How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

OldNotWIse · 02-03-2015 04:39PM

mzungu wrote: »

Thats truly sickening.

Been following this thread a good while, and at 241 pages long there has yet to be any kind of reasonable argument offered by the no side....a bit telling in itself really.

So far all I've seen is
1. Their kids will be bullied (presumably by kids of straight people)
2. They will abuse their kids (apparently this just applies to men though)
3. Other people's marriages will somehow spontaneously disintegrate if gay people are allowed to marry

...all very compelling arguments

mzungu · 02-03-2015 05:03PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

So far all I've seen is
1. Their kids will be bullied (presumably by kids of straight people)
2. They will abuse their kids (apparently this just applies to men though)
3. Other people's marriages will somehow spontaneously disintegrate if gay people are allowed to marry

...all very compelling arguments

Ah yes. The classic "it redefines marriage" argument. You know, I think Fintan O'Toole got it fairly spot on with his article last week in the Times. What the no side are really against is that they can't stand the thoughts of two men raising a child. They will just have to get used to it, that kind of outdated thinking thankfully no longer has a place in Irish society.

aloyisious · 03-03-2015 06:20PM

I would like this story to be false but as I'm not on twitter, I can't check it out. The story is in the online version of GCN..... http://ow.ly/JRNJG

OldNotWIse · 03-03-2015 06:27PM

Who pays those Iona Wackos? Other wackos?

TwoShedsJackson · 03-03-2015 06:44PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Who pays those Iona Wackos? Other wackos?

They're wacko enough to not need to be paid, their righteous ire is enough to satiate them.

Cheerios · 03-03-2015 06:48PM

I'm too young to vote but my parents will be voting yes. Quite frankly I don't understand why we even need to vote on gay rights. I mean, why are we voting on whether or not someone gets rights?

TwoShedsJackson · 03-03-2015 06:51PM

Cheerios wrote: »

I'm too young to vote but my parents will be voting yes. Quite frankly I don't understand why we even need to vote on gay rights. I mean, why are we voting on whether or not someone gets rights?

It's the process of societal change: 25 years ago in Ireland a man could not be charged with rape if the woman he raped was his wife. No divorce, no contraception, Church telling everyone how to live, until the facade fell away with the child abuse scandals.

Lt J.R. Bell · 03-03-2015 07:40PM

mzungu wrote: »

Ah yes. The classic "it redefines marriage" argument. You know, I think Fintan O'Toole got it fairly spot on with his article last week in the Times. What the no side are really against is that they can't stand the thoughts of two men raising a child. They will just have to get used to it, that kind of outdated thinking thankfully no longer has a place in Irish society.

You might think it is outdated, but let us see whether the rest of the public think that , in May.

Gay couples can and do raise children without being married, so..........

jobbridge4life · 03-03-2015 10:21PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

It's the process of societal change: 25 years ago in Ireland a man could not be charged with rape if the woman he raped was his wife. No divorce, no contraception, Church telling everyone how to live, until the facade fell away with the child abuse scandals.

God when you think about all in one like that... horrific.

Nodin · 03-03-2015 10:22PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Who pays those Iona Wackos? Other wackos?

It's believed so, but its impossible for the appropriate body to investigate their accounts and they refuse to make them available.

aloyisious · 03-03-2015 11:05PM

Nodin wrote: »

It's believed so, but its impossible for the appropriate body to investigate their accounts and they refuse to make them available.

God, how I'd like a leak or two from the Revenue

marienbad · 03-03-2015 11:29PM

Nodin wrote: »

It's believed so, but its impossible for the appropriate body to investigate their accounts and they refuse to make them available.

Why is it impossible do you know ?

Nodin · 04-03-2015 12:15AM

marienbad wrote: »

Why is it impossible do you know ?

Body doesn't have the power afaik, and they're listed as a charity. I shall take to google.

Yeah, as they're registered as a charity, they don't have to register with SIPO as a "Third party".
http://www.sipo.gov.ie/Website/en/Reports/Register-of-Third-Parties/
They've made requests (6) for details but funny enough have received none.

You might ask how they manage to pass themselves off as a charity, but it would seem the revenue accepts that they are, so they are.....

aloyisious · 04-03-2015 01:33AM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

You might think it is outdated, but let us see whether the rest of the public think that , in May.

Gay couples can and do raise children without being married, so..........

Yes, that's true but your last is no reason to deny civil marriage to partners in a same-sex relationship. In effect it say's "yes, kids can be raised by gay couples" but fail's to acknowledge that the children being raised in those families are also being denied something, the opportunity of the presence of married parents they can bond with in the family units (a relationship so reputedly highly regarded by those opposed to SSM) whilst knowing at the same time that children are being raised successfully.

The fact is that opponents to SSM are in effect declaring "we have decided that same-sex couples are not fit persons to be married to each other in civil law, that marriage is solely for opposite-sex couples, and that children being raised in same-sex parented families are to be denied the rights and bonding allowed to children in married opposite-sex parented families because we say so" all being covered by the claim that "it's in the best interests of the children".

Ironically procreation is also claimed by opponents to SSM to be a reason to deny same-sex couples access to civil marriage, a direct refusal to accept that people in same-sex relationships are as "procreation-capable" as married opposite-sex couples here.

Dingle_berry · 04-03-2015 01:58AM

aloyisious wrote: »

God, how I'd like a leak or two from the Revenue

I've no idea how true any of this is:
http://bocktherobber.com/2013/06/what-exactly-is-the-iona-institute/
So a practising psychiatrist can campaign against equality? I would hate to be gay and relying on them for care. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though. Same goes for the rich surgeon. And I was surprised to read that the profits from Dominos pizza could trickle into the coffers of Iona.

aloyisious · 04-03-2015 02:24AM

Another opinion-piece from an irish S.C (with a lot of WE's in it) ..... http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/be-courageous-and-vote-no-to-marriage-referendum-1.2123429

The leading quote "If referendum is rejected it would allow us to legally recognise same-sex unions as different to marriage" make it seem he's in "mental reservation" denial of existing Irish Law (the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010) almost as sensible as the Monty Python "Knights of Ni & shrubberies" sketch, possibly something to do with integrity.

TwoShedsJackson · 04-03-2015 08:23AM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

God when you think about all in one like that... horrific.

Indeed, and I even forgot to mention that actually being gay was illegal until 1993.

Colinoneill · 04-03-2015 09:43AM

People should be allowed marry whoever the f*** they want, a same sex couple marrying does not effect you, or your life or my life, it's just two people who want to take the next step and it's their private life so get your religion or beliefs out of their business.

I'm a straight person who dosent really care for marriage anyway. But if two people want to get married they should be able to plain and simple.

No voters have no valid argument. Oh so you think the ideal family is a man and women and their kids, great go have your ideal family and stop trying to ruin someone's life or force them to emigrate because they can't take the next step with the person they love in this country.

I'll be voting yes, not for equality or because I support gay rights or anything as active as that, but because marriage is for people who love each other, no matter race nation colour creed or sexual orientation

OldNotWIse · 04-03-2015 10:39AM

Anyone who concerns themselves with what other couples do in their own bedroom is a complete weirdo

floggg · 04-03-2015 11:03AM

aloyisious wrote: »

Another opinion-piece from an irish S.C (with a lot of WE's in it) ..... http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/be-courageous-and-vote-no-to-marriage-referendum-1.2123429

The leading quote "If referendum is rejected it would allow us to legally recognise same-sex unions as different to marriage" make it seem he's in "mental reservation" denial of existing Irish Law (the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010) almost as sensible as the Monty Python "Knights of Ni & shrubberies" sketch, possibly something to do with integrity.

That was a bunch of waffle. Not once did he offer any explanation of any of his positions - just waffle about undefined "unique" qualities.

The problem for him and his "it will change marriage, because, I'm, it will" arguments is that we have already seen marriage equality introduced in other jurisdictions and there has been precisely zero impact on existing heterosexual marriages.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-03-2015 12:00PM

Here's an intering twist one it (especially those advocating the what's-best-for-kids idea): All marriage is bad engineering.

http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.de/2015/03/dilbert-cartoonist-nuclear-family.html?m=1

Simply, marraige is fragile and when it breaks up, kids get hurt - so why do we have marriage in the first place? Why not a polyamorous tribal system that, when a relationship reaches breakdown, has far more connections and outlets that protect not only the partners but also the kids.

Are we thinking outsie the box only to find we're all trapped inside an even bigger box?

mzungu · 04-03-2015 04:26PM

floggg wrote: »

That was a bunch of waffle. Not once did he offer any explanation of any of his positions - just waffle about undefined "unique" qualities.

The problem for him and his "it will change marriage, because, I'm, it will" arguments is that we have already seen marriage equality introduced in other jurisdictions and there has been precisely zero impact on existing heterosexual marriages.

That was trotted out ad nauseam around the time of the divorce referendum too I remember. It seems when that referendum was passed, surprise surprise it didn't end up redefining marriage at all. Who would have thought it!

It's just the same old tactics used by the no side, albeit rehashed and thrown into the argument just for the sake of muddying the waters.

Cody montana · 04-03-2015 09:54PM

The Eurovision is on the same weekend, gonna be a maga gay weekend.

aloyisious · 05-03-2015 02:35AM

Cody montana wrote: »

The Eurovision is on the same weekend, gonna be a maga gay weekend.

Gonna be a lot of people glued to the goggle-box.

aloyisious · 06-03-2015 12:26PM

Canvassing starts tomorrow in Bray.

Pherekydes · 06-03-2015 12:36PM

aloyisious wrote: »

Canvassing starts tomorrow in Bray.

Should start in Merrion Square.

mylefttesticle · 07-03-2015 09:27AM

How F88king stupid that we even need a referendum for this!

More wasted money on a wasted generation of politicians!

Fact is that if you are of legal age and want to get married you should be allowed regardless of orientation, anyone having a problem with this should mind their own business.

If god has his reasons for everything as unkindly religious people like to point out then I presume like heterosexual people he created other sexual orientated people in his same image therefore they should be afforded the same rights.

Anything else is just **** on a stick!

fran17 · 07-03-2015 11:34AM

mylefttesticle wrote: »

How F88king stupid that we even need a referendum for this!

More wasted money on a wasted generation of politicians!

Fact is that if you are of legal age and want to get married you should be allowed regardless of orientation, anyone having a problem with this should mind their own business.

If god has his reasons for everything as unkindly religious people like to point out then I presume like heterosexual people he created other sexual orientated people in his same image therefore they should be afforded the same rights.

Anything else is just **** on a stick!

I agree with you on the point about this referendum not being necessary or needed.An absolute waste of tax payers money,and boy are they spending big on this one.They seem to have greases the entire media barring a few souls who have retained there credibility.Hell Morning Ireland has turned into nothing more than a propaganda machine on the matter.
Our good friends in Leinster House have put there big toes into the waters of society and concluded that this referendum is just the ticket they need to kick start the next general election campaign.Notice how they wont even murmur a word on the abortion issue,an issue where lives are literally at stake,in fear of affecting there popularity.But should we really have expected anything less?I think not.

bodice ripper · 07-03-2015 11:59PM

fran17 wrote: »

I agree with you on the point about this referendum not being necessary or needed.An absolute waste of tax payers money,and boy are they spending big on this one.They seem to have greases the entire media barring a few souls who have retained there credibility.Hell Morning Ireland has turned into nothing more than a propaganda machine on the matter.
Our good friends in Leinster House have put there big toes into the waters of society and concluded that this referendum is just the ticket they need to kick start the next general election campaign.Notice how they wont even murmur a word on the abortion issue,an issue where lives are literally at stake,in fear of affecting there popularity.But should we really have expected anything less?I think not.

Its all true fran. Just today I had dinner in a gay bar in Amsterdam, and I overheard some dudes talking about their involvement in the conspiracy to drive fran mental. It's spreading.

Mark Tapley · 08-03-2015 12:06AM

fran17 wrote: »

I agree with you on the point about this referendum not being necessary or needed.An absolute waste of tax payers money,and boy are they spending big on this one.They seem to have greases the entire media barring a few souls who have retained there credibility.Hell Morning Ireland has turned into nothing more than a propaganda machine on the matter.
Our good friends in Leinster House have put there big toes into the waters of society and concluded that this referendum is just the ticket they need to kick start the next general election campaign.Notice how they wont even murmur a word on the abortion issue,an issue where lives are literally at stake,in fear of affecting there popularity.But should we really have expected anything less?I think not.

I like the sound of Hell Morning Ireland . Is it new?

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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