Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

Rayne Wooney · 27-02-2015 02:09PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

The @ManUtd twitter account has asked fans to predict tomorrow's starting 11.

Its almost like they're trolling us.

................Herrera.............
Valencia Smalling Rojo Young
..................Blind....................
...........Rooney Falcao........
.................Januzaj.............
...........Fellaini Di Maria..........

I find picking the maddest team you can think of is normally close enough to the mark give or take one or two

TheDoc · 27-02-2015 02:10PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

The @ManUtd twitter account has asked fans to predict tomorrow's starting 11.

Its almost like they're trolling us.

I was clsoe for the Swansea game, McNair starting caught me out.

TheDoc · 27-02-2015 02:13PM

adox wrote: »

No points for a draw is a ridiculous idea.

I see getting a point for them just as ridiculous. I wasn't advocating any solutions, and I didn't want to de-rail the thread into a talking shop for fixing the game, just a pet hate of mine.

That it also provides some form of "achievement" for managers to "set out for a point" is a joke as well.

Gun to my head I'd probably say if level after 90 minutes, straight into penalties until a winner is found. Stop this false prophecy that a point is a good result for anyone.

TheDoc · 27-02-2015 02:19PM

De Gea, Valencia, Jones, Rojo, Shaw, Blind, Herrera, Di Maria, Mata, Rooney, Falcao.

Have a feeling that Young might be in for Shaw though. Think he might go with Mata in 10, hasn't featured for a good while now with no real reason. Fellaini at 10 has brought some bad press. Might come on to replace if we are chasing or if we are comfortable.

Would totally understand if Di Maria was dropped for Januzaj also.

27-02-2015 02:23PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

................Herrera.............
Valencia Smalling Rojo Young
..................Blind....................
...........Rooney Falcao........
.................Januzaj.............
...........Fellaini Di Maria..........

I find picking the maddest team you can think of is normally close enough to the mark give or take one or two

De Gea should be upfront alongside fellaini

kona · 27-02-2015 02:24PM

3-1 united tomorrow I reckon.

TheDoc · 27-02-2015 02:29PM

kona wrote: »

3-1 united tomorrow I reckon.

A good smashing would go nicely to relieving a lot of tension with fans. Sunderland are a terrible team, with a terrible manager, that shouldn't have a sniff tomorrow.

Not really into hearing about "how anything can happen in football" for this weekends tie, this needs to be a convincing win to put confidence back in the team and us, ahead of a crucial run of fixtures.

Falcao could also do with not looking like someone who won a competition on a back of a cereal box...

bangkok · 27-02-2015 02:30PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I see getting a point for them just as ridiculous. I wasn't advocating any solutions, and I didn't want to de-rail the thread into a talking shop for fixing the game, just a pet hate of mine.

That it also provides some form of "achievement" for managers to "set out for a point" is a joke as well.

Gun to my head I'd probably say if level after 90 minutes, straight into penalties until a winner is found. Stop this false prophecy that a point is a good result for anyone.

a point would be a good result for us away to Chelsea

The Moldy Gowl · 27-02-2015 02:31PM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

De Gea should be upfront alongside fellaini

De gea on corners?

Strikers on goal kicks?

bucketybuck · 27-02-2015 02:34PM

TheDoc wrote: »

That it also provides some form of "achievement" for managers to "set out for a point" is a joke as well.

In fairness, that is actually an achievable target in situations where the quality of the two teams involved is unequal.

Take away one point for a draw and the implication is that both teams will have to go for a win. But there are so many games where one side is of a far higher quality than the other, if the game is open and both sides try to attack then the higher quality side will easily win the vast majority of matches.

If Burnley can't play for a draw against Chelsea, if they have to go out and try for a win, then they will lose every time.

Parking the bus/playing for a draw is often the only way for a smaller team to achieve something from a game. Take that away, take away the vast number of times a big team dropped points to a smaller team and you will quickly have a division with several distinct tiers within it, based on the actual quality of the squads. That might be an accurate table, but it certainly won't be an exciting one.

Rayne Wooney · 27-02-2015 02:34PM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

De Gea should be upfront alongside fellaini

His touch can't be any worse than Rooney's was the last game

Mitch Connor · 27-02-2015 02:37PM

United will be looking for a new head of Youth Development - McClair has been appointed to a similar role for Scotland, to start after this season is over.

bucketybuck · 27-02-2015 02:39PM

TheDoc wrote: »

A good smashing would go nicely to relieving a lot of tension with fans. Sunderland are a terrible team, with a terrible manager, that shouldn't have a sniff tomorrow.

Not really into hearing about "how anything can happen in football" for this weekends tie, this needs to be a convincing win to put confidence back in the team and us, ahead of a crucial run of fixtures.

I fully expect us to easily beat Sunderland.

Of course, if our performance follows our form and we struggle or even lose, I also fully expect the resulting criticism to be appropriate to that expectation.

Bandana boy · 27-02-2015 02:49PM

TheDoc wrote: »

A good smashing would go nicely to relieving a lot of tension with fans. Sunderland are a terrible team, with a terrible manager, that shouldn't have a sniff tomorrow.

They are not that bad and dont get smashed too often.
They would of course be in real trouble with your zero points for a draw rule as they must have the highest amount of draws in the league.

If your Utd expect a team lining up for 0-0 and set up accordingly

keane2097 · 27-02-2015 02:56PM

A spirited rearguard action by an underdog trying to squeeze a draw is one of the few ways in which soccer is ever entertaining. Taking that away would be criminal.

27-02-2015 02:58PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I see getting a point for them just as ridiculous. I wasn't advocating any solutions, and I didn't want to de-rail the thread into a talking shop for fixing the game, just a pet hate of mine.

That it also provides some form of "achievement" for managers to "set out for a point" is a joke as well.

Gun to my head I'd probably say if level after 90 minutes, straight into penalties until a winner is found. Stop this false prophecy that a point is a good result for anyone.

Doc, have to say that I like your posting, your style and find myself agreeing with you more often than not. However, I have to disagree with your thinking on 'draws', and especially with the part in bold above. I get where you are coming from with a point being fúck all use to United, we need 3s all the way at the moment, but I think there are definitely teams which it benefits - namely the lower clubs. In any relegation battle where teams find themselves hemorrhaging losses, any point is a good result.

Just look at the bottom of the league now and tell me that a point to QPR this weekend would not be a good result, at home to Spurs. A point to them this weekend, depending on other results around them of course, could keep them from dropping into the relegation zone.

Actually, let's assume for a second that QPR will lose this game, which they could very likely do. They on 22 points have gained no points from this game. Villa, also on 22 points, are playing away to Newcastle this weekend. IMO they are more likely to get something out of their game than QPR. In this case, one point for Villa would be a positive result and would lift them over QPR and possibly out of the relegation zone. Either way, a point would be a good result for either Villa or QPR, and another 4-5 teams around the relegation zone this weekend.

I just think that rather than lament the fact that 1 point for a draw exists in the game, which it has done for a long time, I'd lament the fact that United currently seem incapable of getting better than a draw in most away games, which hasn't been the way for a long time. 1 point is shíte to United, until we miss out on Top 4 by a point. A point would have come in very handy at the end of the 2011/12 season when we lost the league on goal difference.

Sorry Doc, I know this is long, but coming in here today I didn't expect to see a very sensible poster propose getting rid of the '1 point for a draw' system. A point not being a good result for anyone - I highly disagree with that.

Vic Vinegar · 27-02-2015 03:12PM

Remember when it was only 2 points for a win?

I don't, if it was kept on however, we would have won the league instead of Blackburn in 94/95.

Pointless fact there for you!

bmcc10 · 27-02-2015 03:19PM

What am I even reading the last few pages? Car crash in here.

The Moldy Gowl · 27-02-2015 03:22PM

bmcc10 wrote: »

What am I even reading the last few pages? Car crash in here.

Oh heaven forbid we go slightly off topic of the usual doom and spoofer talk.

MythicalMadMan · 27-02-2015 03:23PM

Out of our 8 draws we had two 0-0s, one where we lost the lead and 5 where we came from behind.
I agree that draws are gash but the battling spirit seems to be coming back.
Last season more of our draws came from winning positions.

v3ttel · 27-02-2015 03:51PM

I got tickets for the FA Cup game against Arsenal in the ballot. It looked like all the other games for the rest of the season are sold out on the official website. I was thinking I wouldn't get over again this season.

It could be a big night in terms of taking a major step towards our only realistic chance of a trophy this season.

Ed The Equalizer · 27-02-2015 04:02PM

RobertKK wrote: »

In the least games lost, United are 3rd best.
Of the current top 7 we have most draws with 8.

Drawing too many games is the real problem United have.

3 losses turned into draws in the last minute - we'd normally expect to be turning draws into wins

kona · 27-02-2015 04:29PM

TheDoc wrote: »

A good smashing would go nicely to relieving a lot of tension with fans. Sunderland are a terrible team, with a terrible manager, that shouldn't have a sniff tomorrow.

Not really into hearing about "how anything can happen in football" for this weekends tie, this needs to be a convincing win to put confidence back in the team and us, ahead of a crucial run of fixtures.

Falcao could also do with not looking like someone who won a competition on a back of a cereal box...

United need to go straight for the throat from ko, bang in a early goal and keep the pressure on. Sunderland will crack.

Kirby · 27-02-2015 05:02PM

stankratz wrote: »

Just look at the bottom of the league now and tell me that a point to QPR this weekend would not be a good result, at home to Spurs. A point to them this weekend, depending on other results around them of course, could keep them from dropping into the relegation zone.

Yes but QPR's relegation chances are not my concern, nor should they be. If I was a rulemaker my job is not to cater to the top clubs or the middle clubs or the bottom clubs. My job is too make the game better. And I see merit in what TheDoc is saying.

If I had my way, I would like to trial zero points for a 0-0 draw. A score draw remains worth a point as both teams demonstrated they are willing to attack.

Some people, misguided as they may be, see this as anti-defending or not appreciating the art of defending which is a massive part of the game or only wanting champagne football. This is not the case and rendering a 0-0 worth no points does not devalue defending. It devalues teams set up with 11 men behind the ball which is a common occurrence.

Removing points for all draws, I agree would be a mistake. You can have a 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 etc game where both teams defend and attack and just cant be separated on the day. This should not be punished or discouraged. But how many 0-0 games can you think of that were worth watching? Not many. A scoreless draw where both teams have a proper go is a rare thing.

Nalz · 27-02-2015 05:04PM

Tomorrow will be 1-1 or 2-1 to Utd

MythicalMadMan · 27-02-2015 05:16PM

Solved it no points for win lose or draws league decided by the amount of goals scored.

Teams level at the end of a season, play a number of different challenges over a day, cross bar, scoring from corners no other players, penalties.

It'd be great craic

27-02-2015 05:18PM

Ok, for something on topic...

1) The fact that some of us are nervy about a home game v this Sunderland team is a sign of the current times, times which are not welcome or acceptable.

2) Finishing outside the Top 4 this season, with this squad, and with our rivals dropping silly points too, is unacceptable. 3rd was in our own hands (sorta) 2 weeks ago, now we're hoping to scrape 4th.

I'm still very much with LVG, but things need to start happening soon. I'm not looking for mountains to be moved, but if we are looking to get Top 4 we are certainly going the hard way about it.

3) I for one don't see it as a disaster that all of our rivals are knocked out of Europe. I think the effect that the mid-week Europe game has on teams is often overstated. By that logic, Arsenal and Spurs should drop points this weekend and the Liverpool/City game will be a snore-fest? I'm not denying that it has some tangible effect, I just think it is overstated. I do not see all of our rivals dropping out of Europe just as detrimentally as other United fans apparently do. Liverpool got knocked out of the Europa Cup last night, something they were itching to win, and some of the reaction in here would suggest United were just dealt a crushing blow to their Top 4 chances - not at all. If we don't get Top 4 this season, it'll be solely because we fúcked it up ourselves, not because Liverpool and Spurs failed to get to the advanced stages of the Europa League.

Maximus Alexander · 27-02-2015 05:33PM

Trilla wrote: »

Tomorrow will be 1-1 or 2-1 to Utd

I'd say you're on the money there.

27-02-2015 05:38PM

Kirby wrote: »

Yes but QPR's relegation chances are not my concern, nor should they be. If I was a rulemaker my job is not to cater to the top clubs or the middle clubs or the bottom clubs. My job is too make the game better. And I see merit in what TheDoc is saying.

I'm sorry, but it kind of is your job if you're the rulemaker. You are supposed to look at it from the point-of-view of all teams, not just "These are my rules and if you don't like them good luck to ya". There would be endless consultation with the players/managers/referees associations required if such a thing were to happen. No one man would decide it, let alone officially propose it. Saying that it would "make the game better" is highly subjective.

If I had my way, I would like to trial zero points for a 0-0 draw. A score draw remains worth a point as both teams demonstrated they are willing to attack.

Some people, misguided as they may be, see this as anti-defending or not appreciating the art of defending which is a massive part of the game or only wanting champagne football. This is not the case and rendering a 0-0 worth no points does not devalue defending. It devalues teams set up with 11 men behind the ball which is a common occurrence.

Removing points for all draws, I agree would be a mistake. You can have a 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 etc game where both teams defend and attack and just cant be separated on the day. This should not be punished or discouraged. But how many 0-0 games can you think of that were worth watching? Not many. A scoreless draw where both teams have a proper go is a rare thing.

Just because I disagree with your overall point doesn't mean I disagree with some of your reasoning. It would be lovely to impose some kind of rule which negates "park the bus" style playing, but lovely for me as a United fan whose team doesn't have to resort to that often, if barely at all.

There are teams who rely on this tactic for a large percentage of their playing minutes for survival in the league, and just saying "Right if it's 0-0 you get no points" won't change that overnight, or over the course of a few months. If these teams who park the bus often could play without having to do that, I imagine they would be doing it already without the need for a radical change to the rules of the game.

Overall, I just think it's a bit mad to see this suggested in here. If The Doc was just roughly commenting on draws and his ideal plan for them, that's fine, but if it was spurned by frustration at the amount of draws United are getting, I think there are other things to blame rather than the decades-old league rules.

Maximus Alexander · 27-02-2015 05:43PM

stankratz wrote: »

There are teams who rely on this tactic for a large percentage of their playing minutes for survival in the league, and just saying "Right if it's 0-0 you get no points" won't change that overnight, or over the course of a few months. If these teams who park the bus often could play without having to do that, I imagine they would be doing it already without the need for a radical change to the rules of the game.

The other side of that is that perhaps there are teams in the league below who would aren't as good at playing for the draw and would benefit from the change. Adapt or die, there'll be 20 teams in the top division regardless, they just might be different ones playing a more entertaining brand of football.

Not that I'm saying I'd agree with the change, but I can see the logic and I don't think this is a great argument against it.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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