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Penalty Points

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  • 14-02-2015 12:14pm
    #1
    Techno_Toaster
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭


    Hi my brother got 3 penalty points for speeding.  He isn't notifying his insurance company as he said because it's a first offence there is no need to.  I myself am insured with Liberty and am wondering if it happened to me would I have to notify you straight away or is it only at renewal time?  I'm just looking for your policy on penalty points.  Thanks


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    #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Techno_Toaster wrote: »
    Hi my brother got 3 penalty points for speeding.  He isn't notifying his insurance company as he said because it's a first offence there is no need to.  I myself am insured with Liberty and am wondering if it happened to me would I have to notify you straight away or is it only at renewal time?  I'm just looking for your policy on penalty points.  Thanks

    I think you will find that all insurance companies require you to notify them of changes such as penalty points or convictions etc. If you don't and you make a claim, you could find yourself in difficulty.


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    #3
    Techno_Toaster
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭Techno_Toaster


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Techno_Toaster wrote: »
    Hi my brother got 3 penalty points for speeding.  He isn't notifying his insurance company as he said because it's a first offence there is no need to.  I myself am insured with Liberty and am wondering if it happened to me would I have to notify you straight away or is it only at renewal time?  I'm just looking for your policy on penalty points.  Thanks

    I think you will find that all insurance companies require you to notify them of changes such as penalty points or convictions etc. If you don't and you make a claim, you could find yourself in difficulty.
    That's what I would have thought but I googled it and found this thread which also seems to have conflicting advice.  http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72015759 

    Some people seem to say you need to notify on next renewal and others straight away.  I guess I'm just looking for Liberty's policy specifically.


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    #4
    Liberty Insurance: Una
    Company Representative Posts: 163 Verified rep ✭Liberty Insurance: Una


    Hi Techno_Toaster,

    Can you please PM your details and a suitable time for someone to call in relation to your query.

    Cathy
    Techno_Toaster wrote: »
    Hi my brother got 3 penalty points for speeding.  He isn't notifying his insurance company as he said because it's a first offence there is no need to.  I myself am insured with Liberty and am wondering if it happened to me would I have to notify you straight away or is it only at renewal time?  I'm just looking for your policy on penalty points.  Thanks


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    #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Is there not a straight forward policy that states you have to declare penalty points at the time they are incurred or at the next renewal date?
    I would think it's a simple enough question to answer.


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    #6
    Techno_Toaster
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭Techno_Toaster


    Liberty Insurance: Una wrote: »
    Hi Techno_Toaster,

    Can you please PM your details and a suitable time for someone to call in relation to your query.

    Cathy
    Techno_Toaster wrote: »
    Hi my brother got 3 penalty points for speeding.  He isn't notifying his insurance company as he said because it's a first offence there is no need to.  I myself am insured with Liberty and am wondering if it happened to me would I have to notify you straight away or is it only at renewal time?  I'm just looking for your policy on penalty points.  Thanks
    Hi Una,

    Many thanks for your response however, I'm not looking for a callback.  As I said I don't have any points myself and was just wondering what your policy was on it.  As Derekeire put it, just a straight forward policy if one exists.  I had a look on your website and also through my own policy and couldn't see anything and the thread I linked to before was the closest I got but again it had conflicting information.  

    My question is if I got caught speeding tomorrow and down the line got 3 penalty points do I need to notify you straight away or at renewal?

    Many Thanks:)


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    #7
    Avien
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Avien


    If you read the policy conditions it's pretty straight forward, tell them when it happens

    page 7 
    .libertyinsurance.ie/documents/policydocs/motor_policy_roi.pdf

    You must tell us immediately if: 
    a you plan to make changes to the vehicle that improves its value, performance or attractiveness to thieves; 
    b you want to use the vehicle for any use not included in your certificate of insurance; 
    c you change the address at which you normally keep the vehicle; 
    d you or anyone covered by this policy are charged or convicted of a motoring offence; 
    e you become aware of any medical or physical condition of any driver that may affect their ability to drive; 
    f you or any driver change occupation; or 
    g there are changes to any other material fact. 
    This is not a full list and you should tell us about any change if you are not sure whether it may affect your policy. When you tell us about a change, we may then reassess your premium and your cover. If you do not tell us about any relevant changes, we may:
     i. reject or reduce your claim; or 
    ii. cancel the policy and treat it as though it has never existed.


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    #8
    Techno_Toaster
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭Techno_Toaster


    Avien wrote: »
    If you read the policy conditions it's pretty straight forward, tell them when it happens

    page 7 
    .libertyinsurance.ie/documents/policydocs/motor_policy_roi.pdf

    You must tell us immediately if: 
    a you plan to make changes to the vehicle that improves its value, performance or attractiveness to thieves; 
    b you want to use the vehicle for any use not included in your certificate of insurance; 
    c you change the address at which you normally keep the vehicle; 
    d you or anyone covered by this policy are charged or convicted of a motoring offence; 
    e you become aware of any medical or physical condition of any driver that may affect their ability to drive; 
    f you or any driver change occupation; or 
    g there are changes to any other material fact. 
    This is not a full list and you should tell us about any change if you are not sure whether it may affect your policy. When you tell us about a change, we may then reassess your premium and your cover. If you do not tell us about any relevant changes, we may:
     i. reject or reduce your claim; or 
    ii. cancel the policy and treat it as though it has never existed.



    Thank Aiven. As stated before I'm looking for a policy specific to penalty points and not just a general one. Still waiting on Liberty to respond.....


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    #9
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Techno_Toaster wrote: »
    Thank Aiven. As stated before I'm looking for a policy specific to penalty points and not just a general one. Still waiting on Liberty to respond.....

    I'd say section d in what you quoted covera it


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    #10
    Avien
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Avien


    Techno_Toaster wrote: »
    Thank Aiven. As stated before I'm looking for a policy specific to penalty points and not just a general one. Still waiting on Liberty to respond.....

    Section d covers motoring offences and penalty points are issued for motoring offences, therefore section d applies to penalty points. Also section g would also cover it as penalty points would be a material fact which you disclosed upon inception.

    rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf


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    #11
    Techno_Toaster
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭Techno_Toaster


    Avien wrote: »
    Section d covers motoring offences and penalty points are issued for motoring offences, therefore section d applies to penalty points. Also section g would also cover it as penalty points would be a material fact which you disclosed upon inception.

    rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf


    Thanks again for the above I'd still like to hear a representative of Liberty tell me what their policy is. I'd imagine if it was as straight forward as they above they would have responded by now and pointed me to the above.

    I realise I'm probabily coming across as annoying and if that is the case I do apologise, as I've said from the start I just want a basic answer.


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    #12
    Avien
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Avien


    Techno_Toaster wrote: »
    Avien wrote: »
    Section d covers motoring offences and penalty points are issued for motoring offences, therefore section d applies to penalty points. Also section g would also cover it as penalty points would be a material fact which you disclosed upon inception.

    rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf


    Thanks again for the above I'd still like to hear a representative of Liberty tell me what their policy is.  I'd imagine if it was as straight forward as they above they would have responded by now and pointed me to the above.

    I realise I'm probabily coming across as annoying and if that is the case I do apologise, as I've said from the start I just want a basic answer.
    I appreciate what you want. The policy is the basis of the contract with the insurance company and every interaction between them and you is bound by the policy. They could have as many internal processes and policies as they like, but ultimately any dispute comes down to the policy terms and conditions. 

    I work in insurance and while I'm not a representative for Liberty, the policy conditions I quoted from Liberty's booklet are in our booklet nearly word for word so I can confidently say that the parts I pointed to relate to the penalty point issue you have. 

    I don't know why a Liberty Rep haven't just come back and said this, but I wouldn't try using "well I asked on your boards forum and nobody answered my question" as a defence for not disclosing penalty points.  Plus they have the catch all "This is not a full list and you should tell us about any change if you are not sure whether it may affect your policy."

    You risk policy cancellation and having your claims declined if you don't, depending on the severity of the non-disclosure.


    I'll leave you to it and hopefully a Liberty Rep will actually answer your question, but if not, see above.


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    #13
    Liberty Insurance: Una
    Company Representative Posts: 163 Verified rep ✭Liberty Insurance: Una


    Techno_Toaster wrote: »
    Avien wrote: »
    Section d covers motoring offences and penalty points are issued for motoring offences, therefore section d applies to penalty points. Also section g would also cover it as penalty points would be a material fact which you disclosed upon inception.

    rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf


    Thanks again for the above I'd still like to hear a representative of Liberty tell me what their policy is.  I'd imagine if it was as straight forward as they above they would have responded by now and pointed me to the above.

    I realise I'm probabily coming across as annoying and if that is the case I do apologise, as I've said from the start I just want a basic answer.
    Hi Techno_Toaster
    Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
    In relation to your query regarding penalty points there is an absolute duty to disclose all material facts at quotation and renewal. This duty continues throughout the period of insurance.
    A material fact is any fact which would influence an insurer in accepting or declining a risk or in fixing the premium or terms and conditions of the contract and must be disclosed by a proposer/insured.
    Any mid-term disclosure of material fact may incur an additional premium.
    Una


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    #14
    Techno_Toaster
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭Techno_Toaster


    Avien wrote: »
    I appreciate what you want. The policy is the basis of the contract with the insurance company and every interaction between them and you is bound by the policy. They could have as many internal processes and policies as they like, but ultimately any dispute comes down to the policy terms and conditions. 

    I work in insurance and while I'm not a representative for Liberty, the policy conditions I quoted from Liberty's booklet are in our booklet nearly word for word so I can confidently say that the parts I pointed to relate to the penalty point issue you have. 

    I don't know why a Liberty Rep haven't just come back and said this, but I wouldn't try using "well I asked on your boards forum and nobody answered my question" as a defence for not disclosing penalty points.  Plus they have the catch all "This is not a full list and you should tell us about any change if you are not sure whether it may affect your policy."

    You risk policy cancellation and having your claims declined if you don't, depending on the severity of the non-disclosure.


    I'll leave you to it and hopefully a Liberty Rep will actually answer your question, but if not, see above.

    Thanks again Avien for your response. As I said I don't have points myself but I know from speaking to friends/work colleagues about my brothers situation they seem to be in agreement with him in that it can wait until renewal.

    I'd hope it would never happen to me as I am quite good when it comes to speed limits but I just wondered if it did!


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    #15
    Techno_Toaster
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭Techno_Toaster


    Liberty Insurance: Una wrote: »
    Hi Techno_Toaster
    Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
    In relation to your query regarding penalty points there is an absolute duty to disclose all material facts at quotation and renewal. This duty continues throughout the period of insurance.
    A material fact is any fact which would influence an insurer in accepting or declining a risk or in fixing the premium or terms and conditions of the contract and must be disclosed by a proposer/insured.
    Any mid-term disclosure of material fact may incur an additional premium.
    Una

    Thanks Una I appriciate you getting back to me! You can close this now if you wish


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