Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

mayo.mick wrote: »

http://galwaybayfm.ie/renewed-hope-athenry-greenway/

Great to see things finally moving!

Saw that on the Galway Advertiser this morning...

http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk//launch.aspx?pbid=a2fc81f2-0ccf-4dbf-aca1-00bedf4bde35 It's on page two.

I read that too. I see IE are proposing to run an inspection car down the route to protect ownership, I assume they mean a Land Rover or Mule RRV seeing as much of the track is buried or lost! Other than that, WOT are still living in a fairy tale land if they think it will re-open for freight.

corktina wrote: »

https://irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/west-on-track-announce-new-freight-initiative-at-claremorris/

don.t bank on it!

Here's a paragraph from that link that says it all.

"Frank Dawson of West on Track stated that “the true potential of rail freight in Ireland is untapped” and noted that it would cost €25-30m to reinstate the railway line from Athenry to Claremorris, allowing the decongestion of the existing Inter-City route from Claremorris to Athlone."
!!!!!!!
The 'decongestion' of the Claremorris-Athlone route????
Elsewhere in the debate, they spoke of the seven goods trains a week that come out of Ballina. How congested is that?
A huge dose of reality needs to be injected into this abject nonsense, and I'm amazed that the chair of the oireachtas committee didn't run the whole lot of them out of the place, with all the fantasy stuff that was being peddled as facts. Maybe he knows something we don't, but to describe the claremorris-athlone line as congested is just so far off the wall as to be laughable.
Irish rail could double the amount of freight on that route, and nobody would notice, but what chance is there of that happening? If they get a change to freight, the best they can hope hope for would be ten or twenty percent -- one more train in tonnage terms but in reality an extra wagon on existing trains.
The freight being hauled around the north west doesn't translate easily to rail, most of it is unsuited to rail. For instance, will the collection of milk from farms be done by railway? The delivery of concrete to building sites? The distribution of food to supermarkets? The distribution of beer to pubs, or TVs to electrical shops?
Most of our freight in rural ireland is part of the supply chain or lies in the distributive sector, and can't be measured in the context of planning for rail freight infrastructure. A look at the kinds of trucks on the road says a lot -- mostly curtainsiders or tail lift rigids. Not a lot of containers.
The chair of the committee bent over backwards to pander to this nonsense this week; he shouldn't encourage them, even if they're neighbours. This committee is supposed to be part of our legislative process, not a get-together of a little gang of pub pals talking sh* te in Claremorris.

corktina wrote: »

https://irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/west-on-track-announce-new-freight-initiative-at-claremorris/

In 2014 over 1000 chartered freight trains operated to and from Mayo and the Ports of Waterford and Dublin.

Great, so why do we need to spend €25-30m to reinstate the railway line from Athenry to Claremorris? No doubt they presented the above stat to the Joint Oireachtas Transport and Communications committee as supportive of reopening the line, when it really proves that the line does not need to reopen. Mayo is clearly well served in terms of freight train connections to ports, why do they need to connect to Foynes? Sure the railway to Foynes hasnt even been reinstated yet, the cost of that should also be taken into account here.

corktina wrote: »

I agree freight only routes are usueful and cheap, but can the nation afford to pay for this unless there is a lot of extra traffic on offer?

of course, one could extend that argument to many things including the whole rail network , it boils down to a matter of public policy in the end

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If the issue is congestion on the existing network, surely the €25-30m required to reopen the line from Athenry to Claremorris would be better spent on improvements to the existing network (which would benefit both freight and passenger services) rather than opening a new line (which incurs additional ongoing maintenance costs) for a couple of freight trains a day? For that money you could create a few passing loops and increase speeds on some sections of existing trafficked lines.

Its a call, there are benefits to freight only lines as they can be run considerably cheaper then passenger lines.

Little can easily be done to create more low speed capacity on existing inter urban single track lines as IR is experiencing , other then perhaps double tracking them. ( as is now happening in the UK). Most of irelands rail network was built to accommodate low speed freight traffic rather then passenger traffic and therefore its badly designed for high capacity high speed & frequency as required by modern commuting.

As a result of short sightedness in IR, there are also opportunities for rail connected ports like Foynes and Waterford to actually take particular advantage of that fact as some major ports like cork , will never be effectively reconnected to the national rail network.

Its a long shot, but if freight can be justified I see it having a lot of advantages to have a WRC freight only connection to the NW.

westtip wrote: »

Ballina freight line is due entirely to one customer. Coca-Cola. It has nothing to do with "dynamic" irish rail management.

The phrase "hear from certain sections" is rather like someone saying "I heard a bloke down the pub say this"

The greenway campaigners are not anti rail,but they are pragmatic - if a railway and greenway could be accomodated on the route so be it, the simple truth is there is not an overwhelming case for the railway to re-open and in this day and age for any capital project to go ahead an overwhelming case has to be made. However there is a very strong case to utilise the route as a greenway - we all know this. On economic grounds a greenway from Collooney to Athenry would cost about 7 million and probably bring that much in tourism and leisure spend in the first two years. A railway? we really don't know the capital cost, but it would cost a lot to subvent as well as build. The economic argument does not exist. Nobody is going to sign off on a capital project for a freight only railway line for an apparent demand from companies that don't exist yet. Get used to it. It's not going to happen.

Ballina has liner trains, timber trains, concentrate trains. Its a beacon for what could be done elsewhere in irish rail, where it not for the terrible strategic decision taken by IR.

Its primarily and fore mostly a rail line, thats what greenway campaigners must accept. If there is a possibility of it returning to active use , then thats what it should be used for.

running down rail infrastructure as an argument for a cycleway or walkway is a poor argument and zero sum game, however of course Ireland is famous for that sort of thing. If this thread is to be taken as a guide, then such supporters are in fact anti-rail, simply because they see a rail line as an easy target to get what they want.

Lenton Lane wrote: »

You're making assumptions based on the current traffic levels. There are more potential freight opportunities out there, especially with getting the Foynes like up and running.

All railway networks plan for the future rather than what is happening right now.

I have no doubt that there is more potential freight opportunities out there, I seriously doubt that there is enough potential freight traffic in Mayo which requires a specific rail connection to Foynes Port only (i.e. for which Dublin or Waterford do not suffice) to justify spending €25m. And thats without including the cost of reinstating the line from Limerick to Foynes which will also be required.

BoatMad wrote: »

Its a call, there are benefits to freight only lines as they can be run considerably cheaper then passenger lines.

Little can easily be done to create more low speed capacity on existing inter urban single track lines as IR is experiencing , other then perhaps double tracking them. ( as is now happening in the UK). Most of irelands rail network was built to accommodate low speed freight traffic rather then passenger traffic and therefore its badly designed for high capacity high speed & frequency as required by modern commuting.

As a result of short sightedness in IR, there are also opportunities for rail connected ports like Foynes and Waterford to actually take particular advantage of that fact as some major ports like cork , will never be effectively reconnected to the national rail network.

Its a long shot, but if freight can be justified I see it having a lot of advantages to have a WRC freight only connection to the NW.

The WRC is not freight only, Limerick - Athenry has passenger services. Not really sure what the point here is, the potential of freight traffic in general is a separate matter, in relation to Athenry - Claremorris, only freight from Mayo or northern Galway to Foynes is relevant, freight to other ports can and is served on the existing network.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I have no doubt that there is more potential freight opportunities out there, I seriously doubt that there is enough potential freight traffic in Mayo which requires a specific rail connection to Foynes Port only (i.e. for which Dublin or Waterford do not suffice) to justify spending €25m. And thats without including the cost of reinstating the line from Limerick to Foynes which will also be required.

The WRC is not freight only, Limerick - Athenry has passenger services. Not really sure what the point here is, the potential of freight traffic in general is a separate matter, in relation to Athenry - Claremorris, only freight from Mayo or northern Galway to Foynes is relevant, freight to other ports can and is served on the existing network.

Limerick Foynes , doesn't require much reinstatement its basically usable , its needs some bridge modifications etc

I made the point that the current interurban rail network is very unsuited now to freight, high speed more frequent running, clogged approaches to Dublin, lack of loops, sidings and the comparably slow sped of many freight trains, means that train paths for freight are awkward and sometimes problematic, especially during daylight hours. IR have , in my mind , made very strategic errors in removing train paths suitable for freight

Freight only ( or very lightly used passenger ) lines especially sligo-limerick-waterford would have an advantage of being available for freight paths without any significant rail disruption , ( though Limerick LJ is somewhat of an issue)

serfboard wrote: »

Classic WOT argument (one of two).

1. Ye up in Dublin are agin us in the Wesht,

and, for those in the West,

2. Anyone that doesn't support the WRC is anti-rail.

One tends to hear less of argument 1 these days becuase, I suspect, WOT realised it made them sound like eejits, and as for argument 2, people like myself are not anti-rail, but are rather against large amount of captial expenditure, and significant amounts of ongoing current expenditure, being used to subvent trains meandering slowly around the country carrying eight (or is it nine?) passengers.

The new emphasis on freight also suggests to me that WOT are now realising that there is no traction to be gained from the passengers argument (since there are no passengers) and are desperately trying to use the freight argument instead.

The statistic they quoted is laughable - 1000 freight trains in 2014. That's (less than) three freight trains a day. Sounds like congestion to me, alright :rolleyes:

No more then then Greenway supporters , I support WOT as an advocacy group, I have serious differences on the value of WRC then they do, but I support their right to advocate solutions , no more then I do greenway supporters .

The fact is it is a piece of rail infrastructure thats the fact foremost.

unless you understand freight movements and train paths, you will not understand how freight congestion occurs , particularly in the Irish rail network as it is constructed and operated today. Problems have arisen repeatedly in freight movements in the past m resulting in nighttime movements, which are often unsuited to customer demand or operational costs.etc

All advocacy groups inflate numbers and use top of the curve numbers etc. thats to be expected. WRC isn't a failure merely because it didn't hit the high end numbers, whats actually a great success, is the recent initiative that putting on more frequent trains and offering concession fares dramatically increased usage, its a lesson IR could utilise elsewhere on under-utilised lines

nd significant amounts of ongoing current expenditure, being used to subvent trains meandering slowly around the country carrying eight (or is it nine?) passengers.

Rather then parrot nonsense , you might examine why in certain circumstances IR has terrible loading patterns on certain lines. The WRC is actually and example of what you can do if you actually run enough trains at useful times and with appropriate fares. They could usually do the same between Limerick and waterford for example.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If the issue is a lack of loops and sidings then surely the solution is to create more loops and sidings, which can surely be done for less than opening two lines at a cost of over €30m.

Also, there is no guarantee that the producers of the freight want to ship through Foynes.

I dont know enough about Foynes Port current revaluation of using its rail connections, They seem optimistic however that it will lead to the reopening of the junction

loops and sidings are only part of the problem in developing ( or redeveloping ) rail freight ) in Ireland. Changes in running speeds and track configurations, high capacity commuter etc have all made freight paths increasingly difficult. Its very difficult to mix high speed frequent passenger trains with long slow( er) freight trains. IR has for example a policy of moving to shorter faster more frequent services on all major interurban links, ( hourly 100mph services ). This is actually very very difficult on single track infrastructure and when you add slow freight it gets even worse.

There is a distinct advantage in having available alternative train paths for freight that allow more flexibility and hence better customer fit

Whether all this will happen, remains to be seen, IR is not currently a pro freight railway, at present it wont have any suitable locos within 10 years anyway