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Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Part 2)

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Comments

  • #1172
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    orubiru wrote: »
    Do Deists and Pantheists believe in God(s)?

    If you don't know, look it up.
    Your claim was that had to be theism or atheism.
    You should have looked it up beforehand.


  • #1173
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    If you don't know, look it up.
    you claim was that had to be theism or atheism

    No that was not my claim.

    Atheism is a lack of belief in God. If someone lacks the belief then they are an Atheist.

    "I don't know" is still a lack of belief.

    Deists believe that there is a God.

    Pantheists believe that there is a God.


  • #1174
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,163 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    orubiru wrote: »
    No that was not my claim.

    Atheism is a lack of belief in God. If someone lacks the belief then they are an Atheist.

    "I don't know" is still a lack of belief.

    Deists believe that there is a God.

    Pantheists believe that there is a God.

    Knowledge and belief are two different things. There are plenty of Christians (and other theists) that would say they don't know that God exists, yet the still believe God exists.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1175
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    orubiru wrote: »
    No that was not my claim. [That's FALSE]
    orubiru wrote: »

    There is currently no evidence for the existence of God.

    [b[Because there is no evidence for Gods existence, I cannot believe in God.[/b]

    I lack a belief in God.

    This claim is false, firstly, you've claimed there is no evidence, without proving there is no evidence anywhere, and secondly, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Again, as an example, people can and do believe in the existence of alien life, even though there is no evidence available to them to date . This does not mean, as you claim, that no evidence exists.

    Would you like me to form your statement for you, so that it is correct ?


  • #1176
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,037 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Again a false claim.

    First you'll have to prove your premise that no evidence exists anywhere.

    Secondly, There is no evidence found to date that alien life exists, yet plenty of people can and do believe it does.

    Well what evidence do you have for the contrary?


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  • #1177
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Cen taurus wrote: »

    Again, as an example, people can and do believe in the existence of alien life, even though there is no evidence available to them to date . This does not mean, as you claim, that no evidence exists.

    It has ALREADY been explained to you that the hypothesis that alien life exists on other planets is supported by the FACT that life exists on this planet.

    Life exists on Earth. Earth is a planet. There are other planets. There are many other planets. Statistically, there may be other planets like Earth. So, the hypothesis that alien life exists on another planet is supported by the fact that life exists on this planet.


  • #1178
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    Gintonious wrote: »
    Well what evidence do you have for the contrary?

    I'm not the one making the claim.


  • #1179
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    orubiru wrote: »
    It has ALREADY been explained to you that the hypothesis that alien life exists on other planets is supported by the FACT that life exists on this planet.

    Life exists on Earth. Earth is a planet. There are other planets. There are many other planets. Statistically, there may be other planets like Earth. So, the hypothesis that alien life exists on another planet is supported by the fact that life exists on this planet.

    Alien life is life that does not originate from Earth. Find one credible scientific link that evidence of alien life exists. Then we can give you this years Nobel prize, as the first discoverer of evidence for alien life instead of someone else.


  • #1180
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,037 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    I'm not the one making the claim.

    You're claiming that there is a god, correct?


  • #1181
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    Gintonious wrote: »
    You're claiming that there is a god, correct?

    Where did I claim that ?


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  • #1182
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,037 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Where did I claim that ?

    Well then what is your claim?


  • #1183
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Where did I claim that ?

    I suspect that orubiru and Gintonius are like me and have inferred that you believe God exists from your posts. You don't need to have stated it flat out.


  • #1184
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    Gintonious wrote: »
    Well then what is your claim?

    I don't have one, what's yours ?


  • #1185
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,037 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    I don't have one, what's yours ?

    So you're in a debate, with no claim or side. Right.

    My claim is not that god doesn't exist, merely there is no reason to see that there is one.


  • #1186
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Where did I claim that ?

    Here

    ''I'm a Catholic. I don't label myself religious. I'm not big into labels, or categorising and pigeon-holing people, as this is a very inaccurate guide to anything. People are a lot more complex than that''

    I presume if you are a Catholic you believe in God - correct ? Or do you have some other type of fallacy to cover that ?


  • #1187
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    Gintonious wrote: »
    So you're in a debate, with no claim or side. Right.

    No, I'm in a discussion, where one person was making claims that were not correct.
    Gintonious wrote: »
    My claim is not that god doesn't exist, merely there is no reason to see that there is one.

    Do you mean no reason exists, or there is no reason to see God, or you have not seen a reason convincing enough for you to date ?


  • #1188
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    marienbad wrote: »
    Here

    ''I'm a Catholic. I don't label myself religious. I'm not big into labels, or categorising and pigeon-holing people, as this is a very inaccurate guide to anything. People are a lot more complex than that''

    I presume if you are a Catholic you believe in God - correct ? Or do you have some other type of fallacy to cover that ?

    So you had to go outside the thread to find a claim ? Intresting.

    Yep. It's called a strawman. I've no claim that God exists, I merely believe that God exists.

    Have you any other claims ?


  • #1189
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,037 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Do you mean no reason exists, or there is no reason to see God, or you have not seen a reason convincing enough for you to date ?

    I am sure plenty of people can give reasons as to why they think a god of some sort exists. But again, these claims from the faithful are indeed faith based, therefor require no evidence.

    For me, I have seen no evidence, or reason, in the slightest to believe that there is a god of any sort, let alone the christian god.


  • #1190
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    I don't have one, what's yours ?

    No claims you say?

    The penalty, wages and consequences for man's freely chosen sin against God and their fellow man is death, physical and worse spiritual, it always has been, and always will be, from the fall to the last judgement, man repeats this mistake over and over, and yet the free gift of God, and remedy to our own choices, is still given to us, eternal life in Christ Jesus. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 6:23

    Mankind is responsible for the fall and the corruption of the world, not God. You only have to look around you to know that. God saves.

    Actually the world was a perfect place before man chose to introduce and contaminate it with evil. Scripture is quite clear about this. And it is also clear it will be again after the final judegement and the new heavens and earth are reinstated.

    Those are some bold claims indeed.


  • #1191
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    Gintonious wrote: »

    For me, I have seen no evidence, or reason, in the slightest to believe that there is a god of any sort, let alone the christian god.

    Do you mean you've seen no reason convincing enough, or you've never seen a reason given anywhere by anyone?


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  • #1192
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    orubiru wrote: »
    No claims you say?

    The penalty, wages and consequences for man's freely chosen sin against God and their fellow man is death, physical and worse spiritual, it always has been, and always will be, from the fall to the last judgement, man repeats this mistake over and over, and yet the free gift of God, and remedy to our own choices, is still given to us, eternal life in Christ Jesus. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 6:23

    Mankind is responsible for the fall and the corruption of the world, not God. You only have to look around you to know that. God saves.

    Actually the world was a perfect place before man chose to introduce and contaminate it with evil. Scripture is quite clear about this. And it is also clear it will be again after the final judegement and the new heavens and earth are reinstated.

    Those are some bold claims indeed.

    I've noticed you've edited it, what a surprise. That was in response to a false claim by another poster.


  • #1193
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,037 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Do you mean you've seen no reason convincing enough, or you've never seen a reason given anywhere by anyone?

    I have not seen, heard or read of any evidence given by any person from any part of the world to support the idea of a god, the christian god or creationism.


  • #1194
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    Gintonious wrote: »
    I have not seen, heard or read of any evidence given by any person from any part of the world to support the idea of a god, the christian god or creationism.

    But you said reason a minute ago, which is it ? Are you dropping the reason claim ?


  • #1195
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    I've noticed you've edited it, what a surprise. That was in response to a false claim by another poster.

    Sorry, I was just copying and pasting. Please feel free to post the actual, unedited, quotes.

    Are you saying that you DON'T believe the things I quoted?


  • #1196
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,037 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    But you said reason a minute ago, which is it ? Are you dropping the reason claim ?

    The reason would be the lack of evidence.


  • #1197
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    orubiru wrote: »
    Sorry, I was just copying and pasting. Please feel free to post the actual, unedited, quotes.

    Are you saying that you DON'T believe the things I quoted?

    Do you realise the difference between a claim and a belief ?

    e.g. Tom believes, that even though there is no evidence to date that alien life exists, he believes there is alien life out there somewhere. Tom does not claim that there definitely is, merely that he believes there is. Are you saying Tom does not believe that?


  • #1198
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Do you realise the difference between a claim and a belief ?

    e.g. Tom believes, that even though there is no evidence to date that alien life exists, he believes there is alien life out there somewhere. Tom does not claim that there definitely is, merely that he believes there is. Are you saying Tom does not believe that?

    Oh, I see.

    You are not claiming that

    Mankind is responsible for the fall and the corruption of the world, not God. You only have to look around you to know that. God saves.

    or

    Actually the world was a perfect place before man chose to introduce and contaminate it with evil. Scripture is quite clear about this. And it is also clear it will be again after the final judegement and the new heavens and earth are reinstated.

    You just believe that it's true?

    I see.


  • #1199
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    Gintonious wrote: »
    The reason would be the lack of evidence.

    But you claimed earlier you seen no reason ?
    Do you believe there is alien life out there in the universe for example ?

    Also what would be evidence for God's existence in your opinion, and why would it be evidence ?


  • #1200
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Do you realise the difference between a claim and a belief ?

    e.g. Tom believes, that even though there is no evidence to date that alien life exists, he believes there is alien life out there somewhere. Tom does not claim that there definitely is, merely that he believes there is. Are you saying Tom does not believe that?

    Is Tom making specific claims about aliens, or is it just a general suspicion, given statistics?


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  • #1201
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    orubiru wrote: »
    Oh, I see.

    You are not claiming that

    Mankind is responsible for the fall and the corruption of the world, not God. You only have to look around you to know that. God saves.

    or

    Actually the world was a perfect place before man chose to introduce and contaminate it with evil. Scripture is quite clear about this. And it is also clear it will be again after the final judegement and the new heavens and earth are reinstated.

    You just believe that it's true?

    I see.

    That's correct.

    Do you claim it's not true, or do you just lack belief that it is ?


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