Church vs Humanist wedding

Magicmatilda · 06-03-2015 01:32PM

My brother in laws mother refused to go to their wedding because it was a civil ceremony (his choice).

He said that was fine and continued with the plan. A week before the wedding she changed her mind.

Turns out the shame of having a civil ceremony was not as bad as the shame of not being at the son's wedding and having to explain that to her siblings and neighbours etc...

That said I can't see the difference in having a priest or a deacon really and I think you should be very clear about why you are fighting this one. Also though, be aware this is minor compared to the pressure you will get to baptise the children.

How does your wife to be feel now? is she angey at the parents for treating her this way?

Thankfully I know my parents won't be like this.

obriendj · 06-03-2015 02:07PM

Magicmatilda wrote: »

My brother in laws mother refused to go to their wedding because it was a civil ceremony (his choice).

He said that was fine and continued with the plan. A week before the wedding she changed her mind.

Turns out the shame of having a civil ceremony was not as bad as the shame of not being at the son's wedding and having to explain that to her siblings and neighbours etc...

That said I can't see the difference in having a priest or a deacon really and I think you should be very clear about why you are fighting this one. Also though, be aware this is minor compared to the pressure you will get to baptise the children.

How does your wife to be feel now? is she angey at the parents for treating her this way?

Thankfully I know my parents won't be like this.

And thankfully nobody on my side of the family would make such demands. and if they did they would be told where to go without involving the OH.

Having said that I have no problem with someone, anyone asking me to have a full church wedding. The problem lies is when the request is refused and a rift is caused. and even further issues when my OH is blamed for causing the rift. She is angry but will be much quicker to forgive them before i will - which lies another problem.

You have said there is little difference between a priest and a deacon. So why are they fighting and not accepting my compromise.

obriendj · 06-03-2015 02:14PM

Magicmatilda wrote: »

Thankfully I know my parents won't be like this.

But just on this point, What if my side of the family asked (or demanded) the complete opposite.
What if, I was asked by my family to NOT have a church wedding at all. For whatever the reasons. How would that pan out...

But, it seems a majority of people on here think I have done enough, reading the comments here make me more determined not to compromise further. and if I do I will be more angry at myself and at In-Laws and to a lesser extent the OH (for not telling them where to go)

obriendj · 06-03-2015 02:19PM

December2012 wrote: »

Has your fiancé an ally, like an aunt, who can speak with her parents? Somebody who she can go and talk to about how upset she is that they are dictating her wedding and not supporting her marriage choices? I don't mean somebody who will make it worse, I mean somebody who they might listen to?

This could be an option but i think most of the aunts would be of the same mind. i dont know for sure but i think they would.

Maybe one or two allys, but i dont think she would want to tell anyone else about this. She would kill me if she knew I was mentioning it on here. I have encouraged her to talk to her friends about it, if only to rant about me. Which she has done more recently.

Toots · 06-03-2015 03:10PM

Have you and your fiancee discussed what way things will go with regards to any potential children you'll have? Will they be baptisesd? Raised catholic?

obriendj · 06-03-2015 03:31PM

Toots wrote: »

Have you and your fiancee discussed what way things will go with regards to any potential children you'll have? Will they be baptisesd? Raised catholic?

She would like children baptized, It was brought up before but even in a multi-denomination school a non-religious child gets put to the bottom of the list.

There are still no non-denomination schools in Ireland.

But it is something that she wants so i am fully open to discussing and giving in to her on this.

lazygal · 06-03-2015 03:46PM

obriendj wrote: »

She would like children baptized, It was brought up before but even in a multi-denomination school a non-religious child gets put to the bottom of the list.

There are still no non-denomination schools in Ireland.

But it is something that she wants so i am fully open to discussing and giving in to her on this.

Not strictly true. Many educate together schools have a first come, first served system. We haven't baptised our two and wouldn't feel pressured into it to secure a school place. Our local school is catholic but prioritise those in the catchment area first, so we will secure a place no problem. A school place has to be provided for every child (I have contacted the Minister about this and other matters) and if your child doesn't secure a place through the standard channels, a place will be found for him or her. This 'safety net' baptism thing means nothing will ever change with the mad patronage system.

This is why we were on exactly the same page about out wedding. It made it much easier to deal with anciallary opinions about how we raise our children now. Our parents know and respect that we are our own unit now, and while we generally value their advice, we make our decisions about what's best for us and our children based on what's right for us, not what other people think is best for us.

Toots · 06-03-2015 05:24PM

obriendj wrote: »

She would like children baptized, It was brought up before but even in a multi-denomination school a non-religious child gets put to the bottom of the list.

There are still no non-denomination schools in Ireland.

But it is something that she wants so i am fully open to discussing and giving in to her on this.

Honestly, this is something you need to agree on before you get married. If you wait until a child is on the way/just born, there'll be so much upheaval and emotions, a disagreement over this could be like a spark in a powder keg. Again, I speak from personal experience here.

You want to make sure you've made a concrete decision on what way it'll be done, because if your inlaws are acting with a wedding, you can be damned sure that once there's the slightest whiff of a bun in the oven, they'll be sticking their oar in good and proper.

December2012 · 06-03-2015 08:14PM

Why would she rant about you? You've done nothing wrong. You just have a different set of religious beliefs.

Re schools - look up the Community National School model as well as the Educate Together model. There are more options thank you think, particularly if you live in an urban area.

Really being non religious is like being religious, in a way. If you were Jewish or church of Ireland would they still expect you to marry "their" way?

prettygurrly · 08-03-2015 03:47PM

After reading the whole thread something is really clear to me. I would LOVE to get married in my home church and I'm sure my OH would LOVE to get married in a RCC because it would be continuing his RCC journey - baptism, 1st holy communion, confirmation - not that he attends mass except for when somebody dies but we can't. I realised this when we met. I'm CofI, he's RCC and n'er the two shall meet. The only option is humanist or a civil HSE. I would never put pressure on my man to get married in my home church just like he wouldn't pressurise me into marrying in a church that I abhor (yes that strongly, I have to keep the bile down during weddings and funerals). So I'm sorry but I'm completely on the OP's side on this and think you shouldn't have compromised at all in the first place. It's a much bigger sacrifice to get married in a church if you're a nonbeliever than for a believer to have a non-religious ceremony, the ramifications are huge as has been pointed out by other posters.

With so much choice in Ireland now I don't understand why this is still happening except that we still live in a ridiculously religious country who refuse to accept that marriage is about making a contract between two people and ultimately that is done by the state and no one else.

JayRoc · 08-03-2015 05:29PM

I sometimes wonder what would happen if everyone who got married in a church (and everyone who got their kids baptised) actually told the truth to the priest.

"Nah, reckon it's all nonsense, just here to keep the Mother-in-Law from giving out, anything for the quiet life. Sure, you know yourself....sorry, you don't, do you?"

I have difficulty respecting someone who takes part in a sacred ceremony (and in doing so, actively contributing to the hold that the church continues to exert over so much of this country) who doesn't believe in it. Until more of us actually stand up and tell the truth about what we do or don't believe, nothing is ever going to change.

andreac · 09-03-2015 11:05AM

Sorry but can i ask what is involved in a Humanist Ceremony? Just booked our date yesterday and will be having a civil/humanist or spiritualist ceremony on site at the hotel and need to book someone asap as i know its very popular now.

I know the civil is quite short but the other ones are a bit longer.

Can anyone give me an idea roughly the length of a Humanist ceremony and what you can and cant do at them?

I have emailed 2 Humanist celebrants to see if they are available and what is involved so hoping to hear back soon, but would also like someones personal opinion.

Many thanks.

prettygurrly · 09-03-2015 10:08PM

andreac wrote: »

Sorry but can i ask what is involved in a Humanist Ceremony? Just booked our date yesterday and will be having a civil/humanist or spiritualist ceremony on site at the hotel and need to book someone asap as i know its very popular now.

I know the civil is quite short but the other ones are a bit longer.

Can anyone give me an idea roughly the length of a Humanist ceremony and what you can and cant do at them?

I have emailed 2 Humanist celebrants to see if they are available and what is involved so hoping to hear back soon, but would also like someones personal opinion.

Many thanks.

There's actually great answers to this in another current thread...

tamcp · 08-06-2015 11:03AM

We had a small civil ceremony in Donegal last year and it lasted about forty minutes with music, readings, etc. Everyone said it was really lovely. I attended a humanist wedding recently and really didn't enjoy it. Perhaps it was just the particular one we went to.

andreac · 08-06-2015 11:23AM

tamcp wrote: »

We had a small civil ceremony in Donegal last year and it lasted about forty minutes with music, readings, etc. Everyone said it was really lovely. I attended a humanist wedding recently and really didn't enjoy it. Perhaps it was just the particular one we went to.

I would imagine it was just the one you went to, as ive heard so many great reports about Humanist ones. You can put all your own personal touches on it with poems, songs, readings, music etc, so maybe this couple didnt do a whole lot with their ceremony?

I cant wait to start organising my one and start putting it all together

fannymagee · 09-06-2015 10:18PM

andreac wrote: »

Sorry but can i ask what is involved in a Humanist Ceremony? Just booked our date yesterday and will be having a civil/humanist or spiritualist ceremony on site at the hotel and need to book someone asap as i know its very popular now.

I know the civil is quite short but the other ones are a bit longer.

Can anyone give me an idea roughly the length of a Humanist ceremony and what you can and cant do at them?

I have emailed 2 Humanist celebrants to see if they are available and what is involved so hoping to hear back soon, but would also like someones personal opinion.

Many thanks.

Andreac a humanist ceremony will last around 30 mins, and will not include anything that would be considered spiritual, ie hymns, readings, songs etc.

In the context you're describing, it would be worth exploring exactly what different celebrants would offer to you & your OH in terms of ceremony style. Some celebrants will only do spiritual ceremonies, some will have absolutely nothing spiritual, and some (like me!) work from an Interfaith perspective- which caters for couples of all beliefs and none.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me. And enjoy planning your ceremony!! There is such beautiful freedom in being able to create your own bespoke ceremony

rainbow kirby · 09-06-2015 10:26PM

andreac wrote: »

Can anyone give me an idea roughly the length of a Humanist ceremony and what you can and cant do at them?

Ours was short - only around 25 minutes long, but we didn't have a handfasting or unity candles etc. We had a lot of choice around what readings we used - one of ours was pretty cheeky! No religious content though, which was absolutely fine by us, neither of us had any desire to include any.

fannymagee · 09-06-2015 10:36PM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Ours was short - only around 25 minutes long, but we didn't have a handfasting or unity candles etc. We had a lot of choice around what readings we used - one of ours was pretty cheeky! No religious content though, which was absolutely fine by us, neither of us had any desire to include any.

Haha I'm curious about the cheeky one RainbowKirby!! Can you tell us, or is it a personal one? I LOVE hearing about quirky ceremonies!!

rainbow kirby · 09-06-2015 10:43PM

This one

Neyite · 09-06-2015 10:45PM

I love it RK!

fannymagee · 09-06-2015 10:48PM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

This one

Is it the one about the Emporer's New Clothes?! ;-)

fannymagee · 09-06-2015 10:55PM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

This one

Only joking, found the link and oh my God that's BRILLIANT!! So original. And awww, I love the last line. Any ceremony that includes the words "love handles" is a winner in my book

rainbow kirby · 09-06-2015 11:02PM

Was a bit worried about what the older generation would think, but it pretty much broke any tension in the room and relaxed people. We used it as the first reading, then used On Your Wedding Day as the second one, then an original one from my husband's brother.

andreac · 09-06-2015 11:09PM

Oh trust me. There will certainly be no hymns etc at mine lol. I am totally anti religion and church. But you can put your own twist on it with poems or a little reading, non religious of course.

I have Billy Hutchinson booked already for our ceremony and we are delighted with him.

rainbow kirby · 09-06-2015 11:39PM

We had Tina Storey, really liked her

Toots · 10-06-2015 03:48PM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

This one

That's brilliant! I teared up at the last line

stickybookmark · 13-06-2015 10:53PM

obriendj wrote: »

Hi there

Just wondering if there is any advice on how to deal with an upcoming wedding. Myself and the OH are only engaged a few weeks but this has become an issue

I am sure this that this has been discussed before when people cant decide how to resolve this conflict.

My OH always wanted to get married in a church when she was growing up. I presume this was down to a fairy tale wedding. But since we got together she has known that I am not religious so she got used to the idea that a church wedding was unlikely.

But since the recent engagement her mother has been asking her what her plan is, she was told that we haven't decided, but started an argument with her over it. Telling her that Civil Ceremonies are not correct. She hasn't been to a humanist wedding so considers them the same.

She told me what happened later and my OH got upset and I agreed that I should give in and allow the ceremony to take place in one of 2 churches. One close to her home and one close to her grannies and not have a full mass. But this limits where we can have the reception.

My reasoning for having a humanist would be the following
- I am not religious - its not just the catholic church, i dont believe in spiritual world - i could be wrong but that is what i think.
- I find sitting at a church wedding for 90 mins is not something i want to do or want my guests to go through. The day is dragged out enough with out the extra 2 hours - if you want to go to mass go on Sunday.
- I don't go to Mass neither does she. I don't want to be a hypocrite. There is an argument that loads of other couples get married in a church who are not religious. I don't care what anyone else does, this is our day and our choice.
- I am angry at her mother for this. My family wouldn't care if I was getting married in a drive thru chapel in Vegas they would still be there for me. I now worry that every decision that we make might have to get the in laws approval.

After I had agreed, she was delighted but woke up thinking I have done the wrong thing. I do need to talk to the OH and perhaps her mother but she won't change her mind, (because what would the neighbours say...)

But I am wondering should I dig my feet in or to just let it go. Any one in a similar boat?

Thanks

Have you sorted this OP? I have a good few tips on how to make a catholic ceremony as short as possible and more interesting than the usual but won't bore you if you're already sorted it!

byhookorbycrook · 13-06-2015 11:10PM

December2012 wrote: »

That's not true. Look at the Community National Schools and the Educate Together schools. Neither require baptism nor teach under a religious doctrine.

Many Catholic schools don't look for a baptism cert and many Gaelscoileanna , being multi-denom like ET schools don't either.

snickerpuss · 14-06-2015 09:11AM

andreac wrote: »

I have Billy Hutchinson booked already for our ceremony and we are delighted with him.

Billy married us at the end of April and he was super. So lovely to deal with and really helpful with lots of tips and suggestions for the ceremony.

Church vs Humanist wedding

Comments