Monitoring gas meter - Landis & Gyr E6S

zagmund · 15-07-2014 03:18PM

I already do that. I'm looking for greater granularity. For me it's a hobby sort of thing. If I can't do it then nothing bad will happen, but it would be good to be able to do it.

Meter manufacturers provide this sort of function because there's a demand for it. It can theoretically help with overall efficiency, assuming I analyse the data I get, correlate with resulting room temperatures, external temperatures, etc . . . But first I have to record it in enough detail.

z

maurice1 · 15-07-2014 06:01PM

@Zagmund, I am not planning on interfering with the L&G meter at all. Just add a photodiode TXRX to the front window on the meter. The photos i put up is a spare meter I found in the UK and stripped down

antoinolachtnai · 15-07-2014 07:09PM

maurice1 wrote: »

If we presume that it is IEC1107, do you have an idea for the sketch to run to serial.read, and serial.write commands ?

http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=119247.0 - might be a start?

zagmund · 15-07-2014 09:09PM

Thanks for the clarification, just checking.

So, do we know what is between the "Adaptive" and "E6S"? From what has been said above it sounds like it is a pulse output of some form, but I've never seen it flash. I did consider it originally when investigating, but I guess I forgot about it and didn't pursue.

Did someone mention infrared somewhere? If it's infrared then I'm sure that we can hack something up to record it. I have my Arduino monitoring the electricity consumption, so hacking the code a little to get it to monitor this shouldn't be beyond me/us assuming someone has an IR receiver.

In terms of the monitoring, I reckon that mounting the device on the outside of the box, with the receiver fitted through a hole in the box should be OK. It's not like it's attached to the meter, or the cabling, just to the door.

z

Dardania · 15-07-2014 09:36PM

What about a heat meter? And apply a standard efficiency value to the kWh consumption of heat to get kWh consumption of gas?

http://www.meters.co.uk/heat/hcm-4000-pulsed-output

antoinolachtnai · 15-07-2014 09:53PM

zagmund wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification, just checking.

So, do we know what is between the "Adaptive" and "E6S"? From what has been said above it sounds like it is a pulse output of some form, but I've never seen it flash. I did consider it originally when investigating, but I guess I forgot about it and didn't pursue.

It probably doesn't flash, and if it does flash it flashes an infrared flash.

It most likely has a little communications protocol of its own which is conveyed over infrared. It is a two-way protocol most likely.

Working with the protocol is likely to be the biggest problem, and it may be that the meter is 'locked' so you can only get data off it using a password.

Did someone mention infrared somewhere? If it's infrared then I'm sure that we can hack something up to record it. I have my Arduino monitoring the electricity consumption, so hacking the code a little to get it to monitor this shouldn't be beyond me/us assuming someone has an IR receiver.

In terms of the monitoring, I reckon that mounting the device on the outside of the box, with the receiver fitted through a hole in the box should be OK. It's not like it's attached to the meter, or the cabling, just to the door.

You can buy the optical leads or make 'em. They have both send and receive. They are a standard thing in the meter industry.

maurice1 · 15-07-2014 10:33PM

I reckon antoinolachtnai is on the right track, As we know from the photos I posted on dropbox there is a receiving DB and transmitting T0 photodiode on the both PCBs, so as there is no LED there can be no pulses

I will try and make up http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?PHPSESSID=nu7vo733nq9aihqputogg96bj0&action=dlattach;topic=119247.0;attach=44151;image over the next few days, and attach it to an Arduino TX RX on Digital 0 RX and Digital 1TX.

However the sketch for the arduino is the problem. Can any of you write a sketch which would read.serial and write.serial in IEC1107 ?

zagmund · 15-07-2014 11:28PM

Given a sufficient amount of time I'm sure I could give it a stab, but I wouldn't rely on my programming ability to actually get it done if you are in a rush. My timescales on this project have been measured in years to date, but I'm up for it.

I'll look into IEC1107.

Has anyone actually read *anything* off the meter, regardless of whether it is gibberish or not? My approach typically is to get something working as a first step (register anything at all) and then worry about what it's saying/what format it is in.

z

gctest50 · 15-07-2014 11:40PM

zagmund wrote: »

.........

Did someone mention infrared somewhere? If it's infrared then I'm sure that we can hack something up to record it.

"look" at it with the camera on your phone - you might see it

http://www.lirc.org/

.

antoinolachtnai · 15-07-2014 11:48PM

maurice1 wrote: »

However the sketch for the arduino is the problem. Can any of you write a sketch which would read.serial and write.serial in IEC1107 ?

I am looking at the following from http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=profile;u=160447;sa=showPosts

In terms of code, I don't know anything much about arduino, but I think it might well be as simple as this.

a.

Serial.println("Meter type");

byte cmd[] = {0xAF,0x3F,0x21,0x8D,0x0A}; // query the meter for data "/?!"+<13><10>
iskSer.write (cmd,5);

byte a;
while (iskSer.available() > 0)
{
a = iskSer.read() & 0x7F; // cheap way of converting from 8N1 to 7E1
char b = a; // convert serial byte to ASCII character
Serial.print(b);
}
}
Serial.println();

maurice1 · 16-07-2014 05:22PM

I took the photodiode and phototransistor off the prepayment accessory that I got.
I mounted them on veroboard and attached them to an Deumilanove using D2 and D3.

I then used <SoftwareSerial.h> sketch and tried it out.
I sent all the codes IEC1107 we mentioned over the last 3 pages through the monitor but no Joy.

I believe that my soldering is OK as when i use "Blink" on Pin 3 TX diode, I can see it flash on my phone camera.

When I point a philips remote control at the RX I get loads of Y with the 2 dots over them on the serial monitor.

Maybe as antoinolachtnai suggested it is DLMS

maybe if someone had a moment they could google the L&G USB200 or the AIS200 probes to find out their protocol

Dtp1979 · 16-07-2014 06:37PM

What exactly are you doing? Are you interfering with the gas meter?

antoinolachtnai · 16-07-2014 06:41PM

I recall reading somewhere somewhere that the optical isolation is very important (i.e., that there is good contact and no extraneous light getting in between the transceivers). Worth a fiddle anyway.

IEC1107 and DLMS are very closely related.

Wearb · 16-07-2014 06:43PM

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What exactly are you doing? Are you interfering with the gas meter?

I have been following this. It is a sort of hobby/challenge to collect the information being transmitted, not to interfere with the device, but to see if the information gathered can be put to use monitoring usage minutely.

Egass13 · 16-07-2014 07:23PM

Wearb wrote: »

I have been following this. It is a sort of hobby/challenge to collect the information being transmitted, not to interfere with the device, but to see if the information gathered can be put to use monitoring usage minutely.

It's also the most nerdy thing on boards , I have to read the sci-fi forum after just so I can feel masculine again .

Dtp1979 · 16-07-2014 07:42PM

Egass13 wrote: »

It's also the most nerdy thing on boards , I have to read the sci-fi forum after just so I can feel masculine again .

I had to read a few threads in the ladies lounge

Wearb · 16-07-2014 10:47PM

Do I hear you lads putting on real deep voices :0

zagmund · 17-07-2014 08:05AM

Steady on lads. It's interesting, but not exactly ground breaking. At the end of the day it's just meter reading.

z

maurice1 · 17-07-2014 08:40AM

Dardania wrote: »

What about a heat meter? And apply a standard efficiency value to the kWh consumption of heat to get kWh consumption of gas?

http://www.meters.co.uk/heat/hcm-4000-pulsed-output

good idea, Never knew these existed, but wouldn't allow for the cooker

maurice1 · 19-07-2014 04:31PM

Found a copy of the specs for the meter,

Optical port spec. EN 61107 Mode C
(300 /4800 Baud)

antoinolachtnai · 19-07-2014 07:13PM

The protocol is EN 61107 Mode C (300 /4800 Baud) so.

EN 61107 is the newer version of IEC mentioned above

zagmund · 22-07-2014 09:56PM

This would appear to be the protocol specification - http://www.mayor.de/lian98/doc.en/html/u_iec62056_struct.htm

It says it's for IEC62056, but it was linked from a reference to EN 61107.

I'm trying to work with the meter that maurice1 has, but I'm stuck at the very basic level of trying to get the IR stuff working at all with my Arduino. If I can get it working, I should be able to send a basic request packet to the meter and get a response back.

The data sheet says that there is a tamper indication provided over the optical port, and since the meter has been disassembled we should at least be able to get it to tell us that.

z

maurice1 · 23-07-2014 10:00AM

This may be a starting block, from
Arduino / file / examples / 04communication

/*
Software serial multple serial test
Receives from the hardware serial, sends to software serial.
Receives from software serial, sends to hardware serial.

Note;
Not all pins on the Mega and Mega 2560 support change interrupts,
so only the following can be used for RX:
10, 11, 12, 13, 50, 51, 52, 53, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69

Not all pins on the Leonardo support change interrupts,
so only the following can be used for RX:
8, 9, 10, 11, 14 (MISO), 15 (SCK), 16 (MOSI).

created back in the mists of time
modified 25 May 2012 by Tom Igoe based on Mikal Hart's example
This example code is in the public domain.

*/
#include <SoftwareSerial.h>

SoftwareSerial mySerial(2, 3); // RX, TX

void setup()
{
// Open serial communications and wait for port to open:
Serial.begin(300);
while (!Serial) {
; // wait for serial port to connect. Needed for Leonardo only
}

Serial.println("Connection Made");

// set the data rate for the SoftwareSerial port
mySerial.begin(300);
//mySerial.println("Hello, world?");
mySerial.println("/?!");
}

void loop() // run over and over
{
if (mySerial.available())
Serial.write(mySerial.read());
if (Serial.available())
mySerial.write(Serial.read());
}

Sam Russell · 10-03-2015 05:02PM

Any news on this project?

zagmund · 11-03-2015 08:59PM

Sadly no news. I got started on it and hit my standard problem when working with such things - I was missing a to-it. I have a square to-it, but I need to get a round to-it.

But seriously, no progress. I tried to get some IR stuff going as a test bed and couldn't get that to work properly. Maurice gave me a loan of his old meter to see if we could "see" anything coming from it over IR. If I ever get the basics working (hopefully in the next few months) I'll see if I can get it to talk to the meter. The next step after that is to see what sense we can make of whatever we "see".

I'm open to suggestions if anyone wants to try talking to the meter.

z

Sam Russell · 11-03-2015 11:33PM

Well, I am interested in this and took a different route.

I contacted Current Cost who make a monitor for electricity and have a device to attach to a gas meter but they say our meter is 'not compatible'.

Next I contacted Bord Gais Networks and I will let you know how that goes.

I have contacted Landis and Gyr and have been given a number to call and a name, so that might be progress. Again, I will post here if I get anything positive.

Given that the meter is sold as being compatible with pre-payment, I would think the protocol will be highly sensitive, and there will be a very real reluctance to hand out full information on the protocol, but if I can persuade the three above contacts to get together and devise a product for monitoring energy consumption, it will be win-win for all actors involved.

Bord Gais Networks did say they will be launching remote meter reading in the fullness of time - but no mention of time scale.

Sam Russell · 12-03-2015 05:06PM

Well, I contacted Landis and Gyr and talked to an engineer who works on the gas meters. He said the E6 S or E6 V meter used by BGE has been superceded by a smart meter of a different design that incorporated external communications. He also said that the protocols used to communicate with the meter are confidential and would not be released to the likes of me as once entry to the meter was achieved much mischief could be done such as changing tariffs etc.

On the other hand, he said that BGE could request a monitor and that would be possible.

I think BGE are the only way forward. I have yet to speak to them so will keep you up to date of any progress.

ted1 · 15-03-2015 08:37PM

On the older meters I've used magpie readers and they worked ok.

http://www.marshalltufflexenergy.com/sinergy/which-product/magpeye-opto-ferro/

Shame that the digital meters have no obvious indicator and dint come with an opto isolated pulse output

Sam Russell · 15-03-2015 09:55PM

The L and G meter does have an opto communication port, but its protocols are not available, and are confidential.

BGN do intend to add remote reading to it, but not yet.

ted1 · 16-03-2015 12:14AM

Sam Russell wrote: »

The L and G meter does have an opto communication port, but its protocols are not available, and are confidential.

BGN do intend to add remote reading to it, but not yet.

Opto isolators and opto comms are different . A isolator will give you a pulse output

Monitoring gas meter - Landis & Gyr E6S

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