Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Would Irish fascism be all bad?

Options
  • 02-03-2015 9:49pm
    #1
    4512
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭


    With a lack of pride in self, would a fascist revolution in Ireland (whether violent or non-violent) not be what this country needs as a kick-start to an economic and political rejuvenation?


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    What makes you think it doesn't exist already,in that case I'd say it does well for some and not for others.


  • Options
    #3
    4512
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭4512


    cerastes wrote: »
    What makes you think it doesn't exist already,in that case I'd say it does well for some and not for others.
    What about mass rallies and proper nationalism being taught in schools? Its about time fascism became more mainstream.


  • Options
    #4
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Worth a shot. Nothing bad has ever come out of fascism.


  • Options
    #5
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    4512 wrote: »
    What about mass rallies and proper nationalism being taught in schools? Its about time fascism became more mainstream.

    Perhaps you could give us what your opinion of the definition of racism edit, (I meant facism)what facism is?
    Whatever they call it, we seem to have some form of it here already, not that I think you're serious anymore, mass rallies for what? Could be a good thing or a bad thing.anti govt mass rallies, good, other things? Depends on what it is.


  • Options
    #6
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,087 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Wouldn't work here we hate/begrudge each other too much to hate anyone else on the level required for fascism.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    4512 wrote: »
    With a lack of pride in self, would a fascist revolution in Ireland (whether violent or non-violent) not be what this country needs as a kick-start to an economic and political rejuvenation?
    Yes it would be terrible and contrary to what you seem to think would hurt us hugely economically.


  • Options
    #8
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    4512 wrote: »
    With a lack of pride in self, would a fascist revolution in Ireland (whether violent or non-violent) not be what this country needs as a kick-start to an economic and political rejuvenation?
    I think you would have to be more specific when you talk about Fascism.

    Do you mean one of the historical interpretations of Fascism, and if so which? Italian? German? Spanish? Argentinian?

    Do you mean one of the ideologies that has come from historical Fascism, and if so which? Neo-nazism? Post-Fascism?

    Or something else again that incorporates some Fascist concepts in an updated ideology?

    At the end of the day, Fascism is not a single unified ideology despite the stereotypes that are often trotted out. As such talking about a Fascist revolution, system or whatever is a bit meaningless as it could mean a whole range of things.


  • Options
    #9
    4512
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭4512


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    I think you would have to be more specific when you talk about Fascism.

    Do you mean one of the historical interpretations of Fascism, and if so which? Italian? German? Spanish? Argentinian?

    Do you mean one of the ideologies that has come from historical Fascism, and if so which? Neo-nazism? Post-Fascism?

    Or something else again that incorporates some Fascist concepts in an updated ideology?

    At the end of the day, Fascism is not a single unified ideology despite the stereotypes that are often trotted out. As such talking about a Fascist revolution, system or whatever is a bit meaningless as it could mean a whole range of things.
    Fascism as in a united political party, no reward without contribution and glorification of ones nation. Fascism does not necessarily mean racism or xenophobia people!


  • Options
    #10
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    4512 wrote: »
    Fascism does not necessarily mean racism or xenophobia people!

    It certainly requires at least one of the two.


  • Options
    #11
    4512
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭4512


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    It certainly requires at least one of the two.

    Not necessarily, fascism is pragmatic, i.e. there is not one definition of fascism.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    4512 wrote: »
    Not necessarily, fascism is pragmatic, i.e. there is not one definition of fascism.

    Well then perhaps the discussion would be well served if you more clearly defined what we're talking about.


  • Options
    #13
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    4512 wrote: »
    Fascism as in a united political party, no reward without contribution and glorification of ones nation. Fascism does not necessarily mean racism or xenophobia people!
    Could you answer the question without resorting to slogans? As you said yourself, there is no one definition of Fascism, so it would help if you actually fleshed out what you see as a positive implementation.
    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    It certainly requires at least one of the two.
    No actually, at least no more than you'll find in liberal democracies - Germany, was as were the puppet regimes that fell into its sphere, but other Fascist nations behaved largely in the same way on matters of race and xenophobia as countries like Britain or France.


  • Options
    #14
    daUbiq
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭daUbiq


    Amerika is a fascist country:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/is-the-us-a-fascist-society-examining-the-existence-of-fascism-in-the-united-states/5377146.

    Most people believe the nazis represent fascism but there's many more examples...


  • Options
    #15
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    daUbiq wrote: »
    Amerika is a fascist country:
    America is apparently also ruled by nine-foot high blood drinking lizards - do you think there's a connection between Fascism and reptiles?


  • Options
    #16
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    4512 wrote: »
    With a lack of pride in self, would a fascist revolution in Ireland (whether violent or non-violent) not be what this country needs as a kick-start to an economic and political rejuvenation?


    Some others on the thread have asked for clarity with regard to the particular style of fascism you feel we could benefit from, this has left me perplexed. In response I'd like to enquire of those for what ever reason still need of some clarity which form of fascism they feel has a positive lessons for Ireland or indeed any country or peoples ever?

    The monstrosity of your proposal is so over powering it makes it hard to even begin to engage.

    Perhaps you might assist by illustrating how you feel fascism might benefit our nation.


  • Options
    #17
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    The monstrosity of your proposal is so over powering it makes it hard to even begin to engage.
    Why do you feel his 'proposal' (which is a bit vague, TBH) is so "monstrous"? Or to put it another way, if you feel so strongly on the topic, are you in a position to debate it rationally?


  • Options
    #18
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    daUbiq wrote: »
    Amerika is a fascist country:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/is-the-us-a-fascist-society-examining-the-existence-of-fascism-in-the-united-states/5377146.

    Most people believe the nazis represent fascism but there's many more examples...

    Americans actually believe Fascists are Left wingers in disguise. In the same sentence Obama is simultaneously a Fascist, Communist, Socialist and a Islamist.


  • Options
    #19
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Americans actually believe Fascists are Left wingers in disguise.
    In a way, they are - there are actually numerous overlaps between socialism and fascism in terms of policy, particularly economic. This is actually quite well documented and accepted academically.


  • Options
    #20
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    In a way, they are - there are actually numerous overlaps between socialism and fascism in terms of policy, particularly economic. This is actually quite well documented and accepted academically.

    The further right you go the closer to the left you go. Their are similarities between the Christian Democrats and Islamists but nobody is suggesting they are remotely the same. Trotskyites hiding in Mexico were completely different to Stalinists in USSR.


  • Options
    #21
    DubiousV
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭DubiousV


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    America is apparently also ruled by nine-foot high blood drinking lizards - do you think there's a connection between Fascism and reptiles?

    I didn't but I do now!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    daUbiq
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭daUbiq


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    America is apparently also ruled by nine-foot high blood drinking lizards - do you think there's a connection between Fascism and reptiles?

    So you didn't read the article and you haven't been paying attention for the last 30 years... try this one:

    http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html

    Are you an american?


  • Options
    #23
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    4512 wrote: »
    Fascism as in a united political party, no reward without contribution and glorification of ones nation. Fascism does not necessarily mean racism or xenophobia people!

    Oh so you mean multicultural inclusive fascism, that sounds em, what's the phrase...........made up!


  • Options
    #24
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    daUbiq wrote: »
    So you didn't read the article and you haven't been paying attention for the last 30 years...
    I read it and it was a ridiculous conspiracy theory based upon a few simplistic correlations that could be applied to numerous countries.
    try this one:

    http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html
    Another simple minded pile of crap for the mouth breathers out there.
    Are you an american?
    No. What level of education do you have, seeing as we're getting personal?


  • Options
    #25
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Oh so you mean multicultural inclusive fascism, that sounds em, what's the phrase...........made up!
    Where did you get that he meant multicultural, or that if something is not multicultural, then it cannot be inclusive?


  • Options
    #26
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Well, if you don't exclude foreigners you must include them. What's the alternative? Just pretend they don't exist?


  • Options
    #27
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Well, if you don't exclude foreigners you must include them. What's the alternative? Just pretend they don't exist?
    So the only way they can be included is for the society to be multicultural?


  • Options
    #28
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    I think it's a natural side effect of true inclusion. I think that societies that strive to protect their own culture like it was some fixed rigid entity are by their very nature unwelcoming to outsiders. Do you not?


  • Options
    #29
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I think it's a natural side effect of true inclusion. I think that societies that strive to protect their own culture like it was some fixed rigid entity are by their very nature unwelcoming to outsiders. Do you not?
    Doesn't work like that in Switzerland. Policy is very much one of integrating into Swiss culture and they have a significantly higher success rate in this regard than most other Western countries, which given the fact that 25% of the population is foreign is probably a good thing.

    What you're proposing sounds more like a natural side effect of exclusion.


  • Options
    #30
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Doesn't work like that in Switzerland. Policy is very much one of integrating into Swiss culture and they have a significantly higher success rate in this regard than most other Western countries, which given the fact that 25% of the population is foreign is probably a good thing.

    What you're proposing sounds more like a natural side effect of exclusion.

    I have to admit I don't know much about Switzerland, I've never even visited, but from what I read here and there it sounds like a very fair and democratic place. I don't see how that could be the case if they were to basically ignore the culture and traditions of a quarter of their population? I'm all for integration but it's a 2 way street surely?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I have to admit I don't know much about Switzerland, I've never even visited, but from what I read here and there it sounds like a very fair and democratic place. I don't see how that could be the case if they were to basically ignore the culture and traditions of a quarter of their population? I'm all for integration but it's a 2 way street surely?
    Switzerland is not a perfect place, but they've done a lot better than most where it comes to integration. That doesn't mean that the cultures that enter the country don't influence Swiss culture too or that all integrate with the same ease, but you do generally find that within two generations the only noticeable difference between an 'Eidgenosse' (Swiss who can trace themselves back a few hundred years to the locality) and a 'naturalized' Swiss is the surname, and perhaps also the first name.

    Migratory groups integrating successfully in the countries they move to has been around a lot longer than this modern concept of multiculturalism - does more Irish than the Irish themselves ring a bell?

    Anyhow, multiculturalism is frankly off-topic. This thread was about whether Fascism would be a good thing for Ireland and without the OP explaining what he means, the question is too vague. Even if he were to narrow it down for us (and I presently have my doubts on this), there's been so many lazy stereotypes, incorrect notions, emotional reactions and conspiracy theories here that I'm not sure the topic can be discussed maturely.


Advertisement