Nastiness in the GAA

yop · 03-03-2015 05:31PM

savannahkat wrote: »

A point of view generally promoted by one who follows a county who are more often in the losers than the winners enclosure..

Nothing to do with his point, understand what his point was before you embarrass yourself.

wackokid · 03-03-2015 06:19PM

WHO SAID THIS........................To get the chance to lead the boys out into this battle was something I was looking forward to. "I said to the boys at half time 'Ye didn't expect anything else, this is going to be a war and a battle'. I think that's what I'm most proud of with the team, that we were able to pull through in a battle.

Clue.......said by a prominent GAA football captain describing a recent match to Eoghan Cormican in the irish Examiner.

Who said anything about nastiness in the GAA?

elefant · 03-03-2015 06:30PM

wackokid wrote: »

WHO SAID THIS........................To get the chance to lead the boys out into this battle was something I was looking forward to. "I said to the boys at half time 'Ye didn't expect anything else, this is going to be a war and a battle'. I think that's what I'm most proud of with the team, that we were able to pull through in a battle.

Clue.......said by a prominent GAA football captain describing a recent match to Eoghan Cormican in the irish Examiner.

Who said anything about nastiness in the GAA?

I don't see the relevance at all of that anecdote?

Boom__Boom · 03-03-2015 06:41PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The reason that Sherwood is unlikey to start is because of pace, it is catching Shane Enright as well. Pace is not an issue in the league with heavy ground however with hard summer ground backs need to be very fast. his physical strength is a real bonus during the league

Doubt Fitzmaurice agrees with you re Sherwood's pace, given when Dublin brought on McManamon late on in the 2013 game, Kerry immediately brought on Sherwood to counter it as a pre-planned move.

Boom__Boom · 03-03-2015 06:52PM

I think it will take a serious on-field injury as a result of nastiness before things change - the thing is that with players so much fitter and stronger it is only a matter of time before someone on the field of play receives a life-changing injury as a result of dirty play.

You will then here a lot of rubbish about how it was out-of-character/untypical from the individual concerned and how he's a lovely bloke off the pitch and a load of nonsense about physicality and being a man's games from the usual suspects.

I had hoped that this year the refs in the league would start giving black cards for the following offences but these rules seem to be there for the sake of it from what I can see. As far as I'm aware a black card has never been given for either of these 2 offences in an inter-county game.

4. Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
5. Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official.

davegrohl48 · 03-03-2015 08:27PM

Has any team even ended up down to 14 players yet because of the black card? I can't recall that there was. To remind it's the 4th one where you lose a player. The watering down of the rule with four n off n six subs took away it's impact.

smileyj1987 · 03-03-2015 11:05PM

As posted above the only time the gaa will change is when a player gets a nasty injury from all the crap of people leaving elbows and the like in on people.
I do think the gaa need to sit down sort it out before it gets to the stage of people turning their back on the game.
I would be of be opinion any form of challenge that has the likes of an elbow driven into someone or a punch being thrown needs to be a straight red. Thang should rid the game of that crap. I love watching a good physical game but you don't want to see players have that done on them.

Turtwig · 03-03-2015 11:21PM

Physicality doesn't have to be removed from a sport. It just needs to be strictly monitored and disciplined. GAA players are getting bigger, stronger, faster and heavier. It's only a matter time before a serious injury happens in the public sphere. The frequency of those injuries will determined by the culture of 'tackling' and 'indiscipline' in the game. Tbh, I'm not overly concerned yet about injuries. There may end up being a few, but even if everything was perfect you'd expect the numbers to be about the same. I certainly wouldn't complain though if such an injury spurred on change. I'm more concerned about the spectacle. The game, football especially, is terrible. It's almost as bad as top tier soccer. Ultimately if things continue the way they are the growth of the game will be hampered.

bruschi · 04-03-2015 09:22AM

I'm not sure I get all the comments that nothing will be done until there is serious injury. There have been multiple, what I would consider, serious injuries from thuggish behaviour for years and years. There have been multiple cases been brought to the courts in the last few years. Players having jaws broken off the ball etc. Or is it only at senior intercounty that we are counting?

I know in one case in Wexford, in a pretty big football game, a player had his jaw and eye socket broken after being punched from behind, way off the ball, by a player who was either a guard or training to be one. I dont think anything ever came of that. It's unfortunate that this is not the only such incident of its kind that you would hear of.

Where I think the GAA administration need to improve, is in its disciplinary measures. Far too many players get off on technical hitches or loopholes. I'd like a system similar to the Aussie rules one, where you have a defined level of suspension for incidents, which are graded on the intent and the force. So for the likes of Connollys red card against Donegal in 2011 (which was rescinded) but he got a straight red for hitting someone, but that goes down as the same as the likes of punching someone in the face. There is no differentiation at the moment in the GAA for the level of force in the action. Pushing someone away like that is not the same as punching, and should be graded as such.

Also, there is no discouragement to appealing either. If you get sent off, and if it is as clear as day, players still appeal as they can just do it with no repercussions. I fully believe, if a player appeals, and loses, 20% or some such number should be added to the suspension. That would cut out all the rubbish appeals for no good reason other than they can appeal for the sake of it.

zombieHanalei · 04-03-2015 10:47AM

Blaming referee's is missing the point, they don't create that culture. The blame lies squarely with players and others who feel it acceptable to act the scumbag. I refuse to accept excuses that outsource blame, end of the day people are responsible for their own behaviour. Plenty of players choose not to get involved in that nonsense.

Imagine if the referee's did suddenly adapt a zero tolerance policy; while on the one hand some would be delighted, I don't think it can be denied that it would cause an absolute ****storm. Managers would be up in arms, players would be up in arms, there would be a considerable amount of criticism in interviews and in newspapers, and I'd be fairly confident that county boards would make it their business to do everything they can to ensure a referee they feel wronged them will never get a big game again.

And there would be a touch of soccer supporter logic amongst fans; best thing in the world when an opposition player gets the line for verbally abusing my player but an absolute joke of a harsh decision when my player is sent off for verbally abusing an opposition player.

I don't buy that it will take a serious injury for things to change. Serious injuries have already occured due to 'underhand tactics'. Brian McGuigan and Henry Shefflin come to mind when both suffered serious eye injuries in 2007 and 2004 respectively....

Unfortunately win at all costs is accepted, it's acceptable to use whatever means necessary to gain an advantage, try to wind your marker up by subjecting him to the most hurtful personal insults you can think of, give him a dig in the ribs when the referee's attentions are elsewhere, make sure to lay down a marker by hitting him hard at some stage, and if one of your teammates is involved in a scuffle join in as quickly as possible.

No interest in accepting responsibility for ones own behaviour. Look at Armagh last year, they acted the bollix for the pre match parade against Cavan last year in a bid to lay down a marker, originating from the win at all costs attitude, they wanted to get into Cavan's heads and in doing so they caused chaos. Maybe the Cavan players shouldn't have reacted but at least they took their medicine; what followed from Armagh for the rest of the year was ridiculous beyond belief; complete and utter refusal to accept they did any wrong, appeals, an embarrassing and cringeworthy media blackout, an absolute joke.

wackokid · 04-03-2015 10:51AM

Have to agree with the above.
Also I suggest that 'fishhooking' another player should carry a ban for life.

HIB · 04-03-2015 11:20AM

Reading Anthony Daly's book at the moment and it gives some insight into the culture of physicality and machismo that exists in hurling. He doesn't quite go as far as admitting pulling dirty strokes in games, but you only have to read between the lines. There's a lot of talk about getting teams sufficiently riled up before a game, being on a 'war footing' running out of the tunnel, 'timbering' the opposition etc. Picture the d'unbelievables gaa trainer sketch, and I'd say you wouldn't be too far off the mark. Small wonder then that fellas go out and belt merry hell out of each other. You can't blame Daly though. He's just trying to win. Up to the GAA to call a halt to the 'run onto the pitch and shoulder your man to the ground without a ball in sight' kind of nonsense. And to tell fellas like Tadhg Kennelly (not Kerry bashing - just picking one example!), that they're simply not welcome.

davegrohl48 · 04-03-2015 11:27AM

The only solution to melees is to have a red card for joining a melee.
If a team tries to get around this by joining with several then the game is off, the match is awarded to opposition.
For the one on one melees it should be black card to the one who started if known. Yellow to both if both started. A player who refuses to stop in a melee should be red.
End of melees overnight almost.
Two teams going all in would be rare n they're both either awarded no points or out of the championship.

Boom__Boom · 04-03-2015 12:22PM

bruschi wrote: »

I'm not sure I get all the comments that nothing will be done until there is serious injury. There have been multiple, what I would consider, serious injuries from thuggish behaviour for years and years. There have been multiple cases been brought to the courts in the last few years. Players having jaws broken off the ball etc. Or is it only at senior intercounty that we are counting?

I was talking about a serious injury to a high profile player in a televised match. I just think it needs to be a high-profile embarrassment before anything will do done that causes a massive outcry ; you are right about stuff happening in lower profile games like club games.

In terms of the injury I was thinking along the lines of a lad actually losing the sight in an eye or suffering a spinal injury and ending up in a wheelchair.

What put it into my mind was the "foul" at the weekend by Wylie on Ronaldson where he threw Ronaldson against the fence.

All I could think of when I saw it was that Wylie was a damm lucky individual when he threw Ronaldson against the fence that Ronaldson didnt hit his head against a bit of concrete or metal. A bit of bad luck and Ronaldson could easily have been in a wheelchair or a come or even dead.
If players continue to act in a similar fashion it's only a matter of time before someone suffers a serious head injury.

paddy no 11 · 04-03-2015 12:54PM

Nothing wrong with physicality but the scum bag element needs to be removed. Mouthing off red card, Diving red card. Abusing referees and officials red card. Refs should be free to give cards as they want and be backed up by the GAA. Clean the game up.

keeponhurling · 04-03-2015 01:43PM

wackokid wrote: »

Have to agree with the above.
Also I suggest that 'fishhooking' another player should carry a ban for life.

Paul Galvin would have you believe that fish-hooking somebody is a good way to calm down a situation !

Dirty Dingus McGee · 04-03-2015 02:55PM

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Blaming referee's is missing the point, they don't create that culture. The blame lies squarely with players and others who feel it acceptable to act the scumbag. I refuse to accept excuses that outsource blame, end of the day people are responsible for their own behaviour. Plenty of players choose not to get involved in that nonsense.

Imagine if the referee's did suddenly adapt a zero tolerance policy; while on the one hand some would be delighted, I don't think it can be denied that it would cause an absolute ****storm. Managers would be up in arms, players would be up in arms, there would be a considerable amount of criticism in interviews and in newspapers, and I'd be fairly confident that county boards would make it their business to do everything they can to ensure a referee they feel wronged them will never get a big game again.

And there would be a touch of soccer supporter logic amongst fans; best thing in the world when an opposition player gets the line for verbally abusing my player but an absolute joke of a harsh decision when my player is sent off for verbally abusing an opposition player.

I don't buy that it will take a serious injury for things to change. Serious injuries have already occured due to 'underhand tactics'. Brian McGuigan and Henry Shefflin come to mind when both suffered serious eye injuries in 2007 and 2004 respectively....

Unfortunately win at all costs is accepted, it's acceptable to use whatever means necessary to gain an advantage, try to wind your marker up by subjecting him to the most hurtful personal insults you can think of, give him a dig in the ribs when the referee's attentions are elsewhere, make sure to lay down a marker by hitting him hard at some stage, and if one of your teammates is involved in a scuffle join in as quickly as possible.

No interest in accepting responsibility for ones own behaviour. Look at Armagh last year, they acted the bollix for the pre match parade against Cavan last year in a bid to lay down a marker, originating from the win at all costs attitude, they wanted to get into Cavan's heads and in doing so they caused chaos. Maybe the Cavan players shouldn't have reacted but at least they took their medicine; what followed from Armagh for the rest of the year was ridiculous beyond belief; complete and utter refusal to accept they did any wrong, appeals, an embarrassing and cringeworthy media blackout, an absolute joke.

In society at large people only behave well because there are laws if there were no laws against Tax Evasion,speeding,fraud etc those laws would be broken repeatedly until something was done by the government to stop it.The same applies to sport the players will do whatever they can get away with if it helps their team as the overall aim is the win and that's all intercounty players really care about.It's extremeley naive to think otherwise and expect the players to behave well when the GAA doesn't demand it of them.

If the GAA themselves stook a zero tolerance policy and backed the referee's to crack down on this nonsense it would disappear very quickly.Changing the culture of a sport takes decades, changing disciplinary measures and backing refere's can happen instantly

Boom__Boom · 08-03-2015 07:32PM

Was reading the report's on some of today's action and in some shocking news, it appears that a referee has actually issued a black card for dissent.

Twas the Derry game and it was James Kielt who got it and the referee who gave it was one Ciaran Branagan.

TopOfTheRight · 09-03-2015 10:58AM

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Was reading the report's on some of today's action and in some shocking news, it appears that a referee has actually issued a black card for dissent.

Twas the Derry game and it was James Kielt who got it and the referee who gave it was one Ciaran Branagan.

Good to hear but I think there's a bit of a problem here that is probably not ever going to be an issue at inter county level; twice last summer I saw & heard players calling the referee every name under the sun only for the referee to take the easy way out in both cases and issuing a black card instead of a red one.

Dissent is disputing a free or obstructing the free taker, abuse is abuse and should always be a red.

Boom__Boom · 09-03-2015 03:25PM

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

Good to hear but I think there's a bit of a problem here that is probably not ever going to be an issue at inter county level; twice last summer I saw & heard players calling the referee every name under the sun only for the referee to take the easy way out in both cases and issuing a black card instead of a red one.

Dissent is disputing a free or obstructing the free taker, abuse is abuse and should always be a red.

Actually I think I was careless/wrong/inaccurate in my use of the word dissent for Kielt's offence.

Also I've just been looking at the current rules and I don't see anywhere where a referee can give a red card for abuse of any official. As far as I can abuse of an official has to be a black card.

However you can be sent off (red card) for dissent (which is just disagreeing with an official's decision without being abusive) if it's a second caution-able offence i.e. a 2nd yellow card.

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/Official%20Guide%202014%20Part%20II(1).pdf

TopOfTheRight · 09-03-2015 04:01PM

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Actually I think I was careless/wrong/inaccurate in my use of the word dissent for Kielt's offence.

Also I've just been looking at the current rules and I don't see anywhere where a referee can give a red card for abuse of any official. As far as I can abuse of an official has to be a black card.

However you can be sent off (red card) for dissent (which is just disagreeing with an official's decision without being abusive) if it's a second caution-able offence i.e. a 2nd yellow card.

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/Official%20Guide%202014%20Part%20II(1).pdf

No, it's still there (and rightly so);

5.20 To use abusive language to a Referee, Umpire,

Linesman or Sideline Official.

PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -

(i) Order offender off.

5.14 To threaten or to use abusive or provocative

language or gestures to an opponent or teammate.

PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -

(i) Order the offender off by showing him a

Black Card.

Referees can easily take the easy way our and show black instead of red, that's my problem with it

Boom__Boom · 09-03-2015 04:25PM

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

Referees can easily take the easy way our and show black instead of red, that's my problem with it

Cheers - thought it might have been removed when the black came in and couldn't find it when I'd a look

The thing is that while it does offer the ref a way out, I think that refs were very hesitant to give reds for this offence -as they were bound to get nonsense about ruining the game.

At least with the black the offender is some bit likelier to get punished, even if it's still too rare for my liking.

Nastiness in the GAA

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