Go safe vans - revenue raiser or life saver

Yiikes · 14-02-2015 04:45PM

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I know recently they have become a plague around cork city, convieniently they are often located in spots where it is 50km/hr and you are coming downhill towards them. I might also add this is often about 3-4am in the morning................ Very few accidents in these spots at that time of the morning.

Motor tax office :mad: They were clever at first by putting one where the local garage parked their white van but now everyone knows about it now. Look is it there. If not speed up again. Tougher is getting a fair bombardment of them now. Good thing checkpoints remain a thing for the countryside still.

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

I decided to drive the 100kmh N8 between Cashel and Thurles for a few weeks last year. Now, many don't know but that national road, despite being almost as wide as the motorway beside, had it's limit reduced to 80 kmh..
People regularly blitzed down the motorway at 160 kmh and rarely was there a speed trap set up. If there was, the "public protectors" deliberately ignored the vantage points built for them along the motorway and parked behind the embankments of the flyovers.
Or worse, parked on the on-ramps, forcing merging traffic to avoid them so they could catch someone going past (despite the fact that if you're awake, you can spot their roofs from the road :rolleyes: )

If you dont slow down approaching these on the road you deserve to get caught. Pass it, quick look in the left mirror and speed up again. The pro step is to learn to recognise the unmarked cars although they rarely pull anyone for speeding near me.

Venus In Furs · 14-02-2015 05:26PM

If only there was some sort of way of avoiding this money racket.

Yiikes · 14-02-2015 05:44PM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

If only there was some sort of way of avoiding this money racket.

Radar dectector

Shep_Dog · 14-02-2015 06:57PM

EazyD wrote: »

I'd agree, however there are so many other factors being blindly ignored that you can understand the cynicism.

Cynicism or cognitive distortion?

Peopke who break laws always give themselves excuses that allow them to carry on without feeling bad about it.

EazyD · 14-02-2015 07:23PM

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Cynicism or cognitive distortion?

Peopke who break laws always give themselves excuses that allow them to carry on without feeling bad about it.

Well for the record I've zero points/fines myself so I've no axe to grind in that sense. I just don't think the way they are currently operated is an effective solution to reducing road deaths.

The_Valeyard · 14-02-2015 07:35PM

Easy to spot lately. With the flashing orange lights on he roof of the vans

Grab All Association · 14-02-2015 07:41PM

There's a village in Tipperary with the wrong speed signs displayed since 2009. Reported to the council nothing done about it. It should say 50km but says 80km.

Gardai hide up a lane just past these signs with a speed camera

Pure almost criminal revenue raiser

Shep_Dog · 14-02-2015 08:00PM

EazyD wrote: »

Well for the record I've zero points/fines myself so I've no axe to grind in that sense. I just don't think the way they are currently operated is an effective solution to reducing road deaths.

I'd agree with you.

The fines are ineffective as a deterrent and, the points too few to be effective and the chances of being caught are slim to none due to there not being enough traps. Add to that the advertising and predictability of locations and one can wonder if the government is serious about putting potential child killers off the road. It's obvious from the the amount of speeding one sees every day, that people are not deterred.

The advantage of using speed traps to catch such people is that it's easier and cheaper to prosecute on a fact that someone was going at speed 'x' when the limit was 'y' than to convince a judge and jury that a particular overtaking manouvre was unsafe.

Speed is sometimes a cause and frequently a factor in serious accidents.

Let's reform the system so that a mandatory court appearance is required, and link the sanctions to the percentage by which the limit was exceeded? Say: if a 20% over the limit, that should be a 3-month ban?

twinytwo · 14-02-2015 08:07PM

Leanna Prickly Maiden wrote: »

Like them or loathe them it is neither revenue collection nor life saving. It is enforcing the law.

Unless these vans are manned by guards they arent legally entiteled to enforce jack ****e.

Its a money spin plain and simple and naturally you have way to disprove the offence

get done 80euro, insurance goes up and thus the 5% gov levy = more money.

Nothing in this country is done to save lives just raise money

Renegade Mechanic · 14-02-2015 08:23PM

Shep_Dog wrote: »

**potential child killers**

No. Just no.

IsaacWunder · 14-02-2015 08:29PM

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Then its a fairly crap racket as it runs at a loss.

How do you know that?

The Go Safe consortium, who operate the cameras, is more secretive than the Vatican.

It is an unlimited company registered in the Isle of Man. Nobody knows what they make, but I would bet my life they are not making a loss if they're going to that extent to hide their accounts from the public they are tax farming.

It's wrong that a company outside the state is enforcing the law. It's as if they are above it. It's all far too secretive.

Aka Ishur · 15-02-2015 02:35AM

IsaacWunder wrote: »

How do you know that?

The Go Safe consortium, who operate the cameras, is more secretive than the Vatican.

It is an unlimited company registered in the Isle of Man. Nobody knows what they make, but I would bet my life they are not making a loss if they're going to that extent to hide their accounts from the public they are tax farming.

It's wrong that a company outside the state is enforcing the law. It's as if they are above it. It's all far too secretive.

Their accounts are not secret, up to 2013 they add made approx €3.2million. They need €10.6m to break even. I don't any newer figures than that. Remember they are paid a fixed rate €80m for the length of the contract. All fines go to the RSA so its their costs that determine the profit,, not the amount of fines they give out. Also the GoSafe is run by a limited company here in Ireland called Road Safer Ireland Ltd or something similar, the name escapes me.

oppenheimer1 · 15-02-2015 03:27AM

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

I have always thought that the drop in road deaths was due to fewer cars on the road due to the recession.
The roads not chock full just before dawn and just after dusk surely must have had some impact.
Also not as much "pleasure" driving at the weekends.
I'd imagine if the economy takes off again we will see a sharp rise in road deaths.

True, and in 2012/3 we had an exceptionally cold winter. A lot of people stayed off the roads and fatalities fell sharply.

Bongalongherb · 15-02-2015 03:42AM

All I hear is Speed Ad nauseam. Tailgating is worse. For instance...

There I was driving at 9:30pm on the back-roads from finglas to swords at the correct speed limit and this nutball drives right up behind me too close for comfort with his beams blasting in, tailgating, way too close almost bumper to bumper so I ignored him and then he tried to over-take me without indicating and swerved back behind me tailgating right up my ass.

He finally managed to overtake me and blasted up the road. Three minutes later I saw him stuck behind a truck up ahead of me tailgating the truck. All that dangerous driving just to save a few seconds and the guy didn't save any-time because he was still stuck as I caught up with him. Made me laugh.

PS: Yes it's a revenue raiser.

Shep_Dog · 15-02-2015 06:51AM

Bongalongherb wrote: »

All I hear is Speed Ad nauseam. Tailgating is worse. For instance...

Speed is a major contributory factor in the cause and outcome of all collisions. The message is repeated because offenders are in denial about this.

When not tailgating, these guys are speeding. If we had enough speed traps and effective penalties, the tailgaters would now be taking the train.

bpmurray · 15-02-2015 09:26AM

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Speed is a major contributory factor in the cause and outcome of all collisions. The message is repeated because offenders are in denial about this.

When not tailgating, these guys are speeding. If we had enough speed traps and effective penalties, the tailgaters would now be taking the train.

Actually, AFAIK dangerous overtaking is, and has been for a number of years, the number one cause of accidents involving personal injuries (from RSA annual reports). The issue with speeding is that if you're going faster, the personal injury becomes worse. So the reality is that addressing the root cause would presumably reduce injuries & deaths to a much greater degree than these vans.

IsaacWunder · 15-02-2015 10:15AM

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Their accounts are not secret, up to 2013 they add made approx €3.2million. They need €10.6m to break even. I don't any newer figures than that. Remember they are paid a fixed rate €80m for the length of the contract. All fines go to the RSA so its their costs that determine the profit,, not the amount of fines they give out. Also the GoSafe is run by a limited company here in Ireland called Road Safer Ireland Ltd or something similar, the name escapes me.

You don't have any newer figures because they have since reincorporated in the Isle of Man. The formula they are using (unlimited company incorporated in a country that isn't even in the EU) prevents the public knowing what's really happening with their accounts. Sure, they still have subsidiaries in Ireland, but the real action happens in Douglas.

And it's not unusual that they took a loss early on: Go Safe, like any new business, would have had to cover massive costs at the start, only to reap the rewards later. Being incorporated in the Isle of Man may also help reduce their tax bill: the OECD, US National Bureau of Economic Research and the Financial Secrecy Index all list the Isle of Man as a tax haven.

I find it telling that you didn't bother to refute my point about the inequity of a company incorporated outside the state enforcing the law here. Personally I don't have a problem with any business maximising their profits, but this form of PPP (where law enforcement is involved) needs to be transparent from top to bottom and must be held to higher standards.

orlyice · 15-02-2015 11:12AM

There was a story doing the rounds a while back, really hope it's true and not a local myth, heard it from a few people who live in the area, shur we'll say it's true

There was a go safe van parked in tullamore on a stretch of road that is notoriously difficult to keep within the speed limit (on the road towards birr, close to the entrance of charleville castle).

So the van was parked there one evening and 2 young lads managed to sneak up on the van, remove its number plates, attached them to their own vehicle and drove up and down the road past the van doing excessive speed, before putting the number plates back.

Those people should never have to buy their own pints again!

flazio · 15-02-2015 11:19AM

I see a lot of moaning about them but no credible suggestions as to how to make roads safer that doesn't include stereotyping drivers.

cournioni · 15-02-2015 11:53AM

flazio wrote: »

I see a lot of moaning about them but no credible suggestions as to how to make roads safer that doesn't include stereotyping drivers.

Build safer roads?

Shep_Dog · 15-02-2015 12:04PM

bpmurray wrote: »

Actually, AFAIK dangerous overtaking is, and has been for a number of years, the number one cause of accidents involving personal injuries (from RSA annual reports). The issue with speeding is that if you're going faster, the personal injury becomes worse. So the reality is that addressing the root cause would presumably reduce injuries & deaths to a much greater degree than these vans.

Dangerous overtakers usually speed when they're not tailgating a law-abiding driver. It's easier to convict someone of speeding than have a protracted court argument over whether or not an maouvre was dangerous. So, convict the speeders, and you'll get the dangerous overtakers too.

Aka Ishur · 15-02-2015 12:07PM

IsaacWunder wrote: »

You don't have any newer figures because they have since reincorporated in the Isle of Man. The formula they are using (unlimited company incorporated in a country that isn't even in the EU) prevents the public knowing what's really happening with their accounts. Sure, they still have subsidiaries in Ireland, but the real action happens in Douglas.

And it's not unusual that they took a loss early on: Go Safe, like any new business, would have had to cover massive costs at the start, only to reap the rewards later. Being incorporated in the Isle of Man may also help reduce their tax bill: the OECD, US National Bureau of Economic Research and the Financial Secrecy Index all list the Isle of Man as a tax haven.

I find it telling that you didn't bother to refute my point about the inequity of a company incorporated outside the state enforcing the law here. Personally I don't have a problem with any business maximising their profits, but this form of PPP (where law enforcement is involved) needs to be transparent from top to bottom and must be held to higher standards.

More likely reason is that the 2014 results won't be reported until June or July. . It will be a very close run thing for them because they only have a year or so left on the contract. I believe all rely on the contract being renewed. If it does go safe will be making a bit of money, if not it barely breaks even.

I didn't refute your point about the inequity etc because I would agree for the most part. I just don't think your point is relevant in this case as according to the companies registry, Road Safety Operations Ltd is an active company that has posted it's annual returns September last.

Cantona's Collars · 15-02-2015 12:33PM

Go Safe vans park regularly near me,call me cynical as it's not an accident blackspot but it's on a stretch where the limit drops from 60kph to 50kph.A goldmine for them.Safety doesn't come into it.

mountai · 15-02-2015 12:58PM

a van was parked at different "farmers gates" along the road

When I questioned the driver of one such Van as to why he was blocking access to my field, he promptly packed up and has not been seen since. I also queried another driver who parked in the car park of a local business, he also moved along. In both instances , I considered them to be parked "Illegally" , so I would definitely question the "Legality" of any Van that flashed me. BTW I normally observe speed limits, just dislike BB spying on me.

IsaacWunder · 15-02-2015 01:33PM

Aka Ishur wrote: »

More likely reason is that the 2014 results won't be reported until June or July. . It will be a very close run thing for them because they only have a year or so left on the contract. I believe all rely on the contract being renewed. If it does go safe will be making a bit of money, if not it barely breaks even.

I didn't refute your point about the inequity etc because I would agree for the most part. I just don't think your point is relevant in this case as according to the companies registry, Road Safety Operations Ltd is an active company that has posted it's annual returns September last.

Now, now, Aka, I'm sure you understand how holding companies work. According to the the companies register Apple and Google are based here, but you don't need to talk to a tax lawyer to figure out the operations are controlled form the United States. They, like any other companies that have employees and vehicles registered here, are required to have a company registered in the state.

The Go Safe consortium's parent company was registered here, but has since been moved offshore. A Manx flag of convenience, if you will. Like any other limited company, their Irish registered operations have every interest to keep their profits to the absolute minimum in order to minimise their tax liability.

I don't have a problem with companies doing this in general. Dunnes Stores, for example, are masters of it: no one knows what their profits are due to an unlimited private company owning a huge number of limited subsidiaries that appear to be barely profitable. Unlike Dunnes, Go Safe earns all its money from the taxpayer, and therefore it should be subject to a higher standard of disclosure.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 15-02-2015 02:50PM

twinytwo wrote: »

Unless these vans are manned by guards they arent legally entiteled to enforce jack ****e.

Its a money spin plain and simple and naturally you have way to disprove the offence

get done 80euro, insurance goes up and thus the 5% gov levy = more money.

Nothing in this country is done to save lives just raise money

I'm no fan of these vans but let's at least be accurate. Yes they can enforce the law. Traffic wardens do, as do litter wardens, dog wardens and others who are not Guards.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 15-02-2015 02:54PM

orlyice wrote: »

There was a story doing the rounds a while back, really hope it's true and not a local myth, heard it from a few people who live in the area, shur we'll say it's true

There was a go safe van parked in tullamore on a stretch of road that is notoriously difficult to keep within the speed limit (on the road towards birr, close to the entrance of charleville castle).

So the van was parked there one evening and 2 young lads managed to sneak up on the van, remove its number plates, attached them to their own vehicle and drove up and down the road past the van doing excessive speed, before putting the number plates back.

Those people should never have to buy their own pints again!

Urban myth I'm afraid. I heard that one in 3 different towns.

Venus In Furs · 15-02-2015 03:15PM

twinytwo wrote: »

Nothing in this country is done to save lives just raise money

Any back-up at all for this? It's very easy to say, as can be seen on this thread, but not one jot of proof.
People can avoid having to contribute to this apparent money-racket like.

Something is a money-racket if people have no choice but to pay into it.

Venus In Furs · 15-02-2015 03:16PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

True, and in 2012/3 we had an exceptionally cold winter. A lot of people stayed off the roads and fatalities fell sharply.

2009/10 and 2010/11 maybe?
The winters after that have been relatively mild overall.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 15-02-2015 03:32PM

I ride a motorbike, a very fast motorbike ~ and I ride it very fast.

Guess what, they can't catch me from the front ~ and I like to give them the finger too :cool:

Revenue collecting whores.

Go safe vans - revenue raiser or life saver

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