Water Charges Protest.

shinzon · 07-02-2015 5:43pm

Cabaal wrote: »

Road tax?
Motor Tax has been used the same way as general taxation for a long long time now...its funded education, health etc. If part or all of it gets redirected to setup a utility company as a temp measure then thats a decision of the goverment.

Do you think the goverment didn't use tax money to setup ESB etc when they were setup by the state?

it may have been but not in the amounts being talked about here 2/3rds of the money being directly subvented to IW as well as lpt

cmon whose kidding who here

Shin

barneystinson · 07-02-2015 5:50pm

shinzon wrote: »

it may have been but not in the amounts being talked about here 2/3rds of the money being directly subvented to IW as well as lpt

cmon whose kidding who here

Shin

Do you know what subvented means? I'm not sure you do.

That money always went to local government. And local government had to provide water. That responsibility was taken away from local govt and transferred to IW. Why would the money not follow the function, especially since you've been out protesting about it being raised any other way...

Hijpo · 07-02-2015 5:54pm

Cabaal wrote: »

But didn't loads of people also claim defiance in relation to fines etc?

What happened to these big crowds of defiant people? Compliance is pretty damn high for this charge, people are either protesting or they are not...it would appear they are not and had no real intention of going against it only for keyboard warriors on the internet claiming they'd do zyx.

I'm betting the exact same thing happens with the Irish Water charges, big on words but between idiots undermining the protests by abusing our president (and being proud of it) and the charges actually coming in, the compliance with the registration is high.

Claiming the numbers are made up is kinda silly, unless you have credible evidence to show otherwise.

Define loads.

barneystinson · 07-02-2015 5:59pm

Hijpo wrote: »

Define loads.

From freedictionary.com:

10. often loads Informal A great number or amount: "There were loads of people at the parade."

Hijpo · 07-02-2015 6:11pm

barneystinson wrote: »

From freedictionary.com:

10. often loads Informal A great number or amount: "There were loads of people at the parade."

You'll have to quantify that definition regarding people who said they wouldnt care about fines, actually find some official figures from a reputable source before making that claim.

barneystinson · 07-02-2015 6:12pm

Hijpo wrote: »

You'll have to quantify that definition regarding people who said they wouldnt care about fines, actually find some official figures from a reputable source before making that claim.

I didn't make any claim?

Hijpo · 07-02-2015 6:28pm

barneystinson wrote: »

I didn't make any claim?

Were you backing up the person making the claim or just being a smart ass then??

barneystinson · 07-02-2015 6:36pm

You said:

Hijpo wrote: »

Define loads.

And I said:

barneystinson wrote: »

From freedictionary.com:

10. often loads Informal A great number or amount: "There were loads of people at the parade."

You can make of that what you will.

I do remember what I would consider a great number (of keyboard warriors anyway) foaming at the mouth and being willing to go to jail rather than pay LPT. I was in a Revenue office one day when a mob with a megaphone came in and caused the place to close, seriously inconveniencing the customers trying to get their tax affairs sorted in the public office.

Hijpo · 07-02-2015 7:03pm

barneystinson wrote: »

You said:

And I said:

You can make of that what you will.

I do remember what I would consider a great number (of keyboard warriors anyway) foaming at the mouth and being willing to go to jail rather than pay LPT. I was in a Revenue office one day when a mob with a megaphone came in and caused the place to close, seriously inconveniencing the customers trying to get their tax affairs sorted in the public office.

Smart ass it is then.

So an estimation (using RTE's crowd counting algorithm) would be that about 20 people vowed not to care about fines and jail when they came up against a tax that would be taken without consent or choice from any income they receive, which relatively negates any chances of avoiding payment which in turn reduces the chances of jail and fines to about... Eh.... Zero....

Seems like a legit comparison.

JohnC. · 07-02-2015 8:38pm

I'm pretty sure those figures don't add up to €3,700,000,000 billion (ie. 3.7 quintillion). Whoever made it should try some proofreading.

shinzon · 07-02-2015 9:02pm

yeah that was from the clondalkin says no page, they took the figures and for some reason they put double some of the amounts from where they got the figures from which was here

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/probe-how-irish-water-spending-5107349

Sometimes the anti water side don't help themselves

Shin

Finnbar01 · 08-02-2015 5:53pm

barneystinson wrote: »

Really?

Or are we borrowing the money to pay for it?

Yes really, we've been paying for it through the VAT system.

barneystinson · 08-02-2015 5:59pm

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Yes really, we've been paying for it through the VAT system.

How do you decide what "we" are paying for and what "we" are borrowing for when the country is running at billions of euro deficit..?

Finnbar01 · 08-02-2015 6:05pm

barneystinson wrote: »

How do you decide what "we" are paying for and what "we" are borrowing for when the country is running at billions of euro deficit..?

You're changing the argument.

We have been paying for water through the VAT system for years.

Yes, the government didn't investment in our water infrastructure but that's a different kettle of fish altogether.

barneystinson · 08-02-2015 6:44pm

Finnbar01 wrote: »

You're changing the argument.

We have been paying for water through the VAT system for years.

Yes, the government didn't investment in our water infrastructure but that's a different kettle of fish altogether.

I'm not changing my argument. I haven't even started arguing. I'm asking how do you decide what our taxes are paying for and what our borrowings are paying for, when we're spending billions more than we are taking in...?

Finnbar01 · 08-02-2015 6:57pm

barneystinson wrote: »

I'm not changing my argument. I haven't even started arguing. I'm asking how do you decide what our taxes are paying for and what our borrowings are paying for, when we're spending billions more than we are taking in...?

I don't get to decide on how are taxes are paid for, that's the role of the government.

For years, a certain percentage of the VAT we paid on goods and services has been going towards our water infrastructure (supposedly anyway). So this water charge is a double taxation.

barneystinson · 08-02-2015 7:06pm

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I don't get to decide on how are taxes are paid for, that's the role of the government.

For years, a certain percentage of the VAT we paid on goods and services has been going towards our water infrastructure (supposedly anyway). So this water charge is a double taxation.

How do you know that - I'm not saying you're wrong but I've never seen that in anything official.

During the recession our VAT receipts dropped - was the money that was going to pay for water in the first few billion or last few billion of VAT receipts? If it was in the first few then you'd be right. If it was the last few then you'd be wrong...

So does your source indicate which bit of our VAT receipts went to pay for water? I doubt if they do, because that's not how budgeting works, neither at national govt level nor at household level - you have your income from whatever sources, giving a total, and then you decide what you're spending it on.

robtri · 10-02-2015 7:38pm

barneystinson wrote: »

How do you know that - I'm not saying you're wrong but I've never seen that in anything official.

During the recession our VAT receipts dropped - was the money that was going to pay for water in the first few billion or last few billion of VAT receipts? If it was in the first few then you'd be right. If it was the last few then you'd be wrong...

So does your source indicate which bit of our VAT receipts went to pay for water? I doubt if they do, because that's not how budgeting works, neither at national govt level nor at household level - you have your income from whatever sources, giving a total, and then you decide what you're spending it on.

check out the third page...
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/1997/en.act.1997.0029.pdf

it clearly states where the taxes to pay for water came from and to date this has not been overturned.

it is very clearly laid out in law

"AN ACT TO ENABLE LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO ENJOY
THE REVENUES FROM DUTIES CHARGED UNDER
THE FINANCE (EXCISE DUTIES) (VEHICLES) ACT,
1952, AND FROM DUTIES AND FEES CHARGED
UNDER CERTAIN OTHER ENACTMENTS, TO REMOVE
THE POWER OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO MAKE
CHARGES FOR THE SUPPLY OF WATER FOR DOMESTIC
PURPOSES OR FOR THE DISPOSAL OF DOMESTIC
SEWAGE, TO ENABLE STEPS TO BE TAKEN FOR
THE PURPOSE OF SECURING THE PROVISION BY
LOCAL AUTHORITIES OF SERVICES IN A MORE
ECONOMICAL AND EFFICIENT MANNER, TO OTHERWISE
MAKE PROVISION IN RELATION TO LOCAL
GOVERNMENT (IN PARTICULAR FOR THE PURPOSE
OF ENSURING THAT THE REVENUES FROM DUTIES
AND FEES AFORESAID ARE APPORTIONED AMONG
LOCAL AUTHORITIES ON AN EQUITABLE AND FAIR
BASIS) AND TO PROVIDE FOR RELATED MATTERS."

barneystinson · 10-02-2015 8:33pm

robtri wrote: »

check out the third page...
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/1997/en.act.1997.0029.pdf

it clearly states where the taxes to pay for water came from and to date this has not been overturned.

it is very clearly laid out in law

"AN ACT TO ENABLE LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO ENJOY
THE REVENUES FROM DUTIES CHARGED UNDER
THE FINANCE (EXCISE DUTIES) (VEHICLES) ACT,
1952, AND FROM DUTIES AND FEES CHARGED
UNDER CERTAIN OTHER ENACTMENTS, TO REMOVE
THE POWER OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO MAKE
CHARGES FOR THE SUPPLY OF WATER FOR DOMESTIC
PURPOSES OR FOR THE DISPOSAL OF DOMESTIC
SEWAGE, TO ENABLE STEPS TO BE TAKEN FOR
THE PURPOSE OF SECURING THE PROVISION BY
LOCAL AUTHORITIES OF SERVICES IN A MORE
ECONOMICAL AND EFFICIENT MANNER, TO OTHERWISE
MAKE PROVISION IN RELATION TO LOCAL
GOVERNMENT (IN PARTICULAR FOR THE PURPOSE
OF ENSURING THAT THE REVENUES FROM DUTIES
AND FEES AFORESAID ARE APPORTIONED AMONG
LOCAL AUTHORITIES ON AN EQUITABLE AND FAIR
BASIS) AND TO PROVIDE FOR RELATED MATTERS."

Thanks Rob, no mention of VAT there.

robtri · 10-02-2015 8:41pm

barneystinson wrote: »

Thanks Rob, no mention of VAT there.

no VAT
Motor Tax and Excise Duties to protect our water supply for the future

volku · 01-03-2015 10:40pm

First of all we should ask what is the quality of water we are asked to pay for?
Then is the water safe to drink and for washing?
What can be done to have safe water?
We should demand the truth from water supplying councils, doctors, scientifics, reserchers, and Irsh Water.
Why most of us are getting the red marks on faces,
why our skin is getting dry and itchy after every bath or shower?
why our stomachs are upset?
why we get headaches?
why are ther so many phetous discharges and babies are born sick?
allergies, ADHD symptoms, autistic, cancers, etc

There is at least one answer
OUR MAINS WATER IS CHEMICALLY CONTAMINATED and it is NOT only THM s

our food is also contaminated (flour may contain up to 1% of chlorine, used as bleach)
but we are over 60% built from water

I have my rainwater harvested since August 2014.
We use mineral water Tipperary for drinking, cooking, etc.
Rainwater is used for washing, washing machines and toilets.
It is filtered with 5 micron filter plus UV lamp.
You cannot imagine how soft and nice in touch it is.
Unexpectly last January 2015 was pretty dry and my tank 3000litres lasts only 2 weeks with no rain. We were backed to mains water (like in swimming-pools)
my and my wife's skin got dry, my little son (4 y.o.) got spots on his face etc.
Same effects as many other people's faces. and you are told it is psioriasis,, eczema or some genetic sh*t. It is not
Google "chlorinated water and health" or "fluorinated water and health"
Do not ever drink tap water!!!
to save my rainwater I use the mains water for flushing the toilets and washing my car ONLY.
MAINS WATER IS A CHEMICALLY POISONED.
and now we are also asked to pay for it...

If there is any interest I will add links to many articles also from WHO (World Health Organisation, WHO confirms the chlorined and fluorined water is responsible for many phetael and infants and adults defects and disabilities, but also insists it is best water saanitisation way on the other hand ?!!!! ) and other research organisations which oppose the chemically contaminated water.

barneystinson · 01-03-2015 10:59pm

volku wrote: »

First of all we should ask what is the quality of water we are asked to pay for?
Then is the water safe to drink and for washing?
What can be done to have safe water?
We should demand the truth from water supplying councils, doctors, scientifics, reserchers, and Irsh Water.
Why most of us are getting the red marks on faces,
why our skin is getting dry and itchy after every bath or shower?
why our stomachs are upset?
why we get headaches?
why are ther so many phetous discharges and babies are born sick?
allergies, ADHD symptoms, autistic, cancers, etc

There is at least one answer
OUR MAINS WATER IS CHEMICALLY CONTAMINATED and it is NOT only THM s

our food is also contaminated (flour may contain up to 1% of chlorine, used as bleach)
but we are over 60% built from water

I have my rainwater harvested since August 2014.
We use mineral water Tipperary for drinking, cooking, etc.
Rainwater is used for washing, washing machines and toilets.
It is filtered with 5 micron filter plus UV lamp.
You cannot imagine how soft and nice in touch it is.
Unexpectly last January 2015 was pretty dry and my tank 3000litres lasts only 2 weeks with no rain. We were backed to mains water (like in swimming-pools)
my and my wife's skin got dry, my little son (4 y.o.) got spots on his face etc.
Same effects as many other people's faces. and you are told it is psioriasis,, eczema or some genetic sh*t. It is not
Google "chlorinated water and health" or "fluorinated water and health"
Do not ever drink tap water!!!
to save my rainwater I use the mains water for flushing the toilets and washing my car ONLY.
MAINS WATER IS A CHEMICALLY POISONED.
and now we are also asked to pay for it...

If there is any interest I will add links to many articles also from WHO (World Health Organisation, WHO confirms the chlorined and fluorined water is responsible for many phetael and infants and adults defects and disabilities, but also insists it is best water saanitisation way on the other hand ?!!!! ) and other research organisations which oppose the chemically contaminated water.

Conspiracy theory forum is that way butty
>>>>>>>>
:rolleyes:

volku · 01-03-2015 11:06pm

this is mine and my family experience after 6 months usage of rainwater and being forced to use mains water for a week after dry January 2015
we have see loads of people due our work every day and we see the skin condition they suffer.

Reason is SIMPLE
Polluted water by human beings.

volku · 01-03-2015 11:12pm

just for few litres of water a day of biollogically (no viruses, bacteria or cysts) "clean" water, another 100 of litres have to be contaminated as well?

What is the impact of these additives to enviroment?
Why these chemicals should be more generous on human cells than on baacteria or cysts' ones?

volku · 01-03-2015 11:29pm

GOOGLE:
water strong taste of chlorine Limerick

and the respond after numbers of negliences earlier was:

Engineer Mark Collins insisted however that standards were exceeded in Newcastle West and Abbeyfeale.

“People will be paying for water from now on and the expectation will be that it will be high quality drinking water,” Cllr John Sheahan said. “It’s like any service, broadband or electricity. You won’t pay if you are only getting half a service.”

barneystinson · 01-03-2015 11:39pm

3 posts in a row, are you just having a conversation with yourself?!

I think all that rainwater has you half cracked..!

Also, what has all this spoof got to do with the anti-IW protests?!

Finnbar01 · 02-03-2015 2:04am

barneystinson wrote: »

Thanks Rob, no mention of VAT there.

So you agree, we all ready pay for our water?

volku · 02-03-2015 2:19am

I am ready to pay once I am convinced it is safe to drink and wash
at the moment it is chemical sewer in area I live

I have tried in Wicklow Mountaines in Enniskerry
and must say it is absolutely great there

barneystinson · 02-03-2015 9:33am

Finnbar01 wrote: »

So you agree, we all ready pay for our water?

Nope. "We" borrow billions of Euro every year because our tax revenues aren't enough to cover all our expenditure, so no, until the budget is balanced we don't pay fully for water, roads, hospitals, or anything.

Taxburden carrier · 02-03-2015 9:45am

barneystinson wrote: »

Nope. "We" borrow billions of Euro every year because our tax revenues aren't enough to cover all our expenditure, so no, until the budget is balanced we don't pay fully for water, roads, hospitals, or anything.

Maybe we need to have a closer look at our expenditure.

Water Charges Protest.

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