don't notice that it is open! It would be better if the rear doors were directly across from the stairs, so you naturally flow out of it when open.

+1.. the interior layout is extremely poor in this regard - the (few!) dual-door Airlink AV's were the same.. rear door placed beyond the stairwell.

The older RA/RH/RV's had this right (as indeed did the KD's if I remember right).. the rear doors were directly across from the stairs. It seems that logic and natural flow has now been replaced by on-board gimmicks/annoyances instead.

punisher5112 · 19-03-2015 10:22PM

When designing a bus they dont seem to get any input from the people that actually have to drive them or use them for that matter.

As I have said before the last big buy from 2012 on have been poor in my opinion.

LXFlyer · 19-03-2015 10:28PM

The exact same buses operate in London, and the centre doors work ok. People go left at the bottom of the stairs.

The issue is that, until you have full operation of entry by exit door at every single stop (rather than some drivers using them and others not, or them being used only at certain stops), then people are not going to naturally head left rather than right having come down the stairs. They are going to do what they always have done.

And courtesy of the Labour Court ruling, that's not going to happen until we have a situation where the drivers can no longer claim that stops are not safe, which in my view, is going to require a full safety audit (including possible relocation) of all bus stops.

I'd consider that putting the centre doors directly across from the stairs would not be viewed as particularly safe as if someone fell, they could continue falling out of the bus.

punisher5112 · 19-03-2015 10:35PM

Don't forget the extra stress and trouble the centre door brings to the already overcrowded party.

Doors been abused where they are been opened by others(not the driver)
I had this happen a good few times on the RV's. both inside and out.

People are jumping on through centre doors quite a lot to avoid paying.
There is the added risk of people getting caught in door and so on.

MOH · 19-03-2015 10:40PM

end of the road wrote: »

brainwashed? or making up their own minds not to use them? god forbid they should make their own decisians. look, we get it, your annoyed over the centre doors not being used, thats fine, but not only has it been explained to you why they can't be used, reasons excepted by the NTA by the looks of it, but lets not try make out people are stupid and can't make their own decisians.

they will do so when stops are set up for them.

So why on earth are DB making announcements telling people to use them?

end of the road · 19-03-2015 10:50PM

MOH wrote: »

So why on earth are DB making announcements telling people to use them?

i don't know, i'd imagine they were just put in to get the P.A. system set up without having to add more things later on, but that is just a guess. i'd agree those anouncements should be removed from the system or if possible disabled until centre door operation is up and running on a route to avoid unnecessary confusion

KD345 · 19-03-2015 11:35PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

When designing a bus they dont seem to get any input from the people that actually have to drive them or use them for that matter.

As I have said before the last big buy from 2012 on have been poor in my opinion.

As far as I know there is a Dublin Bus design committee made up of union members, drivers and other company officials. They also take guidance from disability groups. This committee have made many changes to the vehicle specifications, some of which are unique to Dublin's buses.

punisher5112 · 20-03-2015 12:22AM

KD345 wrote: »

As far as I know there is a Dublin Bus design committee made up of union members, drivers and other company officials. They also take guidance from disability groups. This committee have made many changes to the vehicle specifications, some of which are unique to Dublin's buses.

Well they definitely are not designed for or by a driver.

I understand some will have different needs and so on but the gt design hasn't changed in well over 10 years.

You would think faults and design flaws would be rectified now at this stage.

Some nice additions added but a lot of things not so great.

cdebru · 20-03-2015 08:23AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

+1.. the interior layout is extremely poor in this regard - the (few!) dual-door Airlink AV's were the same.. rear door placed beyond the stairwell.

The older RA/RH/RV's had this right (as indeed did the KD's if I remember right).. the rear doors were directly across from the stairs. It seems that logic and natural flow has now been replaced by on-board gimmicks/annoyances instead.

The doors are there because of the provision of a wheelchair space which was not provided on the R type buses, whilst you may view a wheelchair space as an annoying gimmick, I'm sure those who require them view them as an absolute necessity. The problem is as lxflyer points out people naturally presume they will exit from the front if /when we get to the point where people presume they will exit from the center doors they will naturally head there as they do in other jurisdictions where center doors are used.

Icepick · 21-03-2015 01:38PM

Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

Only in very limited cases.
I'll take the bus to travel to town during the weekends because I am not in a hurry and the cost doesn't bother me in the long run.
But for commuting it either wastes too much time, costs too much or both.

VG31 · 21-03-2015 02:39PM

cdebru wrote: »

The doors are there because of the provision of a wheelchair space which was not provided on the R type buses, whilst you may view a wheelchair space as an annoying gimmick, I'm sure those who require them view them as an absolute necessity.

Why not change the bus design to the London one where the wheelchair bay is opposite the middle doors like on DM2?

KD345 · 21-03-2015 03:15PM

VG31 wrote: »

Why not change the bus design to the London one where the wheelchair bay is opposite the middle doors like on DM2?

Moving the wheelchair space doesn't change the location of the staircase. I think that's the issue some have - they want to come down the stairs and face the doors.

The centre doors on DM2 are wheelchair accessible, but this is not something which would work in Dublin, which is why the Dublin Bus spec keeps wheelchairs to the front of the bus.

VG31 · 21-03-2015 03:18PM

KD345 wrote: »

Moving the wheelchair space doesn't change the location of the staircase. I think that's the issue some have - they want to come down the stairs and face the doors.

But you can move the doors forward a bit then like on DM2.

KD345 wrote: »

The centre doors on DM2 are wheelchair accessible, but this is not something which would work in Dublin, which is why the Dublin Bus spec keeps wheelchairs to the front of the bus.

You could have the wheelchair bay opposite the middle doors but still have the ramp at the front doors.

You can see from this photo of DM2 that the centre doors are further forward.

end of the road · 21-03-2015 03:55PM

VG31 wrote: »

But you can move the doors forward a bit then like on DM2.

You could have the wheelchair bay opposite the middle doors but still have the ramp at the front doors.

You can see from this photo of DM2 that the centre doors are further forward.

again its not workable. the reason being the wheelchair needs to be able to exit quickly from the bus. they can't if they are stuck at the centre door with no ramp. maybe when stops are sorted out which will hopefully happen having a ramp at the centre door could be considered

cdebru · 21-03-2015 04:38PM

KD345 wrote: »

Moving the wheelchair space doesn't change the location of the staircase. I think that's the issue some have - they want to come down the stairs and face the doors.

The centre doors on DM2 are wheelchair accessible, but this is not something which would work in Dublin, which is why the Dublin Bus spec keeps wheelchairs to the front of the bus.

But surely you are not saying there is a difference between the front door and the center doors ? Everyone here already knows that if it is safe to get off at the front door it is equally safe to exit from the center door, so why oh why are the NTA not buying buses with center door ramps ? It couldn't possibly be because they know their stops are not suitable for center door use could it ?

Is there another explanation as to why the NTA spec the buses they buy with a ramp only at the front door, that they insist that wheelchair passengers or anyone else needing to use the ramp must exit through the front door ?

cdebru · 21-03-2015 04:44PM

VG31 wrote: »

But you can move the doors forward a bit then like on DM2.

You could have the wheelchair bay opposite the middle doors but still have the ramp at the front doors.

You can see from this photo of DM2 that the centre doors are further forward.

With the wheelchair having to go against the flow of people coming down the stairs and exiting through the center door as well as then going against the flow of people boarding and being right opposite an open door with no wheelchair access, sounds like an accident.waiting to happen.

Why do you think they shouldn't just put a ramp on the center door and let wheel chair users exit that way ? More importantly can someone tell us what do they do in Krakow ?

bk · 22-03-2015 10:59PM

cdebru wrote: »

Why do you think they shouldn't just put a ramp on the center door and let wheel chair users exit that way ? More importantly can someone tell us what do they do in Krakow ?

Depends on the model. On the Bendy buses and small sized single deckers it is by the middle doors. On the normal sized single deckers (like the old 123 buses) it is through the front doors.

Most buses used in Poland are made by Solaris Bus, you can check them out here:

http://www.solarisbus.com/

Really very nice buses.

petronius · 24-03-2015 04:10PM

forgot my leap card and had to take 2 buses across town and back - next to no change(on tickets) from a tenner only to return to see my leap card on my doorstep.
I think for the service it is a bit over priced, I would also like to see sensible unitary prices, 50cent 1euro, 1.50, 2. 2.50 rathern than 1.95 etc

cdebru · 25-03-2015 04:34AM

petronius wrote: »

forgot my leap card and had to take 2 buses across town and back - next to no change(on tickets) from a tenner only to return to see my leap card on my doorstep.
I think for the service it is a bit over priced, I would also like to see sensible unitary prices, 50cent 1euro, 1.50, 2. 2.50 rathern than 1.95 etc

The awkward cash fares seem to be an actual tactic by the NTA to make cash fares unappealing, the previous €3.05 adult fare DB actually applied for a €3 but the NTA approved a €3.05 fare.

howiya · 25-03-2015 10:52AM

cdebru wrote: »

The awkward cash fares seem to be an actual tactic by the NTA to make cash fares unappealing, the previous €3.05 adult fare DB actually applied for a €3 but the NTA approved a €3.05 fare.

They also increase revenue as many people will not visit O'Connell Street to obtain their change

_Kaiser_ · 25-03-2015 11:43AM

howiya wrote: »

They also increase revenue as many people will not visit O'Connell Street to obtain their change

Which in itself is nonsense.. you should be able to claim it back at any authorised ticket seller, or better yet present it when you're buying your next ticket and have it credited against it.

LXFlyer · 25-03-2015 12:59PM

howiya wrote: »

They also increase revenue as many people will not visit O'Connell Street to obtain their change

Ah yes, this old canard raises its head again.

Uncollected change receipts do not increase company revenue.

All change receipt monies are ring fenced as a liability in the company's accounts and does not form any part of revenue. If they are not collected after a certain number of years they would go into the various charity programmes that Dublin Bus have.

howiya · 25-03-2015 01:49PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Ah yes, this old canard raises its head again.

Uncollected change receipts do not increase company revenue.

All change receipt monies are ring fenced as a liability in the company's accounts and does not form any part of revenue. If they are not collected after a certain number of years they would go into the various charity programmes that Dublin Bus have.

There should be a zero sum effect on the companies' balance sheet. The retained cash (asset) should be equal to the amount owed (liability) to passengers/customers.

Given that Dublin Bus didn't have any cash at hand or bank at 31 December 2013 and reported an overdraft per their annual report, this is clearly not happening and the uncollected change is being used to run the company.

In 2014 €120,000 was awarded in Community Support Grants by Dublin Bus. This in contrast to the €1 million annually that goes uncollected by Dublin Bus users

LXFlyer · 25-03-2015 02:08PM

howiya wrote: »

There should be a zero sum effect on the companies' balance sheet. The retained cash (asset) should be equal to the amount owed (liability) to passengers/customers.

Given that Dublin Bus didn't have any cash at hand or bank at 31 December 2013 and reported an overdraft per their annual report, this is clearly not happening and the uncollected change is being used to run the company.

In 2014 €120,000 was awarded in Community Support Grants by Dublin Bus. This in contrast to the €1 million annually that goes uncollected by Dublin Bus users

But it is NOT revenue as you suggested - there remains a liability for that money.

howiya · 25-03-2015 02:13PM

lxflyer wrote: »

But it is NOT revenue as you suggested - there remains a liability for that money.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revenue?s=t

Points 3, 5 and 6 should help you

howiya · 25-03-2015 02:40PM

Last week I engaged with Dublin Bus on twitter. At the end of the conversation they provided an email address to use if I wished to make a complaint.

Checked in with them today a week after sending the email and they have advised that it can take up to 15 working days to reply to an email.

Any other company wouldn't have any customers left if they behaved like that

Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

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