Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

howiya · 09-03-2015 02:24PM

cdebru wrote: »

You ignore the point the ingredients aren't there for supplying a quality service, every morning I see delivery drivers parked in bus lanes when there is an empty loading bay not 100 meters away, why because nobody does anything to stop them, everyday I see taxi drivers park up at bus stops creating pop up ranks, but nobody does anything, school starting and finishing times privates cars blocking the streets the pedestrian crossings the bus stops, nobody does anything, cars piling into bus lanes 500, 1000 metres early to queue for turns, this is not random nobody knows when it will happen stuff this is the same people in the same places doing the same things, day in day out nothing is done.

The NTA goes out and buys double door buses whoopie, how does that fix the problem, if you just ignore bus stop location and design ? Why didn't they do an audit route by route stop by stop and see which stops in the normal course are safe for dual door use and which aren't and then work at fixing or moving those that aren't up to standard ? No just half arsed buy the buses and it will fix itself, like everything in this country paint a white line, bring in a new law, no need to do anything else ah sure it will be grand. It is actually laughable to follow the Gardai on Twitter and see them post pictures of cars blocking footpaths or dangerously parked or with faulty lights, eh how about leading by example the amount of garda cars with faulty lights is unreal, they park in bus stops, on footpaths in bus lanes on double yellow lines, someone tweeted them a picture the other day of a Garda van completely blocking a footpath up near the new courts of justice, it wasn't parked there the next day but a private car was in the exact same spot, monkey see monkey do.

Yes we don't have a fully functioning transport system, but that won't change no matter who operates it, unless all the other stuff is addressed, DB is not perfect, but a lot of the stuff it takes flak for are stuff beyond their control.

You ignore anything that Dublin Bus and its employees can improve themselves. Lets just put our heads in the sand and blame the NTA or the lack of law enforcement

Is it the NTA's decision that passengers are left waiting on drivers to finish chatting about their weekend or the price of fish at driver handover spots before continuing their journey?

Is it the NTA's fault that a scheduled bus will appear on RTPI until it in theory passes the stop and never arrive? I queried this through Twitter once and the response was that there was no driver to operate the service. Surely it shouldn't have appeared on RTPI in that instance. No apology for the inconvenience in the response from Dublin Bus either

The bottom line is Dublin Bus and its staff don't treat passengers as customers and I assume you will reply and say that is up to the NTA.

bk · 09-03-2015 03:38PM

end of the road you are bringing up the funding red herring again!

Dublin Bus is well funded, reports done for the NTA show that DB receives subsidies in line with the European average, but delivers a service well below european average.

Dublin Bus not only receives direct subsidies, but it also benefits from many very generous indirect subsidies.

- Brand new buses bought for it by the government over the last 3 years. Now makes up almost 25% of DB fleet.
- Bus depots bought and paid for it by the taxpayer.
- Free travel paid for by the government.
- Up to 50% of monthly and yearly commuter tickets paid for by the government.

All adds up to an EXTREMELY well funded service.

Here is a reply by the Minister of Transport, Leo Varadaker to a question in 2013:

In the NTA’s recently published economic analyis of Direct Award Bus Contract in the Dublin market, it was stated that a comparative analysis of subvention levels across Europe indicated that levels of public transport subvention vary between 35 and 60 percent of revenue. It added that when all State interventions (including the PSO subvention, Free Travel Scheme, tax foregone as a result of the Taxsaver scheme, emergency funding and funding for the purchase of new buses) are taken into account, the level of subvention to Dublin Bus is at the upper end of the range and approaches 50%.

Fact, DB is highly subvented already.

Fact, DB has one of the highest per km running costs of any city bus service in Europe.

Fact, DB drivers are the third best paid in Europe.

Yet despite all this high level of funding, they manage to deliver a very mediocre, below average service!

end of the road · 09-03-2015 04:18PM

bk wrote: »

Dublin Bus is well funded, reports done for the NTA show that DB receives subsidies in line with the European average, but delivers a service well below european average.

reports from who. i'd doubt its well below european average, a bit maybe. but we have different requirements and a different set up compared to other cities. yes its far from perfect but no public transport is and ever will be.

bk wrote: »

Dublin Bus not only receives direct subsidies, but it also benefits from many very generous indirect subsidies.

- Brand new buses bought for it by the government over the last 3 years. Now makes up almost 25% of DB fleet.
- Bus depots bought and paid for it by the taxpayer.
- Free travel paid for by the government.
- Up to 50% of monthly and yearly commuter tickets paid for by the government.

so it should being a public bus service.

bk wrote: »

All adds up to an EXTREMELY well funded service.

clearly not if your not getting the bells and whistles you are requiring

bk wrote: »

Here is a reply by the Minister of Transport, Leo Varadaker to a question in 2013:

varadkar. enough said. i wouldn't believe anything that comes out of the government if i'm honest.

bk wrote: »

Fact, DB is highly subvented already.

subvented decently, but could be more. and improvements are happening. to deliver the so called european model you want will require more funding, auditing of stops and routes by the NTA, and a lot more.

bk wrote: »

Fact, DB has one of the highest per km running costs of any city bus service in Europe.

yes, because it runs mostly socially necessary routes that are mostly loss making and they don't get payed in full for the free travel.

bk wrote: »

Fact, DB drivers are the third best paid in Europe.

apparently. doubt it though. i'm glad they are payed well though, it encourages people to take up the job.

bk wrote: »

Yet despite all this high level of funding, they manage to deliver a very mediocre, below average service!

they don't. its not perfect, but improvements are happening. if you want bells and whistles, pay for it

bk · 09-03-2015 04:36PM

end of the road, haha, so we are supposed to take your word for it over the word of the Minister of Transport in a Dail address!

WOW, just wow! :rolleyes:

And BTW multidoor operations so you can cut journey times in half and 24 hour services aren't "bells and whistles", they are fundamental to running a modern, european city bus service.

DB as I have proven is very highly subsidised, yet fails to deliver even an average european style city bus service. Why do you think throwing even more money at them will make any difference?

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -- Albert Einstein

And to be honest you blindly defending your employer really doesn't help your case that DB recognise their faults and can make the necessary improvements.

In fact every time I read your comments, it makes me more and more convinced that Dublins city bus services need to be taken out of the hands of Dublin Bus and given to a new company.

end of the road · 09-03-2015 04:53PM

1. yeah, i wouldn't trust ff and fg as far as i could throw them.
2. multi door operations will happen eventually, all be it stops should be audited for safety, and those unsuited to multi-door operation should be re-located or shut if a stop is near by that is suitable.
3. 24 hour operation will happen eventually on routes where there is demand.
4. i'm not defending my employer as i don't work for dublin bus.
5. dublin bus only needs to deliver a dublin bus service. to deliver a european bus service will require huge audits of everything from traffic management bus priority bus lanes stops and more, and the enforcement of said. who is paying for it.
5. dublin bus realized their faults long ago and have been improving year on year.
6. taking the bus service out of dublin busses hands and giving it to another company won't change anything. it would be doing it for the sake of it. companies aren't going to change anything. the NTA is making the decisians. you want dublin busses services to be taken from dublin bus and the people for the sake of it. a waste of time. public bus service = public owned company.

bk · 09-03-2015 05:06PM

end of the road, we should be taking bus services out of Dublin Buses hands because we simply shouldn't be rewarding mediocrity.

DB has done a terrible job delivering city bus services to Dublin for the past 30 years and we certainly shouldn't be rewarding it for that!

You claim DB will introduce multi door operations and 24 hour running. But we see zero evidence of this. DB could and should have introduced these 30 years ago like the rest of Europe, but it couldn't be bothered, in fact it did the opposite. Just look at how it can't be bothered to operate the new dual dorr buses bought for it by the NTA!

It looks like the NTA will finally deliver European style multi-door operations and 24 hour running via the new BRT lines. It is looking like DB drivers will be operating those buses and I've no problem with that. But I'm delighted this service is being designed by the NTA with little or no involvement from DB management who have proven themselves to be completely incompetent.

end of the road · 09-03-2015 05:22PM

bk wrote: »

we should be taking bus services out of Dublin Buses hands because we simply shouldn't be rewarding mediocrity.

we aren't rewarding anything. and we shouldn't be taking public bus services out of the hands of a public company. public companies for socially necessary public transport services with private operators operating nice to have but not necessary services.

bk wrote: »

DB has done a terrible job delivering city bus services to Dublin for the past 30 years and we certainly shouldn't be rewarding it for that!

we are not rewarding anything. lots of improvements have been made, its nothing like 30 years ago, even 10.

bk wrote: »

You claim DB will introduce multi door operations and 24 hour running. But we see zero evidence of this.

i don't clame anything of the sort. its the NTA making the decisians. dublin bus will only be doing what the NTA tells them. dublin bus just makes representations. no point in introducing multi-door operation until an audit of all stops where its proposed takes place to ensure safety, with irelands compo culture this is important.

bk wrote: »

DB could and should have introduced these 30 years ago like the rest of Europe, but it couldn't be bothered

couldn't be bothered? or there just wasn't a demand for it 30 years ago? i'd imagine funding was most likely given grudgingly and was pittence also. your comparing cities which were set up for public transport and which weren't car centric to a city which wasn't, still mostly isn't, and is mostly car centric.

bk wrote: »

in fact it did the opposite. Just look at how it can't be bothered to operate the new dual dorr buses bought for it by the NTA!

it can't be bothered, or the NTA is satisfied there is a genuine reason?

bk wrote: »

It looks like the NTA will finally deliver European style multi-door operations and 24 hour running via the new BRT lines.

if they happen. it will also be delivered to other routes in due course by the NTA should the demand be sufficient

bk wrote: »

It is looking like DB drivers will be operating those buses and I've no problem with that. But I'm delighted this service is being designed by the NTA with little or no involvement from DB management who have proven themselves to be completely incompetent.

how do you know its little or no involvement? all stake holders will be heard will they not? currently the NTA is making the decisians in general, all companies operating will have input but the authority makes the decisians. so as you have an issue with no multi-door operation, rather then simply blaming dublin bus, contact the NTA and ask their position on the matter. i'd be interested to hear what they say.

cdebru · 09-03-2015 08:59PM

howiya wrote: »

You ignore anything that Dublin Bus and its employees can improve themselves. Lets just put our heads in the sand and blame the NTA or the lack of law enforcement

Is it the NTA's decision that passengers are left waiting on drivers to finish chatting about their weekend or the price of fish at driver handover spots before continuing their journey?

Is it the NTA's fault that a scheduled bus will appear on RTPI until it in theory passes the stop and never arrive? I queried this through Twitter once and the response was that there was no driver to operate the service. Surely it shouldn't have appeared on RTPI in that instance. No apology for the inconvenience in the response from Dublin Bus either

The bottom line is Dublin Bus and its staff don't treat passengers as customers and I assume you will reply and say that is up to the NTA.

The NTA operate the RTPI that is how it works, that is how it is supposed to work, if it only predicted buses once they commenced the journey it would be far worse than the way it is now.

And seriously the best you can come up with is 2 drivers having a chat ???? Does this happen every driver change over you experience because it doesn't in my experience in fact I have never been held up by drivers chatting during a hand over.... Not once.

The bottom line is that DB do treat their passengers as customers, sometimes I would suggest too much so when certain passengers have become abusive and even violent, DB management seem to have adopted a the passenger is always right attitude, when in my opinion some of those people should be banned from buses not given free tickets and an apology but there you go.

Dyr · 09-03-2015 09:45PM

cdebru wrote: »

The bottom line is that DB do treat their passengers as customers.

They truly don't.

And the standard procedure for a driver handover appears to be as follows

pull in
realise replacement driver is late
turn off engine
do not communicate the situation to passengers
Allow passengers to alight
Have chin wag or moan at replacement driver when he shows up
go on your merry way

Or one classic I had in parnell square:
Pull in
Tell passengers that the next driver will not be due for 15 minutes
Watch all the customers get off the bus
Pull out and continue on your route sans pesky customers

end of the road · 09-03-2015 09:52PM

Bambi wrote: »

They truly don't.

oh they truely do for the most part. every company has its bad apples.

And the standard procedure for a driver handover appears to be as follows

pull in
realise replacement driver is late
turn off engine
do not communicate the situation to passengers
Allow passengers to alight
Have chin wag or moan at replacement driver when he shows up
go on your merry way[/QUOTE]

not their fault if the replacement is late, thats the replacements fault. i believe they have to turn off the engine. your always allowed to get off if you want you don't have to.

Bambi wrote: »

Or one classic I had in parnell square:
Pull in
Tell passengers that the next driver will not be due for 15 minutes
Watch all the customers get off the bus
Pull out and continue on your route sans pesky customers

yeah, one bad apple. did you report this to dublin bus? are you sure there wasn't an issue with the bus and he was instructed to drive it to the depot as they were short?

cdebru · 09-03-2015 10:16PM

bk wrote: »

end of the road, haha, so we are supposed to take your word for it over the word of the Minister of Transport in a Dail address!

WOW, just wow! :rolleyes:

And BTW multidoor operations so you can cut journey times in half and 24 hour services aren't "bells and whistles", they are fundamental to running a modern, european city bus service.

DB as I have proven is very highly subsidised, yet fails to deliver even an average european style city bus service. Why do you think throwing even more money at them will make any difference?

And to be honest you blindly defending your employer really doesn't help your case that DB recognise their faults and can make the necessary improvements.

In fact every time I read your comments, it makes me more and more convinced that Dublins city bus services need to be taken out of the hands of Dublin Bus and given to a new company.

Seriously ??? Are you really that delusional or are you attempting to troll ? Do you really believe that multi door use would half journey times ???? If the best you can come up with is multi door use and 24 hour services you really need to try harder or you seriously have f*** all to complain about.

Multi door use makes very little difference on dwell times for the vast majority of stops even during peak times, most routes are going to and from the city center at peak times they are mostly loafing till they get to the last few stops in the city then they are mostly unloading, multi door use ( where one door is for boarding and another is for alightling ) would make little to no difference and 100% would never in a million years half journey times, the only routes where it would really make a difference would be cross city routes but only at the stops where you would have significant loading and unloading at the same stop but that would only be 2 or 3 stops across routes with 40+ stops and it would certainly not half the journey times or anywhere near it. In actual fact stopping and opening both doors at all stops even when both door were not required would probably balance out that any gains made on the handful of stops would be lost on the many stops where it is not required so journey times wouldn't be any different tbh. What makes journey times long and unpredictable is competing with private cars for road space and the lack of enforcement of the half arsed priority measures we do have, simple as that.

As for 24 hour services, there is very little demand, probably limited to routes to the airport and certainly not enough demand to make it anyway financially sustainable across the city if you dont believe that then a quick look at the small number of private operators bares this out, they aren't operating 24 hours, so if we want it then you have to work out how it is going to be paid for but dont expect it to be operated on a commercial basis.

Now if you complained about lack of integrated timetabling, unrelaible journey times, number of bus stops etc you might possibly be serious or at least taken seriously but the nonsense you are currently spouting makes you look like someone who is just trying.to get a rise out.of other posters tbh.

cdebru · 09-03-2015 10:29PM

Bambi wrote: »

They truly don't.

And the standard procedure for a driver handover appears to be as follows

pull in
realise replacement driver is late
turn off engine
do not communicate the situation to passengers
Allow passengers to alight
Have chin wag or moan at replacement driver when he shows up
go on your merry way

Or one classic I had in parnell square:
Pull in
Tell passengers that the next driver will not be due for 15 minutes
Watch all the customers get off the bus
Pull out and continue on your route sans pesky customers

Ahem I'm not going to defend mid journey handovers because they were one of the reasons I pointed out cross city routes are a pain to organise, but that said the way DB does them is poor mainly because buses can generally arrive within a 20 minute window either side of their predicted arrival but DB only pay a driver to be there at the predicted time, so bus arrives early no driver, and some drivers are unwilling to announce that they are waiting for a driver because it sounds like the arriving driver is at fault or is holding up the show, they aren't they aren't supposed to be there, the option is really that the driver coming in to hand over takes his time and tries not to arrive early, but then you would have people complaining about the driver delaying the bus deliberately etc.

The last one can and does happen when a controller asks the driver to continue a journey on at the last minute because something has happened to the relieving driver and they won't be there, the driver continuing on didn't know this until they are asked to continue on which was after some of the passengers have left the bus.
Unfortunately some people have a habit of attributing bad intentions to events when they dont actually know what happened

howiya · 09-03-2015 11:56PM

cdebru wrote: »

Ahem I'm not going to defend mid journey handovers because they were one of the reasons I pointed out cross city routes are a pain to organise, but that said the way DB does them is poor mainly because buses can generally arrive within a 20 minute window either side of their predicted arrival but DB only pay a driver to be there at the predicted time, so bus arrives early no driver, and some drivers are unwilling to announce that they are waiting for a driver because it sounds like the arriving driver is at fault or is holding up the show, they aren't they aren't supposed to be there, the option is really that the driver coming in to hand over takes his time and tries not to arrive early, but then you would have people complaining about the driver delaying the bus deliberately etc.

The last one can and does happen when a controller asks the driver to continue a journey on at the last minute because something has happened to the relieving driver and they won't be there, the driver continuing on didn't know this until they are asked to continue on which was after some of the passengers have left the bus.
Unfortunately some people have a habit of attributing bad intentions to events when they dont actually know what happened

If drivers are not prepared to provide information to passengers then they should not be doing the job

cdebru · 10-03-2015 01:57AM

howiya wrote: »

If drivers are not prepared to provide information to passengers then they should not be doing the job

Yeah sack them all I say. Or maybe just maybe think what information can the driver give ? The bus is 10 minutes early the next driver is not due for 10 minutes but may arrive anytime within that 10 minutes, so you tell people you are waiting for 10 minutes they jump off the next driver arrives 9 minutes early and then you or someone similar is here complaining that they were told 10 minutes but the bus passed them by 2 minutes later, like it was all some big conspiracy to make you walk. It is damned if you do damned if you don't.

The easiest solution and I have said it here loads of times is that the relief driver should be paid to be there up to 10 minutes before the "official" expected arrival time. That is the best solution until we have a system that can offer reliable journey times.

Sitting around on buses is going to be the future anyway, the NTA want timing points that buses that are ahead of schedule will sit at till they are back on schedule, so arriving 10 minutes early for a relief driver should be a thing of the past, you will just have spent the 10 minutes sitting around somewhere else instead.

bk · 10-03-2015 09:52AM

cdebru wrote: »

Seriously ??? Are you really that delusional or are you attempting to troll ? Do you really believe that multi door use would half journey times ???? If the best you can come up with is multi door use and 24 hour services you really need to try harder or you seriously have f*** all to complain about.

Yes, I'm very serious, DB's dwell times are just that bad.

Take my earlier example of the bus from the airport in Krakow covering the 16km journey in just 35 minutes, versus the 16 taking at least 45 minutes to cover the 10km to Dublin Airport.

That is an average journey speed of 27km/h in Krakow, versus just 14 km/h for the 16!

And that is from both of their official timetables.

Last week I was sitting on the 16 from town to Drumcondra and I timed it. It took it 30 minutes to just get to Griffith Avenue! Almost 15 minutes of that time was being stopped for ages at bus stops!

This was a Sunday afternoon so little traffic congestion.

Honestly, go travel Europe, and try bus services abroad and you will see how ridiculously bad DB are in comparison.

Dyr · 10-03-2015 12:43PM

I like how dublin bus employees claim that the company is customer focused and then their every post shows just how far from that they are

Just as a matter of course on making complaints to dublin bus: It begs the question..why? They never act on them and make it obvious that they'd rather not deal with them

Post an issue on their facebook page (obtusely named "dublinbusnews" rather than "dublin bus", this company sucks at digital marketing too it seems) and the poppets running it will tell you they don't really deal with complaints. Send their customer comment address an email and a month later you'll get a response saying their overhauling their helpdesk system so don't hold your breath, then after that you'll get a response blowing you off

In fact, one particularly moany employee told me if you wanted to make a complaint you needed to write them a letter.

That's customer service moreyah

.

strandroad · 10-03-2015 01:17PM

Bambi wrote: »

Or one classic I had in parnell square:
Pull in
Tell passengers that the next driver will not be due for 15 minutes
Watch all the customers get off the bus
Pull out and continue on your route sans pesky customers

Another classic on the way to the airport: bus stopped for a changeover in Parnell Sq, long wait... and the driver did not arrive. Since then it's only Aircoach/car for me, and most likely for many other passengers who spilled out from the bus dragging their luggage and waving down taxis.

The whole driver changeover idea is only possible if you have your customer at the very bottom of the pile anyway.

Another lovely DB custom is to make all passengers leave their bus and move over to another one waiting in front. Loving the WTF stares from whoever is subject to it for the first time. Or when buses suddenly terminate in the city centre when they were not supposed to.

DB customer service at its best.

dfx- · 10-03-2015 01:48PM

bk wrote: »

LuckyLloyd, have you ever used city bus services in other European cities? For instance London or Poland (e.g. Krakow, same population size as Dublin)

Judging from his excellent post earlier, I suspect LL is like me, a happy customer who really couldn't care less about any other city, no matter how many you bring up. I have used public transport in a variety of cities and it has no bearing on Dublin at all. I don't know how to say that to make it known.

It took your 16 30 minutes from town to Griffith Avenue...it took my 13 last night 15 minutes from Christchurch to DCU at 8pm. That's excellent time through the heart of the city 99% of your route at busier time. Sometimes it's different, sometimes it's more and sometimes it's less. No big deal.

hmmm · 10-03-2015 02:57PM

mhge wrote: »

Another lovely DB custom is to make all passengers leave their bus and move over to another one waiting in front. Loving the WTF stares from whoever is subject to it for the first time. Or when buses suddenly terminate in the city centre when they were not supposed to.

What is that about anyway? I experience it a couple of times a year - pulling up on the quays and being told to get off and try and pack into some bus travelling behind.

In fairness to DB though, where I've been on a bus that breaks down they are usually quick at getting a replacement out to us.

strandroad · 10-03-2015 03:53PM

hmmm wrote: »

What is that about anyway? I experience it a couple of times a year - pulling up on the quays and being told to get off and try and pack into some bus travelling behind.

No idea, I used to use N11 buses a lot and it was happening all the time. Plus changeover funz in Donnybrook. This was supposed to be a quality bus corridor mind

end of the road · 10-03-2015 04:09PM

bk wrote: »

Yes, I'm very serious, DB's dwell times are just that bad.

Take my earlier example of the bus from the airport in Krakow covering the 16km journey in just 35 minutes, versus the 16 taking at least 45 minutes to cover the 10km to Dublin Airport.

That is an average journey speed of 27km/h in Krakow, versus just 14 km/h for the 16!

And that is from both of their official timetables.

Last week I was sitting on the 16 from town to Drumcondra and I timed it. It took it 30 minutes to just get to Griffith Avenue! Almost 15 minutes of that time was being stopped for ages at bus stops!

This was a Sunday afternoon so little traffic congestion.

Honestly, go travel Europe, and try bus services abroad and you will see how ridiculously bad DB are in comparison.

its not that bad. plenty of reasons for those delays apart from bus stops. european cities are set up for public transport, dublin has a way to go before that is the case. also there are many reasons for dwell times at bus stops, letting disabled people on, people with buggies and so on. all on busses that for the most part have little room for a number of them

end of the road · 10-03-2015 04:15PM

mhge wrote: »

Another classic on the way to the airport: bus stopped for a changeover in Parnell Sq, long wait... and the driver did not arrive. Since then it's only Aircoach/car for me, and most likely for many other passengers who spilled out from the bus dragging their luggage and waving down taxis.

tis terrible. look its annoying, but these happen for a reason. we all know it happens. not the end of the world.

mhge wrote: »

The whole driver changeover idea is only possible if you have your customer at the very bottom of the pile anyway.

yeah, because it couldn't be to do with the rotas or not having drivers go all the way to the depot if they happen to live near the change over point.

mhge wrote: »

Another lovely DB custom is to make all passengers leave their bus and move over to another one waiting in front. Loving the WTF stares from whoever is subject to it for the first time.

oh because there couldn't be something wrong with the bus that the passengers may not be aware of, or that one of or both of the busses have few passengers so its decided to take all passengers on the one bus saving fuel and meaning that bus can operate as extra capacity along the later part of the route? right so

mhge wrote: »

Or when buses suddenly terminate in the city centre when they were not supposed to.

see above.

end of the road · 10-03-2015 04:20PM

dfx- wrote: »

Judging from his excellent post earlier, I suspect LL is like me, a happy customer who really couldn't care less about any other city, no matter how many you bring up. I have used public transport in a variety of cities and it has no bearing on Dublin at all. I don't know how to say that to make it known.

It took your 16 30 minutes from town to Griffith Avenue...it took my 13 last night 15 minutes from Christchurch to DCU at 8pm. That's excellent time through the heart of the city 99% of your route at busier time. Sometimes it's different, sometimes it's more and sometimes it's less. No big deal.

didn't you get the memo? your not allowed to be a happy customer of dublin bus. they are out to get us all and your supposed to show blind hatred of them and everything they do is a conspiracy

bk · 10-03-2015 04:59PM

end of the road wrote: »

its not that bad. plenty of reasons for those delays apart from bus stops. european cities are set up for public transport, dublin has a way to go before that is the case. also there are many reasons for dwell times at bus stops, letting disabled people on, people with buggies and so on. all on busses that for the most part have little room for a number of them

Oh, so now you are saying that Poland and other European countries don't have elderly people, disabled people and buggies!!! :rolleyes:

Of course they do, just as many as Ireland.

But the point is these people don't slow European buses down because these European buses have multiple doors, so even these elderly, disabled and buggy users can quickly embark on the bus with minimum delay.

It is the whole reason for using multidoor buses and it is the reason for far faster journey times in the rest of Europe.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand or why CIE staff are so defensive about it? You can see the reality of this every day on the Luas which has far faster dwell times then DB, while carrying far more passengers per vehicle.

BTW in Krakow, beyond the use of multidoor buses and off bus ticketing, there really didn't seem to be any extra "public transport" infrastructure compared to Dublin on the route. In fact there seemed to be far less in the way of bus lanes, with the Krakow airport bus mostly using a standard two lane street most of the way.

Again CIE staff looking for excuses for why they deliver such a poor service, why Dublin is some reason a unique little flower where normal European standard public transport can't be applied!

5star02707 · 10-03-2015 05:16PM

Just want to add the Leap 90 discount really helps cost saving!

Woop!

end of the road · 10-03-2015 05:37PM

bk wrote: »

Oh, so now you are saying that Poland and other European countries don't have elderly people, disabled people and buggies!!!

i'm sure they do. but they have different setups to us for public transport and the rest.

bk wrote: »

Of course they do, just as many as Ireland.

just as many? or more? or less?

bk wrote: »

But the point is these people don't slow European buses down because these European buses have multiple doors, so even these elderly, disabled and buggy users can quickly embark on the bus with minimum delay.

right so. i bet they do

bk wrote: »

It is the whole reason for using multidoor buses and it is the reason for far faster journey times in the rest of Europe.

no, bus priority, bus lanes, enforcement, and the rest are.

bk wrote: »

I don't know why this is so hard to understand or why CIE staff are so defensive about it?

so because one "defends" dublin bus from those who are trying to compare it to cities who are completely different to dublin, they are CIE staff?

bk wrote: »

You can see the reality of this every day on the Luas which has far faster dwell times then DB, while carrying far more passengers per vehicle.

eh, luas is on its own tracks, has its own stops set up speciffically for it, and people can more or less just walk on. all that and more. trying to compare a bus service to a tram is pointless. to different methods operated in to different ways.

bk wrote: »

BTW in Krakow, beyond the use of multidoor buses and off bus ticketing, there really didn't seem to be any extra "public transport" infrastructure compared to Dublin on the route. In fact there seemed to be far less in the way of bus lanes, with the Krakow airport bus mostly using a standard two lane street most of the way.

well, maybe they have their own set up and operations and way of doing things that you know, works for their situation. same as we have and will have in full eventually. frankly i couldn't care a less about krakow anyway. its a city irrelevant to me and many others here

bk wrote: »

Again CIE staff looking for excuses for why they deliver such a poor service

some are. some not. but frankly, dublin bus staff are on the ground and know what is happening. i'd take their word over your good self in relation to the reasons things happen until i see otherwise.

bk wrote: »

why Dublin is some reason a unique little flower where normal European standard public transport can't be applied!

yes, it is . european style transport in cities set up for it verses dublin which isn't. if you want european style transport
1. pay for it
2. make sure the city is set up for it first

Dyr · 10-03-2015 05:39PM

end of the road wrote: »

tis terrible. look its annoying, but these happen for a reason. we all know it happens. not the end of the world.

You should submit that for consideration as dublin buses new logo

howiya · 10-03-2015 06:59PM

cdebru wrote: »

Yeah sack them all I say. Or maybe just maybe think what information can the driver give ? The bus is 10 minutes early the next driver is not due for 10 minutes but may arrive anytime within that 10 minutes, so you tell people you are waiting for 10 minutes they jump off the next driver arrives 9 minutes early and then you or someone similar is here complaining that they were told 10 minutes but the bus passed them by 2 minutes later, like it was all some big conspiracy to make you walk. It is damned if you do damned if you don't.

How about something along the lines of the Ryanair trumpet to let passengers know they've arrived at the midway point of their journey earlier than expected and they may be delayed by up to x minutes as the relief driver is not due until then. If the driver arrives earlier than expected the bus may depart sooner

Arm people with information and they can make their own mind up whether they stay on the bus or not. Can you not see that its better than leaving people guessing??

stehyl15 · 10-03-2015 09:23PM

I love how dublin bus and irish rail use the word customers rather than users or passengers. I couldnt care less if buses were badly maintained and dirty and run down once they were cheap.

end of the road · 10-03-2015 09:48PM

stehyl15 wrote: »

I couldnt care less if buses were badly maintained and dirty and run down once they were cheap.

yes, and then should something serious happen due to them being badly maintained, you would be one of the first on here complaining. but, as long as its cheep right? lets take the unnecessary risk. as for run down, well, psome busses back in the 90s were just that, and nobody was happy, including me. and rightly so. no thanks, i'd rather what we are getting now, properly maintained busses, all be it not as cheep as i'd like, but i can understand why ultra cheep isn't an option.

Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

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