Nastiness in the GAA

corny

So watched a few games over the weekend and the one thing they all had in common was the under current of absolute nastiness. The constant pushing, pulling, trying to provoke reactions. Its horrible to watch. Seems players can't distinguish between good honest effort and this disgusting behaviour. Its anything to gain an advantage it seems.

Its not confined to the inter county game either.

Is everyone happy with this?

keeponhurling

Like it or not, it's an integral part of the inter county game.
Personally I'd prefer less emphasis on the physical stuff, and more on the skillful play.

Plenty good hurlers and footballers through out the country , but there's a reason Kilkenny hurlers, Kerry, Tyrone footballers etc. can be so successful.

The media is full of journalists who just say "sure it's a man's game"

On the hurling side, the GAA even went out of their way to undermine refs clamping down in this, as they rescinded a few red cards in big games in 2013.
They should only be overruling decisions if the ref got it clearly got it wring , not this "yerra I know he hit him over the head recklessly with a hurley, but sure leave him off" nonsense.

Brian Cody even suggested yellow and red cards should be done away with!

yop

Well funny you should say that, but the way that the Mayo lad was thrown into the signage today by a Monaghan player was incredibly nasty to say the least, he gave no regard to the opposition players safety when he forcefully through him into a steel sign.

I have to add though I think in this match as in other games I've been to this year is that the referee has not helped the games, totally bizarre decisions and cards, especially today, go on everyones nerve, so this only lead to players been pumped up big time.

Dirty Dingus McGee

If something nasty happens the referees should be handing out cards and eventually when players realise that they won't get away with pulling and dragging, body checks , shouting in opponents faces etc. they will stop doing it.

The problem is that refs are too afraid to hand out cards when they should be handed out.

If you are allowed to get away with something without being punished a player will keep on doing it if it helps his team and can you blame them for that.

rebel girl 15

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

If something nasty happens the referees should be handing out cards and eventually when players realise that they won't get away with pulling and dragging, body checks , shouting in opponents faces etc. they will stop doing it.

The problem is that refs are too afraid to hand out cards when they should be handed out.

If you are allowed to get away with something without being punished a player will keep on doing it if it helps his team and can you blame them for that.

That - I was about to post the exact same thing. The best referees will hand out cards where they are warrented, no matter what time in the game. Problem is that a number of red cards ones have been overturned on appeal, making the referees look powerless, and their name being dragged through the media.

Of course, if you think you will get away with it, you are 100% going to do it to try and get the edge.

NIMAN

Its because the game is played like its now a professional sport, and in professional sport its win at all costs.

Gaelic football was always going to go the way of soccer, ruined by cheating, diving, fouling, play-acting, gamesmanship, once the win-at-all-costs culture started.

keeponhurling

yop wrote: »

Well funny you should say that, but the way that the Mayo lad was thrown into the signage today by a Monaghan player was incredibly nasty to say the least, he gave no regard to the opposition players safety when he forcefully through him into a steel sign.

Now now, couldn't have a referee reprimanding a player for that sort of thing, lest they would "ruin the game"

davegrohl48

The win at all costs and foul play is usually defended strongest by those who it suits the most. If there were rule changes to make it a sport best suited to agile/skillful players there'd be a whole host of hatchet merchants n grey stony faced managers lamenting that the GAA are ruining the game. We should just sit back till its only a bunch of 14/15 stone athletes with basic skills. Not every player is in favour of win at all costs. I hate this line "Any player would have done the same". I also cant stand all the pitch devils n off pitch angels. I'm sorry but ya can't just wash yer hands of yer actions on the pitch.

corny

Not sure I agree the onus is solely on referees. Players shouldn't need reminding its not OK to behave like a scumbag. They should learn those lessons as children. I agree the officials can be empowered to clamp down on this sort of stuff but the will just isn't there. Needs a push from the wider audience.

Also don't think professionalism has anything to do with. Rugby's a professional game and doesn't have the same problem.

Its a slippery slope for me. I've stopped watching soccer because of the blatant dishonesty. The GAA is slowly going the same way. Don't mean to be too dramatic but its insidious.

davegrohl48

Delaying of frees n pushing match melees are in every game now. It's causing a big problem for the quality of games. Always seems to be the same three or four players on teams involved.

citykat

keeponhurling wrote: »

Plenty good hurlers and footballers through out the country , but there's a reason Kilkenny hurlers, Kerry, Tyrone footballers etc. can be so successful.

The media is full of journalists who just say "sure it's a man's game"

On the hurling side, the GAA even went out of their way to undermine refs clamping down in this, as they rescinded a few red cards in big games in 2013.
They should only be overruling decisions if the ref got it clearly got it wring , not this "yerra I know he hit him over the head recklessly with a hurley, but sure leave him off" nonsense.

Brian Cody even suggested yellow and red cards should be done away with!

This wasn't supposed to be a platform for anti-Kilkenny claptrap. If you think Kilkenny have been as successful as they have due to nastiness, I would have to question your knowledge of hurling. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
Under Cody, Kilkenny have less yellow/red cards per game than any other top tier county. But I suppose this must be down to Cody's Yoda-like powers in controlling referees and their decisions.

I watched the Dublin/Kerry game today. Now there was a showpiece in nastiness. 7 yellow, 4 black cards (should've been 5!), 1 red card.

Keep on hurling!!

walshyn93

I used to think nothing of it when I played. I certainly never would have thrown someone into signage, but some teams you needed to beat them at their own game.

It's a bit of a joke to say "it's a man's game" when you see Ireland ruthlessly smash England today with perfect discipline. Now I'm older I see nothing manly about reckless indiscipline.

eddie73

I would have to agree. It is a tough game, and that is fine. But if players are going to put each other into fences at the sides of pitches, then it is going to end badly. Refs are doing their best. The ref at the Donegal Cork game today did pretty well. He lined one of our lads, deservedly, although there was no danger of serious injury. But it corrected a bit of niggle that was developing. Its a pity that it happens, but if decisions are ignored that have to be made, then there is a serious problem waiting to happen. We will see later in the year, i have a funny feeling that this year there is a disaster waiting to happen if things dont improve.

Dirty Dingus McGee

100% of Gaelic Footballs problems are due to the administrators.

For some unknown reason yellow cards are not handed out for jersey pulling (in my opinion jersey pulling should be a black card offence) which is constant in some games (including the Dublin v Kerry match) and very visible yet referee's never hand out cards and the administrators don't point out that they should be yellow cards and tell the refs to start issuing them.If we end up with some games with 6 or 7 sendings off because of jersey pulling so be it, the players will do anything (in any sport) as long as they can get away with it and they are getting away with it now.If they get sent off for jersey pulling the players will learn their lesson but honestly It is a part of game that could be cured over night.

keeponhurling

citykat wrote: »

This wasn't supposed to be a platform for anti-Kilkenny claptrap. If you think Kilkenny have been as successful as they have due to nastiness, I would have to question your knowledge of hurling. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
Under Cody, Kilkenny have less yellow/red cards per game than any other top tier county. But I suppose this must be down to Cody's Yoda-like powers in controlling referees and their decisions.

I watched the Dublin/Kerry game today. Now there was a showpiece in nastiness. 7 yellow, 4 black cards (should've been 5!), 1 red card.

Keep on hurling!!

Didn't mean it to he an anti- KK rant at all.

The Cody comments were just something that came to mind as an example that there's no real appetite to stamp out dangerous play.

nice_guy80

If the referees enforced the rules on players and managers then it would be reduced fairly quickly

yop

Spotted this posted last night, he got the 1st and 2nd decision bang on, he gave 2 yellows then to 2 lads who weren't the main culprits.

bruschi

keeponhurling wrote: »

Now now, couldn't have a referee reprimanding a player for that sort of thing, lest they would "ruin the game"

he gave a red card without any hesitation, what more do you want the referee to do?

GBXI

There is a serious level of nastiness in GAA, both hurling and football. However, as someone above said, it is not the referees fault. It is 100% the administrators fault - they have no interest in tackling it, if you'll excuse the pun.

The nastiness/dirtiness/violence is culturally embedded in the GAA, it's been there for decades. As was also pointed out above, this situation could be improved dramatically very quickly but in my opinion it won't/doesn't happen because of highly conservative/traditionalist administrators.

wackokid

Brolly is right. Outsiders see GAA games in the same way as they see ' topless darts' or 'mud wrestling'. He is absolutely right, but nobody listens.
Most of these league games are total mayhem with silly little men in black with whistles, most of whom never played football outside the school yard, attempting to enforce non existent rules.
Kinsella in Killarney was a great example of the above and did exactly as he was programmed to do by Tony O Keefe who appointed him in the 1st place.
Donaghy's loutish behaviour at the end was not the type of stuff associated with the Captain of a Kerry senior football team but he knew well that Kinsella would allow anything. Imagine Mick O Connell or Mikey Sheehy acting like that?
That double riot also near the end was simply the result of players realizing they would get away with anything.
Up north, McQuillan gave Donegal a few tap overs just to please the faithful and penalised a Cork defender for daring to stand in the way of Toye as he charged into him with feet off the ground. Free to Donegal, and a point of course.
Now McQuillan, along with Reilly and Kinsella has a history of crazy refereeing decisions but they will of course continue on their merry way.
About time the GAA recruited about ten recently retired senior intercounty footballers, give them a crash course on the rudiments and pay them a decent fee. Simple, isn't it?

Ace2007

GBXI wrote: »

There is a serious level of nastiness in GAA, both hurling and football. However, as someone above said, it is not the referees fault. It is 100% the administrators fault - they have no interest in tackling it, if you'll excuse the pun.

The nastiness/dirtiness/violence is culturally embedded in the GAA, it's been there for decades. As was also pointed out above, this situation could be improved dramatically very quickly but in my opinion it won't/doesn't happen because of highly conservative/traditionalist administrators.

I think the problem is 2 fold to be honest - one is the mentality of players/manager and the other is the refs.

The main problem i see is the win at all costs mentality, If you know there is a hot head player in the opposition you'll target him and look for a reaction - the likes of Connolly or O'Gara - these players will more often than not react if you punch them in the face or whatever - where else someone players won't.

No body wants to see players going down holding the faces injured, so the logically step then is to react, if you don't the slight digs/pulling back off the ball etc will just continue and ref/lines men with do nothing.

Which leads me to the next point, the refs don't care what happens, a defender for example could be digging you in the back, tucking you off the ball etc, if say O'Gara responses by pushing him or squaring up - the ref just gives 2 yellows - that to me shouldn't happen - Ref doesn't want to know why they are squaring up to each other. And then what happens - defenders switch and next guy tries to win up the forward who is already booked. It's no coincidence the same players are in the headlines.

I'd actually say the next match you go to - spend 10/15 mins just watching the forward line, and you'll see why certain players get wound up.

The whole Give Respect get Respect goes out the window at times.

I was at the Dublin v Donegal game there a few weeks ago - about 8 rows in from the pitch, and the guy beside me was going livid, there was off the ball sfuff from both teams in from on the linesman - who just turned a blind eye. If players get no protection from officials it ultimately leads to them reacting - which will go unnoticed unless a) ref spots it, b) a player collapses from a punch and the whole crowd see it and put pressure on.

Farmer Pudsey

keeponhurling wrote: »

Like it or not, it's an integral part of the inter county game.
Personally I'd prefer less emphasis on the physical stuff, and more on the skillful play.

Plenty good hurlers and footballers through out the country , but there's a reason Kilkenny hurlers, Kerry, Tyrone footballers etc. can be so successful.

The media is full of journalists who just say "sure it's a man's game"

On the hurling side, the GAA even went out of their way to undermine refs clamping down in this, as they rescinded a few red cards in big games in 2013.
They should only be overruling decisions if the ref got it clearly got it wring , not this "yerra I know he hit him over the head recklessly with a hurley, but sure leave him off" nonsense.

Brian Cody even suggested yellow and red cards should be done away with!

Was this the year when Tommy Walsh clocked the ref with the hurley and it was an accident.

davegrohl48 wrote: »

The win at all costs and foul play is usually defended strongest by those who it suits the most. If there were rule changes to make it a sport best suited to agile/skillful players there'd be a whole host of hatchet merchants n grey stony faced managers lamenting that the GAA are ruining the game. We should just sit back till its only a bunch of 14/15 stone athletes with basic skills. Not every player is in favour of win at all costs. I hate this line "Any player would have done the same". I also cant stand all the pitch devils n off pitch angels. I'm sorry but ya can't just wash yer hands of yer actions on the pitch.

Football and hurling were always win at all costs. Paddy Bawn Brosnan stood on a ball for 30 seconds as an injury was sorted as he the goalie and penalty taker talked. The penalty taker forgot to move the ball. Physical contact is an integral part of GAA last Sunday Sherwood got MOM against Dublin rightly so, however he will not start in the championship(I hope). Life is about cute hoorism on and off the field however I accept that there are boundary's that should not be crossed but stupity is not the answer either.

citykat wrote: »

I watched the Dublin/Kerry game today. Now there was a showpiece in nastiness. 7 yellow, 4 black cards (should've been 5!), 1 red card.

I was at the game considering the conditions it was a good game. Some brillant play by both teams. Fitzmaurice put a burr under Kerry at half time, Dublin tried to bully but Kery bullied back. Have not watched it on TV but more than likely totally different. After half time Kerry stopped being stupid and took points rather than trying for a goal.

However cannot understand why Kerry are favorites for All Ireland it was only a Dublin second string and they kept us to two points. IMO Dublin have to be favourites for Sam.

Mysterypunter

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Was this the year when Tommy Walsh clocked the ref with the hurley and it was an accident.





Football and hurling were always win at all costs. Paddy Bawn Brosnan stood on a ball for 30 seconds as an injury was sorted as he the goalie and penalty taker talked. The penalty taker forgot to move the ball. Physical contact is an integral part of GAA last Sunday Sherwood got MOM against Dublin rightly so, however he will not start in the championship(I hope). Life is about cute hoorism on and off the field however I accept that there are boundary's that should not be crossed but stupity

However cannot understand why Kerry are favorites for All Ireland it was only a Dublin second string and they kept us to two points. IMO Dublin have to be favourites for Sam.

Dublin are favourites. Kerry are 7/2 dubs 11/8. kilkenny are not a dirty team but they are cynical. Surprise surprise they are against 1 v 1 penalties in hurling. That means they cant use their tactic of assaulting opposing forwards and either get away scott free or concede a point from a penalty. Fouls like that should be an automatic penalty and red card. Not just for kilkenny, but for all sides.

Farmer Pudsey

Mysterypunter wrote: »

Dublin are favourites. Kerry are 7/2 dubs 11/8. kilkenny are not a dirty team but they are cynical. Surprise surprise they are against 1 v 1 penalties in hurling. That means they cant use their tactic of assaulting opposing forwards and either get away scott free or concede a point from a penalty. Fouls like that should be an automatic penalty and red card. Not just for kilkenny, but for all sides.

Not suprised there second string did very well. was suprised to hear Kerry were favourites today Dublin are rightly closeset to Sam and then Mayo

davegrohl48

Don't know how you figure Sherwood won't start in the championship? Did you follow his performance against Dublin? He was superb I thought. Also think he's a hard but fair player. He pulled off a couple of steals that were fair tackling.
I think we're eventually headed to a big clampdown on foul play but not till around 2017. This years championship based on the league will be poor.

Farmer Pudsey

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Don't know how you figure Sherwood won't start in the championship? Did you follow his performance against Dublin? He was superb I thought. Also think he's a hard but fair player. He pulled off a couple of steals that were fair tackling.
I think we're eventually headed to a big clampdown on foul play but not till around 2017. This years championship based on the league will be poor.

The reason that Sherwood is unlikey to start is because of pace, it is catching Shane Enright as well. Pace is not an issue in the league with heavy ground however with hard summer ground backs need to be very fast. his physical strength is a real bonus during the league

davegrohl48

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The reason that Sherwood is unlikey to start is because of pace, it is catching Shane Enright as well. Pace is not an issue in the league with heavy ground however with hard summer ground backs need to be very fast. his physical strength is a real bonus during the league

I dunno I reckon he'll be grand. On balance his strength n bravery make up for any pace issue. He's not fast but he's not slow either. Usually someone blessed with strength is by default not slow off the mark. Its unusual to be strong n have pace issues for anyone around his height of six foot or so.

Nash Bridges

Is there any merit in more strict post-match citings from TV evidence? In fairness to GAA ref's, both sports are very quick moving and have a large number of players. The CCCCCCCC are quick to reduce or remove suspensions, if there were more suspension for any off the ball issues missed during a match it might cut out some of the awful carry on in the youtube video above. I purposely said any off the ball stuff missed by the ref, not just the few big talking points raised on the Sunday Game which seem to get attention.

davegrohl48

Nash Bridges wrote: »

Is there any merit in more strict post-match citings from TV evidence? In fairness to GAA ref's, both sports are very quick moving and have a large number of players. The CCCCCCCC are quick to reduce or remove suspensions, if there were more suspension for any off the ball issues missed during a match it might cut out some of the awful carry on in the youtube video above. I purposely said any off the ball stuff missed by the ref, not just the few big talking points raised on the Sunday Game which seem to get attention.

Yes there is merit. But we had Mickey Harte complaining before that not all games are televised, hence it would be unfair.

mollymaloney

It might be worth reading Mick Mackey's story, [ A legend in a trouble county ] - Mickey Byrnes , ''The Rattler''-- and some more, written by or about players from past eras. If we use the word nastiness now, thuggery would be the appropriate term for much of what went on back then. The most disappointing feature of Gaelic games for me, is the antics that we would often more associate with soccer players. Falling down for no reason, feinting injury, etc. Watching post match analysis a few years ago, a forward clamped his arm down on the arm of an opponent who was trying to dispossess him and then fell, pulling his marker down with him. [ Fairly common enough practise now, even in underage hurling ]-. , being awarded a free in for ''a push''. One of the esteemed panelists commented---'' that shows his experience, he played for his free''. I think there is another word that would best describe such carry on.

---

As a Tipp supporter, I'll always defend Tommy Walsh and Jackie Tyrell. Whatever either of them might be accused of, at least they always stood up and hurled. You never saw them picking themselves of the ground, with one eye appealing to the referee.

savannahkat

davegrohl48 wrote: »

The win at all costs and foul play is usually defended strongest by those who it suits the most. If there were rule changes to make it a sport best suited to agile/skillful players there'd be a whole host of hatchet merchants n grey stony faced managers lamenting that the GAA are ruining the game. We should just sit back till its only a bunch of 14/15 stone athletes with basic skills. Not every player is in favour of win at all costs. I hate this line "Any player would have done the same". I also cant stand all the pitch devils n off pitch angels. I'm sorry but ya can't just wash yer hands of yer actions on the pitch.

A point of view generally promoted by one who follows a county who are more often in the losers than the winners enclosure..

yop

savannahkat wrote: »

A point of view generally promoted by one who follows a county who are more often in the losers than the winners enclosure..

Nothing to do with his point, understand what his point was before you embarrass yourself.

wackokid

WHO SAID THIS........................To get the chance to lead the boys out into this battle was something I was looking forward to. "I said to the boys at half time 'Ye didn't expect anything else, this is going to be a war and a battle'. I think that's what I'm most proud of with the team, that we were able to pull through in a battle.

Clue.......said by a prominent GAA football captain describing a recent match to Eoghan Cormican in the irish Examiner.

Who said anything about nastiness in the GAA?

elefant

wackokid wrote: »

WHO SAID THIS........................To get the chance to lead the boys out into this battle was something I was looking forward to. "I said to the boys at half time 'Ye didn't expect anything else, this is going to be a war and a battle'. I think that's what I'm most proud of with the team, that we were able to pull through in a battle.

Clue.......said by a prominent GAA football captain describing a recent match to Eoghan Cormican in the irish Examiner.

Who said anything about nastiness in the GAA?

I don't see the relevance at all of that anecdote?

Boom__Boom

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The reason that Sherwood is unlikey to start is because of pace, it is catching Shane Enright as well. Pace is not an issue in the league with heavy ground however with hard summer ground backs need to be very fast. his physical strength is a real bonus during the league

Doubt Fitzmaurice agrees with you re Sherwood's pace, given when Dublin brought on McManamon late on in the 2013 game, Kerry immediately brought on Sherwood to counter it as a pre-planned move.

Boom__Boom

I think it will take a serious on-field injury as a result of nastiness before things change - the thing is that with players so much fitter and stronger it is only a matter of time before someone on the field of play receives a life-changing injury as a result of dirty play.

You will then here a lot of rubbish about how it was out-of-character/untypical from the individual concerned and how he's a lovely bloke off the pitch and a load of nonsense about physicality and being a man's games from the usual suspects.

I had hoped that this year the refs in the league would start giving black cards for the following offences but these rules seem to be there for the sake of it from what I can see. As far as I'm aware a black card has never been given for either of these 2 offences in an inter-county game.

4. Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
5. Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official.

davegrohl48

Has any team even ended up down to 14 players yet because of the black card? I can't recall that there was. To remind it's the 4th one where you lose a player. The watering down of the rule with four n off n six subs took away it's impact.

smileyj1987

As posted above the only time the gaa will change is when a player gets a nasty injury from all the crap of people leaving elbows and the like in on people.
I do think the gaa need to sit down sort it out before it gets to the stage of people turning their back on the game.
I would be of be opinion any form of challenge that has the likes of an elbow driven into someone or a punch being thrown needs to be a straight red. Thang should rid the game of that crap. I love watching a good physical game but you don't want to see players have that done on them.

Turtwig

Physicality doesn't have to be removed from a sport. It just needs to be strictly monitored and disciplined. GAA players are getting bigger, stronger, faster and heavier. It's only a matter time before a serious injury happens in the public sphere. The frequency of those injuries will determined by the culture of 'tackling' and 'indiscipline' in the game. Tbh, I'm not overly concerned yet about injuries. There may end up being a few, but even if everything was perfect you'd expect the numbers to be about the same. I certainly wouldn't complain though if such an injury spurred on change. I'm more concerned about the spectacle. The game, football especially, is terrible. It's almost as bad as top tier soccer. Ultimately if things continue the way they are the growth of the game will be hampered.

bruschi

I'm not sure I get all the comments that nothing will be done until there is serious injury. There have been multiple, what I would consider, serious injuries from thuggish behaviour for years and years. There have been multiple cases been brought to the courts in the last few years. Players having jaws broken off the ball etc. Or is it only at senior intercounty that we are counting?

I know in one case in Wexford, in a pretty big football game, a player had his jaw and eye socket broken after being punched from behind, way off the ball, by a player who was either a guard or training to be one. I dont think anything ever came of that. It's unfortunate that this is not the only such incident of its kind that you would hear of.

Where I think the GAA administration need to improve, is in its disciplinary measures. Far too many players get off on technical hitches or loopholes. I'd like a system similar to the Aussie rules one, where you have a defined level of suspension for incidents, which are graded on the intent and the force. So for the likes of Connollys red card against Donegal in 2011 (which was rescinded) but he got a straight red for hitting someone, but that goes down as the same as the likes of punching someone in the face. There is no differentiation at the moment in the GAA for the level of force in the action. Pushing someone away like that is not the same as punching, and should be graded as such.

Also, there is no discouragement to appealing either. If you get sent off, and if it is as clear as day, players still appeal as they can just do it with no repercussions. I fully believe, if a player appeals, and loses, 20% or some such number should be added to the suspension. That would cut out all the rubbish appeals for no good reason other than they can appeal for the sake of it.

zombieHanalei

Blaming referee's is missing the point, they don't create that culture. The blame lies squarely with players and others who feel it acceptable to act the scumbag. I refuse to accept excuses that outsource blame, end of the day people are responsible for their own behaviour. Plenty of players choose not to get involved in that nonsense.

Imagine if the referee's did suddenly adapt a zero tolerance policy; while on the one hand some would be delighted, I don't think it can be denied that it would cause an absolute ****storm. Managers would be up in arms, players would be up in arms, there would be a considerable amount of criticism in interviews and in newspapers, and I'd be fairly confident that county boards would make it their business to do everything they can to ensure a referee they feel wronged them will never get a big game again.

And there would be a touch of soccer supporter logic amongst fans; best thing in the world when an opposition player gets the line for verbally abusing my player but an absolute joke of a harsh decision when my player is sent off for verbally abusing an opposition player.

I don't buy that it will take a serious injury for things to change. Serious injuries have already occured due to 'underhand tactics'. Brian McGuigan and Henry Shefflin come to mind when both suffered serious eye injuries in 2007 and 2004 respectively....

Unfortunately win at all costs is accepted, it's acceptable to use whatever means necessary to gain an advantage, try to wind your marker up by subjecting him to the most hurtful personal insults you can think of, give him a dig in the ribs when the referee's attentions are elsewhere, make sure to lay down a marker by hitting him hard at some stage, and if one of your teammates is involved in a scuffle join in as quickly as possible.

No interest in accepting responsibility for ones own behaviour. Look at Armagh last year, they acted the bollix for the pre match parade against Cavan last year in a bid to lay down a marker, originating from the win at all costs attitude, they wanted to get into Cavan's heads and in doing so they caused chaos. Maybe the Cavan players shouldn't have reacted but at least they took their medicine; what followed from Armagh for the rest of the year was ridiculous beyond belief; complete and utter refusal to accept they did any wrong, appeals, an embarrassing and cringeworthy media blackout, an absolute joke.

wackokid

Have to agree with the above.
Also I suggest that 'fishhooking' another player should carry a ban for life.

HIB

Reading Anthony Daly's book at the moment and it gives some insight into the culture of physicality and machismo that exists in hurling. He doesn't quite go as far as admitting pulling dirty strokes in games, but you only have to read between the lines. There's a lot of talk about getting teams sufficiently riled up before a game, being on a 'war footing' running out of the tunnel, 'timbering' the opposition etc. Picture the d'unbelievables gaa trainer sketch, and I'd say you wouldn't be too far off the mark. Small wonder then that fellas go out and belt merry hell out of each other. You can't blame Daly though. He's just trying to win. Up to the GAA to call a halt to the 'run onto the pitch and shoulder your man to the ground without a ball in sight' kind of nonsense. And to tell fellas like Tadhg Kennelly (not Kerry bashing - just picking one example!), that they're simply not welcome.

davegrohl48

The only solution to melees is to have a red card for joining a melee.
If a team tries to get around this by joining with several then the game is off, the match is awarded to opposition.
For the one on one melees it should be black card to the one who started if known. Yellow to both if both started. A player who refuses to stop in a melee should be red.
End of melees overnight almost.
Two teams going all in would be rare n they're both either awarded no points or out of the championship.

Boom__Boom

bruschi wrote: »

I'm not sure I get all the comments that nothing will be done until there is serious injury. There have been multiple, what I would consider, serious injuries from thuggish behaviour for years and years. There have been multiple cases been brought to the courts in the last few years. Players having jaws broken off the ball etc. Or is it only at senior intercounty that we are counting?

I was talking about a serious injury to a high profile player in a televised match. I just think it needs to be a high-profile embarrassment before anything will do done that causes a massive outcry ; you are right about stuff happening in lower profile games like club games.

In terms of the injury I was thinking along the lines of a lad actually losing the sight in an eye or suffering a spinal injury and ending up in a wheelchair.

What put it into my mind was the "foul" at the weekend by Wylie on Ronaldson where he threw Ronaldson against the fence.

All I could think of when I saw it was that Wylie was a damm lucky individual when he threw Ronaldson against the fence that Ronaldson didnt hit his head against a bit of concrete or metal. A bit of bad luck and Ronaldson could easily have been in a wheelchair or a come or even dead.
If players continue to act in a similar fashion it's only a matter of time before someone suffers a serious head injury.

paddy no 11

Nothing wrong with physicality but the scum bag element needs to be removed. Mouthing off red card, Diving red card. Abusing referees and officials red card. Refs should be free to give cards as they want and be backed up by the GAA. Clean the game up.

keeponhurling

wackokid wrote: »

Have to agree with the above.
Also I suggest that 'fishhooking' another player should carry a ban for life.

Paul Galvin would have you believe that fish-hooking somebody is a good way to calm down a situation !

Dirty Dingus McGee

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Blaming referee's is missing the point, they don't create that culture. The blame lies squarely with players and others who feel it acceptable to act the scumbag. I refuse to accept excuses that outsource blame, end of the day people are responsible for their own behaviour. Plenty of players choose not to get involved in that nonsense.

Imagine if the referee's did suddenly adapt a zero tolerance policy; while on the one hand some would be delighted, I don't think it can be denied that it would cause an absolute ****storm. Managers would be up in arms, players would be up in arms, there would be a considerable amount of criticism in interviews and in newspapers, and I'd be fairly confident that county boards would make it their business to do everything they can to ensure a referee they feel wronged them will never get a big game again.

And there would be a touch of soccer supporter logic amongst fans; best thing in the world when an opposition player gets the line for verbally abusing my player but an absolute joke of a harsh decision when my player is sent off for verbally abusing an opposition player.

I don't buy that it will take a serious injury for things to change. Serious injuries have already occured due to 'underhand tactics'. Brian McGuigan and Henry Shefflin come to mind when both suffered serious eye injuries in 2007 and 2004 respectively....

Unfortunately win at all costs is accepted, it's acceptable to use whatever means necessary to gain an advantage, try to wind your marker up by subjecting him to the most hurtful personal insults you can think of, give him a dig in the ribs when the referee's attentions are elsewhere, make sure to lay down a marker by hitting him hard at some stage, and if one of your teammates is involved in a scuffle join in as quickly as possible.

No interest in accepting responsibility for ones own behaviour. Look at Armagh last year, they acted the bollix for the pre match parade against Cavan last year in a bid to lay down a marker, originating from the win at all costs attitude, they wanted to get into Cavan's heads and in doing so they caused chaos. Maybe the Cavan players shouldn't have reacted but at least they took their medicine; what followed from Armagh for the rest of the year was ridiculous beyond belief; complete and utter refusal to accept they did any wrong, appeals, an embarrassing and cringeworthy media blackout, an absolute joke.

In society at large people only behave well because there are laws if there were no laws against Tax Evasion,speeding,fraud etc those laws would be broken repeatedly until something was done by the government to stop it.The same applies to sport the players will do whatever they can get away with if it helps their team as the overall aim is the win and that's all intercounty players really care about.It's extremeley naive to think otherwise and expect the players to behave well when the GAA doesn't demand it of them.

If the GAA themselves stook a zero tolerance policy and backed the referee's to crack down on this nonsense it would disappear very quickly.Changing the culture of a sport takes decades, changing disciplinary measures and backing refere's can happen instantly

Boom__Boom

Was reading the report's on some of today's action and in some shocking news, it appears that a referee has actually issued a black card for dissent.

Twas the Derry game and it was James Kielt who got it and the referee who gave it was one Ciaran Branagan.

TopOfTheRight

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Was reading the report's on some of today's action and in some shocking news, it appears that a referee has actually issued a black card for dissent.

Twas the Derry game and it was James Kielt who got it and the referee who gave it was one Ciaran Branagan.

Good to hear but I think there's a bit of a problem here that is probably not ever going to be an issue at inter county level; twice last summer I saw & heard players calling the referee every name under the sun only for the referee to take the easy way out in both cases and issuing a black card instead of a red one.


Dissent is disputing a free or obstructing the free taker, abuse is abuse and should always be a red.

Boom__Boom

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

Good to hear but I think there's a bit of a problem here that is probably not ever going to be an issue at inter county level; twice last summer I saw & heard players calling the referee every name under the sun only for the referee to take the easy way out in both cases and issuing a black card instead of a red one.


Dissent is disputing a free or obstructing the free taker, abuse is abuse and should always be a red.

Actually I think I was careless/wrong/inaccurate in my use of the word dissent for Kielt's offence.

Also I've just been looking at the current rules and I don't see anywhere where a referee can give a red card for abuse of any official. As far as I can abuse of an official has to be a black card.

However you can be sent off (red card) for dissent (which is just disagreeing with an official's decision without being abusive) if it's a second caution-able offence i.e. a 2nd yellow card.

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/Official%20Guide%202014%20Part%20II(1).pdf