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Apple Data Centre Athenry = Middle of Nowhere.

  • 23-02-2015 4:09pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ClovenHoof


    Miles from the 'commuter' rail station by contrast the Danish twin facility is beside the train station.

    Ireland...


«13456

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Their facility in Cork is also without reliable public transport. Also see IBM in Damastown.

    Our policy is, you can build wherever you like, no regard for the subsequent pressure on infrastructure. Anything for a few jobs/votes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Surely Apple picked the spot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Surely Apple picked the spot.

    picking a spot doesn't = planning permission.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    Miles from the 'commuter' rail station by contrast the Danish twin facility is beside the train station.

    Ireland...


    The key issues for this site are going to be the following:
    • Grid Connection
    • Multiple independent fibre connections
    • Large site

    Not like there's going to be large amount people commuting to it anyways, total staff numbers will be on the order of 100, given it operates as a 24x7 facility you probably looking at 20-30 staff working per shift.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭FobleAsNuck


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    Ireland...

    sure, just give them a call if you think you can outsmart their planners


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    To put it in perspective this planned Data Center is something like three times the size of Microsoft custom built data center in Grange Castle in West Dublin. This was first Azure (microsoft cloud service) dc outside of continental US. It's probably currently one of the biggest DC's in Ireland, not sure if the new Google one is bigger.

    http://www.digitalsignage.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/02.MicrosoftDublinDataCentreAerialView1.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭Bogger77


    Seriously?
    Why should this facility be built near a train station?

    All it needs is access to the fiber backbones, decent capacity electric network and a connection to the road network.

    It's going to have a few security staff on site, and a couple of tech heads once it's built, with a cleaning team calling once a day. 3 or 4 teams of 5 on a rolling shift cycle is all that'll be working onsite. There won't even be a reception desk.

    Athenry was chosen, as there's multiple fiber links passing the site, from the reports, access to public transport would never be a consideration, and I'm sure the people in Athenry would love a massive industrial building going up in the town center, near the train station.


  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Subpopulus


    Comparing this facility to Apple's Cork building isn't really appropriate. Apple came to Cork in 1980 when they were still a smallish company - they only had 20 people at the start and were only a small part of the IDA's industrial estate. As they got bigger they continually expanded, to the point where it doesn't make financial sense to move. It's not as if someone just decided to put a couple of thousand jobs on top of the hill without any thought for public transport.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    It's completely inappropriate, a Data Center has hardly any staff, it's basically a giant warehouse full of servers. If anything they probably use a containerized format, in which case a 40 foot container arrives off the boat from the US already full populated with servers/cabling and all the NOC guys have to do is:

    1. Hook up the power
    2. Hook up the networking
    3. Hook up cooling

    After that they'll basically just responding to alerts and replacing faulty parts (dead disks, faults on disk controllers etc.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    dubhthach wrote: »
    After that they'll basically just responding to alerts and replacing faulty parts (dead disks, faults on disk controllers etc.)

    And if they're anything like Microsoft, they won't even do that. MS let servers and server parts die until a percentage of the container is useless and then they replace it. There is no manual work at all once it's been commissioned.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭Arciphel


    I hear they are building it there cos all the wet weather shur tis a perfect spot for the oul cloud computin.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    dubhthach wrote: »
    To put it in perspective this planned Data Center is something like three times the size of Microsoft custom built data center in Grange Castle in West Dublin. This was first Azure (microsoft cloud service) dc outside of continental US. It's probably currently one of the biggest DC's in Ireland, not sure if the new Google one is bigger.

    http://www.digitalsignage.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/02.MicrosoftDublinDataCentreAerialView1.jpg
    Do you mind me asking what all the white objects on the roof are? Power/cooling? Or is that pic mid construction?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Stheno wrote: »
    Do you mind me asking what all the white objects on the roof are? Power/cooling? Or is that pic mid construction?
    Air conditioning. Data centres produce vast amounts of heat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    Apple Data Centre Athenry = Middle of Nowhere.

    Wind farm on site. Right next to high voltage sub-station, gas transmission pipline, motorways (M6, M17, M18) and railway. The land is practically free.

    http://www.itoworld.com/map/106?lon=-8.83124&lat=53.31048&zoom=12&fullscreen=true

    However, I suspect they're being sold a pup on motorway access and I think they could do better on commuting.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Victor wrote: »
    Air conditioning. Data centres produce vast amounts of heat.

    Thanks, I've worked in two, or rather the office space in two, not the datacentre itself, and both had huge amounts of plant (power probably) beside the datacentre, never knew where the aircon went in


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Does anyone know exactly where the site is? The news reports only place it at Derrydonnell at a Coillte site. One hopes that the IDA didn't promote the State interest in flogging land to pay the bondholders over the best placement for the building.

    The disused rail line to Tuam, which notionally could be used to deliver containers of equipment to the site, runs about 1.5km west of the village but the satellite overhead seems to indicate wooded areas being predominantly east of the village. Between the cost of reconnecting the junction and building a spur it's likely out of the question to see that happen. Apple aren't huge on sustainable development anyway, whatever about their boasts of green power usage, as their new Cupertino headquarters spreads way more out than up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Want to back up the comments supporting this placement as intentional by Apple - in my experience companies WANT their data centres to be in the middle of nowhere. This is a perfect location - not to far from an urban development, access to plenty of renewable energy, and fairly close to a main transport route.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Does anyone know exactly where the site is?

    I suspect it is here: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,545312,726899,4,0 - in the photo you can see they have started to clear the trees. The scar on the land to the northeast is the gas pipeline form the Corrib Gas Field: http://www.gasnetworks.ie/en-IE/About-Us/Our-network/Pipeline-Map/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,486 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Victor wrote: »
    I suspect it is here: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,545312,726899,4,0 - in the photo you can see they have started to clear the tress.
    That aerial photography was taken in 2005. That's one serious crystal ball they have at their disposal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Stheno wrote: »
    Do you mind me asking what all the white objects on the roof are? Power/cooling? Or is that pic mid construction?

    cooling most likely - you'll see a bit @ 4:00 mins in :




    Google used sea-water to cool their one in Finland





    id'd be nice if they could horse the heat into the local 50m swimming pool or a bit of district-heating

    .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    gctest50 wrote: »
    cooling most likely - you'll see a bit @ 4:00 mins in :




    Google used sea-water to cool their one in Finland





    id'd be nice if they could horse the heat into the local 50m swimming pool or a bit of district-heating

    .

    You should check out the Facebook Lulea DC too, entirely powered by local renewables, which Apple could easily do in Galway imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    MJohnston wrote: »
    You should check out the Facebook Lulea DC too, entirely powered by local renewables, which Apple could easily do in Galway imo.

    there's an app for that ....:o
    Apple's plan to build a massive data centre powered entirely by renewable energy in the west of Ireland has been attacked by anti-wind campaigners.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/apples-data-centre-plan-sparks-antiwind-protest-31016512.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Victor wrote: »
    I suspect it is here: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,545312,726899,4,0 - in the photo you can see they have started to clear the tress. The scar on the land to the northeast is the gas pipeline form the Corrib Gas Field: http://www.gasnetworks.ie/en-IE/About-Us/Our-network/Pipeline-Map/

    That scar also marks path of Dark Fibre that is owned by "Aurora Telecom" eg. the Telecom branch of Bord Gáis. They put in Ducting along the route, same process was repeated up to Rossport in Mayo as well. There's also ducting in both carriageways of the M6 which is supposed to have had dark fibre blown through it as part of "Project Pipiper"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Victor wrote: »
    However, I suspect they're being sold a pup on motorway access and I think they could do better on commuting.

    It's about five minutes from Athenry and the M6 junction, doesn't get too much better than that in Galway.
    Victor wrote: »
    I suspect it is here: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,545312,726899,4,0 - in the photo you can see they have started to clear the tress.

    You should see the (more up to date) bing maps images, the clearance is more pronounced.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    To be honest motorway access for employee's is a red herring, there's probably gonna be at tops 25 people on site at any time once it's operational. The key thing is ease to access to the ducts that are in hards houlder of the motorway and through which dark fibre can be laid. The new M18 will add extra ducting through which dark fibre can be laid.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Schadenfreudia


    Arciphel wrote: »
    I hear they are building it there cos all the wet weather shur tis a perfect spot for the oul cloud computin.

    They are building in Athenry and Denmark because of the temperate climate and many other factors.

    I doubt the wet weather has anything to do with it nor do I imagine anyone involved ever used terms like "shoneen" or "shur tis" or "a perfect spot for the oul cloud computin" :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Schadenfreudia


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    Miles from the 'commuter' rail station by contrast the Danish twin facility is beside the train station.

    Ireland...

    There is a train station in Athenry - check http://www.irishrail.ie/travel-information/athenry

    You think they need a dedicated "Apple Station" for the 50 or so employees when the place is up and running?

    Bizarre.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard



    I doubt the wet weather has anything to do with it nor do I imagine anyone involved ever used terms like "shoneen" or "shur tis" or "a perfect spot for the oul cloud computin" :rolleyes:

    I think it was simply a joke about wet weather and clouds....nothing more :|


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭coffeepls


    Ok - not meaning to put an oul spanner in the thinking here, but I remember when I was a sociology student in Maynooth (over 15 years ago), that a similar question was asked about the location of Intel. Why did Intel pick Leixlip? The area was not crying out for a major employer half as much as some areas on the Northside, and there was just as much accessible land elsewhere. I don't remember the Northside area in specific, but I believe at the time it was probably nearer Finglas.

    Eitherways, I do remember (don't quiz me though, this is stuff I heard over 15 years ago) that the main reason (according to a sociology lecturer) was to do with social classes. The area on the Northside was generally working class, and would be much more union orientated, and the area of Leixlip was generally middle class and not union orientated. Make of that what you will - because Intel has been there a long time now.
    So. Apple for Athenry.... hmmm


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,402 ✭✭✭plodder


    coffeepls wrote: »
    Ok - not meaning to put an oul spanner in the thinking here, but I remember when I was a sociology student in Maynooth (over 15 years ago), that a similar question was asked about the location of Intel. Why did Intel pick Leixlip? The area was not crying out for a major employer half as much as some areas on the Northside, and there was just as much accessible land elsewhere. I don't remember the Northside area in specific, but I believe at the time it was probably nearer Finglas.

    Eitherways, I do remember (don't quiz me though, this is stuff I heard over 15 years ago) that the main reason (according to a sociology lecturer) was to do with social classes. The area on the Northside was generally working class, and would be much more union orientated, and the area of Leixlip was generally middle class and not union orientated. Make of that what you will - because Intel has been there a long time now.
    So. Apple for Athenry.... hmmm
    I doubt that was a major factor. Water supply was probably one of the biggest ones, as (silicon) chip plants use an awful lot ot it, and one of the main treatment plants for Dublin is in Leixlip. Also, being close to the M4 given that over 5,000 people commute to and from the place. If I'm not mistaken Intel paid a lot of money towards building the M4 interchange near the plant. This is great news for Athenry by the way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    I doubt the wet weather has anything to do with it

    The climate has a lot to do with it, lower ambient temperatures mean less cooling required. It's also worth noting that we don't tend to get the extremes seen in most of Europe (extended periods of extreme cold during winter, long periods of heat during the summer).

    Hopefully this development will mean more bandwidth being opened up to Galway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    plodder wrote: »
    I doubt that was a major factor. Water supply was probably one of the biggest ones, as (silicon) chip plants use an awful lot ot it, and one of the main treatment plants for Dublin is in Leixlip. Also, being close to the M4 given that over 5,000 people commute to and from the place. If I'm not mistaken Intel paid a lot of money towards building the M4 interchange near the plant. This is great news for Athenry by the way.
    A bit off-topic, but Intel handles it's own water, certainly it's own waste water and if I'm correct also it's own fresh water.

    The M4 (1994) wasn't built for several years after Intel opened (1990), and even then, junction 6 didn't open until 2003.

    Having a suitably sized site wwould have been a factor, although I understand they even want to expand what they have.
    antoobrien wrote: »
    Hopefully this development will mean more bandwidth being opened up to Galway.
    Unlikely. The problem in small towns and rural Ireland is the last few kilometres to individual homes and businesses, not the large capacity 'mains'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,402 ✭✭✭plodder


    Victor wrote: »
    A bit off-topic, but Intel handles it's own water, certainly it's own waste water and if I'm correct also it's own fresh water.
    It still has to dispose of waste water after it's treated, and there is a convenient river at the back of the plant. It also has to obtain fresh water from somewhere too. I could be wrong but, given the volumes and quality required, I'd say it has to come from the public system. They do have treatment of incoming water, but that could be for increasing the purity levels.
    The M4 (1994) wasn't built for several years after Intel opened (1990), and even then, junction 6 didn't open until 2003.
    True, but it was being planned.

    I think the overall point though is that infrastructure (and water in particular) is more likely to be what determines where a plant like this goes rather than social (class) factors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    They are building in Athenry and Denmark because of the temperate climate and many other factors.

    I doubt the wet weather has anything to do with it nor do I imagine anyone involved ever used terms like "shoneen" or "shur tis" or "a perfect spot for the oul cloud computin" :rolleyes:

    I use the term seoinín all the time and I'll be in two separate Data Centers in West Dublin tomorrow ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,777 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    It's a perfect spot for their requirements.
    They'd hardly decided to put the DC in a place that wasn't suitable?

    Biggest issue now may be around planning specifically in relation to the method they are going to power it with.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    kippy wrote: »
    Biggest issue now may be around planning specifically in relation to the method they are going to power it with.

    Eh Electricity? All this guff about renewable is more around the fact that they'll book a certain amount of wind capacity but it's probably just gonna have a standard grid connection (though perhaps with couple wind turbines on sight to keep the hippies happy)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,777 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Eh Electricity? All this guff about renewable is more around the fact that they'll book a certain amount of wind capacity but it's probably just gonna have a standard grid connection (though perhaps with couple wind turbines on sight to keep the hippies happy)

    Ah yeah, I know apply haven't invented a new powering method called itricity etc yet but there will be significant power required for the plant itself, backup power, cooling systems etc etc and as you say they will probably need a few turbines etc
    Again, the devil would be in the detail, perhaps it would be straightforward.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    Subpopulus wrote: »
    Comparing this facility to Apple's Cork building isn't really appropriate. Apple came to Cork in 1980 when they were still a smallish company - they only had 20 people at the start and were only a small part of the IDA's industrial estate. As they got bigger they continually expanded, to the point where it doesn't make financial sense to move. It's not as if someone just decided to put a couple of thousand jobs on top of the hill without any thought for public transport.

    You'd swear it was out in the countryside or something. It's on the north side of the city. There's a bus stop right outside it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Deagol


    You'd swear it was out in the countryside or something. It's on the north side of the city. There's a bus stop right outside it.

    Ah but sure it wasn't built in Dublin and therefore it's in the sticks in certain peoples minds :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,767 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Eh Electricity? All this guff about renewable is more around the fact that they'll book a certain amount of wind capacity but it's probably just gonna have a standard grid connection (though perhaps with couple wind turbines on sight to keep the hippies happy)

    For a modest data centre you're going to need about 10MW of electrical power - this is equivalent to a small town. This power is required for cooling and electrical power. I would suspect something on this scale a lot more. I'm sure they've done the home work with Airtricty / ESB to ensure that this can be provided through the existing electricity network and plant - some data centres take 110kv or 38kv and step this down for use. It's a huge energy demand. No matter how much you try to "green" it up, they use huge resources in their operation.

    Ireland has many advantages for data centres - because of temperate climates, 'free cooling' is an option as is using water from local rivers, lakes etc instead of having to cool chilled water of refrigerant. So some of the electricity demand could be offset this way.

    Assuming it's Tier I / II (minimum), i.e. maximum resilience you're talking a lot of electrical power that needs to be backed up in a downtime situation - 10 minutes resilience is good at the moment, then a power source (usually a diesel powered UPS) to kick in and keep it going until the grid problem can be solved. It's massive stand by power demand - big battery racks, dedicated UPS's and lots of storage of diesel to power them.

    Some data centres could be self sufficient indefinitely once they can keep diesel going to them. Wind power will not be sufficient to power a large data centre - it's not available on demand (bummer if you have a power outage on a calm day) and certainly not the mission critical element, perhaps some of the non-essential services. They could explore other options such as a dedicated plant working on bio-mass / CHP as a primary source.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23 fcio


    Having been in plenty of datacenter and having a job where I had to do everything from building own hardware to developing the systems to run on these servers... ... middle of nowhere is exactly where you would want your datacenter.

    Your main considerations are:
    1. Cheap electricity (I assume Apple managed to get some sort of a deal with 1-2 providers who would love to say "Apple are our customer")

    2. Redundant electricity connections into the center (no details on this infrastructure) tho plenty of power lines in the area

    3. Cheap and good redundant connectivity, I presume Apple have managed to hash out agreements for use of whatever providers have fiber nearby

    4. Cooling (ties in with 1) since servers produce a ****ton of heat

    5. Cheap land to build warehouses on for the server racks (i seen old industrial buildings being converted)

    There wont be many people working there despite of the hoopla, most of the work is far from "high tech" along the lines of "rack a heavy server here" or "repleace broken drive/memory/network card there", it is fairly low brow work involving quite alot of heavy lifting in a noisy and hot environment. Type of work that was highly automated up to date as is thru better hardware design etc


    Aside all that my personal opinion (after an initial excitement being from the area)
    I am jealous that Apple have the know how and connections to launder north of 60 billion euro thru' Ireland onto Bermuda and now find themselves in a "pickle" where they have to show something for their money flows in order to deflect any inquiries into their financial shenanigans

    I would love to open a datacenter in Galway, with plenty of cheap commercial space available but
    1. Electricity is expensive and I aint Apple or have their name to be able to hash out good deals
    2. Bandwidth for mere commoners is expensive
    3. Simply do not have the large capital required for even the smallest of datacenters
    4. Cheaper to get started collocating in Netherlands as I have done and grow from there

    So yeh its nice to be Apple, and its a positive development tho' they aint doing it for altruistic reasons and probably got free land and other concessions from the State which offers no support for indigenous small companies and continues to offer sweeties to large corporations.

    edit: In order to prevent attacks from Apple fanboys (the worst kind of fanboys :D) like I already said it is a positive development for the area, you are free to ignore the more cynical/experienced part of my argument


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    coffeepls wrote: »
    Ok - not meaning to put an oul spanner in the thinking here, but I remember when I was a sociology student in Maynooth (over 15 years ago), that a similar question was asked about the location of Intel. Why did Intel pick Leixlip? The area was not crying out for a major employer half as much as some areas on the Northside, and there was just as much accessible land elsewhere. I don't remember the Northside area in specific, but I believe at the time it was probably nearer Finglas.

    Eitherways, I do remember (don't quiz me though, this is stuff I heard over 15 years ago) that the main reason (according to a sociology lecturer) was to do with social classes. The area on the Northside was generally working class, and would be much more union orientated, and the area of Leixlip was generally middle class and not union orientated. Make of that what you will - because Intel has been there a long time now.
    So. Apple for Athenry.... hmmm

    Nope. There were two main reasons for locating in Leixlip. First was that there were only two or three places in the country that had the required power redundancy. The other two were near Shannon and Cork iirc. The second reason was that Leixlip was at the sweetspot of a 40-minute commute east into Dublin, and 40 minutes west into various midlands towns. This ensured that there would be a pool of qualified employees within a reasonable commute in all directions.

    Nothing to do with Finglas, unions, or working class / middle class issues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    The Apple press release is here: https://www.apple.com/ie/pr/library/2015/02/23Apple-to-Invest-1-7-Billion-in-New-European-Data-Centres.html

    In the Danish case, excess heat is to be exported to a district heating system.
    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    Ireland has many advantages for data centres - because of temperate climates, 'free cooling' is an option as is using water from local rivers, lakes etc instead of having to cool chilled water of refrigerant.
    Heat pollution usually means this is usually only possible with estuaries or open sea. The ability of water to hold dissolved oxygen drops sharply as water temperature increases.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,767 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Victor wrote: »
    The Apple press release is here: https://www.apple.com/ie/pr/library/2015/02/23Apple-to-Invest-1-7-Billion-in-New-European-Data-Centres.html

    In the Danish case, excess heat is to be exported to a district heating system.Heat pollution usually means this is usually only possible with estuaries or open sea. The ability of water to hold dissolved oxygen drops sharply as water temperature increases.

    Free cooling is normally sufficient here - I think Microsoft managed their entire data centre without the requirement for chillers.

    Agreed on the water - generally large bodies required. And excess heat can be sold / packaged for all sorts of uses - not sure if this is being considered given apples relative remoteness.

    Common enough to use lake / sea water in Nordic counties and some in the U.S. and Canada as well. Used for years to cool water for other industries including nuclear power plants.

    Other efficient ways considered (but not used yet afaik here) include hybrid dry coolers. The days of plugging a data centre into the grid and not worrying about much else are gone - worked years ago with less power hungry and less intense data centres, but the race in data centres now is to maximise PUE (power usage efficiency).

    Its trying to balance the simple equation of less in (electrical power) versus more out (cooling)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    For a modest data centre you're going to need about 10MW of electrical power

    Assuming it's Tier I / II (minimum), i.e. maximum resilience you're talking a lot of electrical power that needs to be backed up in a downtime situation - 10 minutes resilience is good at the moment, then a power source (usually a diesel powered UPS) to kick in and keep it going until the grid problem can be solved. It's massive stand by power demand - big battery racks, dedicated UPS's and lots of storage of diesel to power them.

    Some data centres could be self sufficient indefinitely once they can keep diesel going to them.....

    You could use natural gas as well -

    ~10MW 610-litre natural gas cat



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,767 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    gctest50 wrote: »
    You could use natural gas as well -

    ~10MW 610-litre natural gas cat


    That's a beast ok - Haven't come across these but ideal for providing power and plenty of it.

    natural has I suppose could be used as a resilient fuel Source - so grid power goes flick to gas.

    Diesel can be stored and protected - natural gas can be cut off / disrupted so wouldn't be suitable as a reliable fuel source for back up. So you've still got to provide reliable back up power.

    I'm not sure of the uptime institute (www.uptimeinstitute.com) factor natural gas into data centre classifications.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    I had a look around fab12 in Intel fadó. The one thing that sticks with me was the battery backup, it was a rack of truck lead-acid batteries, or maybe bigger maybe 3' long, 6 or 7 rows high, the entire length of one side of the fab so maybe 50 yards

    This was to power the fab until the diesel generators kicked in after something like 5 seconds( could have ben anywhere in the 3-9 second range.)


    The site at Derrydonnell is served by the 220kV line from Tynagh and further from the 400kV line from Moneypoint to Dublin. This line taps into Galway city
    Also you've the 110kV line from Shanonbridge to Galway

    So you've a 4 way redundant conection to the grid.

    There's also the pso levy for Tynagh runing out soon, so Tynagh probably want a steady customer to take up some of their capacity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    a lovely little Toshiba genny maybe ? 30 years - no refuelling

    http://www.toshiba.co.jp/nuclearenergy/english/business/4s/features.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭xper


    Those speculating on the infrastructural considerations of this planned data centre in Athenry may take note that Apple's large data centre opened about three years ago in North Carolina accompanied by three dedicated power farms with a total generating capacity that exceeds the data centre's current requirements. Now two of those plants are solar which is obviously not a runner in Co. Galway but the third, interestingly, is a 10MW fuel cell farm that uses biogas. Is there a reliable source of biogas available in Ireland? They could use natural gas from the nearby Corrib pipeline but that wouldn't tick the renewable box.

    Anyway, don't underestimate the willingness of this company, with its ridiculous amounts of cash on hand (much of which cannot be repatriated back to the USA due to *cough* tax implications) and a penchant for absolute control and secrecy over its operations to ignore the conventional and adopt new approaches, whether it be new port connections on its laptops or building new facilities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The waste heat would power a mighty cannabis grow house.


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