Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

12-02-2015 12:12AM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I said we're shít and didn't suggest it's fine, what are you looking for? The fact that I said that negates the use of that meme. I'm just imagining what it'd be like if our play was just piss-poor to decent, never mind good, but go ahead and fire off your cartoon before you actually use your brain.

homerjay2005 · 12-02-2015 12:16AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

You'd swear United were getting outplayed by teams of Burnley's standard on a weekly basis.

thats because we dont play teams of Burnleys standard every week.

we are however, playing absolute dirt against almost every team we play - Yeovil, Cambridge, Villa, Southampton, Stoke, West ham and QPR being recent examples.

Burnley schooled us tonight at times and made us look like a team completely disorganaised and off form.

user2011 · 12-02-2015 12:17AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

that was the away fans, they were singing what a waste of money as he was coming off. Falcao is absolutely loved by United fans, no way he would be booed.

jeez we were terrible for about 60 minutes, as bad as we played all year. just like QPR and West Ham we woke up as the game went on and did ok, but overall we were putrid.

As to how Adnan keeps getting selected, ill never know, the boy is seriously lacking something that is preventing him becoming a top class player. very average again tonight and wasted the ball time and time again apart from 2 or 3 decent things in a 15 minute period in the 2nd half. alot of fans have lost patience with him and you can sense the frustration everytime he gives away the ball.

biggest cheer of the night apart from the goals was Herrera coming on - clear message to LVG sent.

i aint seen what happened Jones, anybody know what the injury was? Blind was a head injury i think, he looked a bit dazed walking off.

Rolled his ankle from the replays that got shown.

xtal191 · 12-02-2015 12:28AM

Jones hurt his knee

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/565649774087770112

Rayne Wooney · 12-02-2015 12:29AM

stankratz wrote: »

I said we're shít and didn't suggest it's fine, what are you looking for? The fact that I said that negates the use of that meme. I'm just imagining what it'd be like if our play was just piss-poor to decent, never mind good, but go ahead and fire off your cartoon before you actually use your brain.

Wasn't directed at you, was directed at the general consensus that we are shít with little improvement but getting results. Tempting fate at the moment, what if the results turn

UnitedIrishman · 12-02-2015 12:35AM

Pro. F wrote: »

Smalling and, especially, Evans looked all over the place at times, but you have to expect that with such disruption at the back. You just cannot make that many changes and have defenders in for their first game in weeks and expect them to be comfortable. It just does not work that way.

Smalling got roasted for Ings goal, but Ings' movement is class, he'll do that to a lot of centre-backs. McNair was out of position for the goal, he should have been tucking in behind Smalling so the CF couldn't run free behind him. But again, it will take McNair a few games to get up to speed. He was good going forward, much better than Valencia.

Just on that goal - bit of a moot point - but looking at the replay of it it's unreal how far out of position Evans was. It was a great ball and Smalling did a poor job of tracking Ings run but Evans was about 6-10 yards away from the rest of the line. Had Kightly taken on and beaten McNair instead of crossing, there was no one covering him at all. And that's just one example of how all over the place the line was. Look at the best sides in the world at defending (i.e. mainly Mourinho's Chelsea sides) and how close the center backs are to each other when the opposition have the ball. At least when the cross comes in you have a 2 v 1 advantage where the gap is so small that the striker doesn't get a chance on the ball.

Edit: had the game on mute but there must've been a bit of whistling/booing from the United fans?

Van Gaal on unrest of Old Trafford fans tonight: "I heard the first whistles. That is a concern because we are playing for the fans."

Your Airbag · 12-02-2015 12:40AM

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Just on that goal - bit of a moot point - but looking at the replay of it it's unreal how far out of position Evans was. It was a great ball and Smalling did a poor job of tracking Ings run but Evans was about 6-10 yards away from the rest of the line. Had Kightly taken on and beaten McNair instead of crossing, there was no one covering him at all. And that's just one example of how all over the place the line was. Look at the best sides in the world at defending (i.e. mainly Mourinho's Chelsea sides) and how close the center backs are to each other when the opposition have the ball. At least when the cross comes in you have a 2 v 1 advantage where the gap is so small that the striker doesn't get a chance on the ball.

Evans is 27 now, are we still awaiting him to fufill his "potential"? He needs to be a backup option only, about 3rd or 4th choice backup.

A defensive rebuild in the summer will likely take place. LVG needs a new style next season also. We are painful to watch right now but scraping results is covering up the cracks.

Maximus Alexander · 12-02-2015 12:44AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

thats because we dont play teams of Burnleys standard every week.

we are however, playing absolute dirt against almost every team we play - Yeovil, Cambridge, Villa, Southampton, Stoke, West ham and QPR being recent examples.

Burnley schooled us tonight at times and made us look like a team completely disorganaised and off form.

I can't really tell from your post if you're suggesting that tonight's performance was par for the course this season, but the post I replied to seemed to be saying that. Parts of today's match were the worst United have performed all season.

I get that people aren't happy with the way the team have been playing, and I get why - it's not great to watch, it's not at the standard we're all accustomed to. But rarely this season have United actually been dominated or given the run around by other teams. United have been often been in control or even dominant in matches, despite the fact that the performances have been flat and completely uninspiring.

"If we continue to play like this" implies that United have consistently been as poor as they were tonight, and that's obviously not the case.

Your Airbag · 12-02-2015 12:50AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I can't really tell from your post if you're suggesting that tonight's performance was par for the course this season, but the post I replied to seemed to be saying that. Parts of today's match were the worst United have performed all season.

I get that people aren't happy with the way the team have been playing, and I get why - it's not great to watch, it's not at the standard we're all accustomed to. But rarely this season have United actually been dominated or given the run around by other teams. United have been often been in control or even dominant in matches, despite the fact that the performances have been flat and completely uninspiring.

"If we continue to play like this" implies that United have consistently been as poor as they were tonight, and that's obviously not the case.

I wouldn't say we have been dominated a lot this season or that we were totally dominated tonight but we looked ineffective, uncreative, disorganised, boring and defensively weak tonight like we have many times this season. There is little to be happy about once you look past the good result we might get.

You know its bad when a BBC commentator says the following during a UTD v Burnely game when UTD are at home and you can't say he was wrong

"Manchester United only look a threat when they go long tonight. Hit the big man, LvG. Leave the pretty football to Sean Dyche."

12-02-2015 12:51AM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Wasn't directed at you, was directed at the general consensus that we are shít with little improvement but getting results. Tempting fate at the moment, what if the results turn

Sorry Rayne, I re-sheath my sword in that case. Yeah it's a bit bizarre, we're definitely benefiting from other teams around us dropping silly points. Without them doing that we'd surely be sitting in the Europa spots now.

There's a proper beating coming soon from some team if we don't cop the fúck on.

UnitedIrishman · 12-02-2015 12:54AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Evans is 27 now, are we still awaiting him to fufill his "potential"? He needs to be a backup option only, about 3rd or 4th choice backup.

A defensive rebuild in the summer will likely take place. LVG needs a new style next season also. We are painful to watch right now but scraping results is covering up the cracks.

Even with how bad some of our centerbacks are at the minute, he's still backup this year so that says a lot. Rojo has been the one shining light in that he's been solid and consistent all season. I may be wrong but has he bulked up a bit too since he joined? Get a partner for him at CB and another to either provide cover or push for starting spot and we'll be in good shape at that position.

The rebuild will take place in the summer no doubt. Right now all we can do is go game to game and get the results to get us into Champions League and then sign a defender of that quality.

12-02-2015 05:52AM

I think Smalling and Rojo are the best back pair when everyone is fit. I really do rate Smalling but if he can't stay fit then it's not much use to anyone.

Herrera needs to played, simple as. Rooney looked like a bad Scholes wannabe until Herrera came on but I really don't think Rooney's future should be in midfield.

Falcao was awful today, his touch let him down almost everytime and his normally good hold up play was atrocious. His confidence looks like it's hit rock bottom, he needs a goal badly.

Wilson was bright when he came on, like a breath of fresh air compared to Falcao but Burnley were tired at that stage so it's too be taken with a pinch of salt...

Giggsy11 · 12-02-2015 06:04AM

Pathetic first half but second half was better. Smalling and Evans looked so clueless defensively and positioning wise in the first half, Ings won every single ball even when he was 5-10 yards behind CBs.

Also team selection was terrible. Playing with only 1 midfielder and pushing full backs so higher up the pitch and Burnely used that perfectly. They made runs to the channels and played nice crosses.

Januzaj was poor in the first half along with rest of the team but him and Di Maria stepped up in the second half. Di Maria was very direct and worked very hard covering both ends. In one moment he was attacking and in the next he was defending in our box. Januzaj also made some decent runs.

Also one thing I noticed was Di Maria dribbled from right wing and dragged few players out of position, RVP, Falcao and every other player were just watching him play rather than making any run. It was pathetic to watch, especially from players like RVP and Falcao.

Pleased with the 3 points but performance was just poor and good that Van Gaal admitted that and nice of him to give credit to Burnley.

BKtje · 12-02-2015 06:13AM

Trilla wrote: »

Was at the game

The booing came from the away fans, who were excellent.

What a shít performance. Rooney is ruined, Evans was rubbish and Rvp trotted around alot. He can't play up top with Falcao

There was some booing from fans behind me but was quickly drowned out. Both smalling and Evans were crap in the first half but Smalling got a bit better in the second.

Jan was decent, plenty of running and they often doubled (or trippled) on him. He just needs to find a pass a bit quicker but at least he ran at Burnley.

Dunno what to make of Falcao, plenty of effort but balls played up to him rarely stuck where as rvp usually managed to hold on to them.

It's clear that many sections of the crowd are getting fed up with the ball going backwards.

Liam McPoyle · 12-02-2015 07:07AM

Where my annoyance with Jan is coming from is that he is keeping other players out of the team.

He has been given as many chances as proven players yet for the most part has delivered nothing, he is not at the required level yet and the as long as he is starting part of whats wrong with us will continue.

A number of years ago (mid 00's) I was convinced that Fletcher was Fergies love child what with his persistence in playing him when he was imo, muck.

Jan is fast becoming the new focal point for my displeasure. Obviously its not his fault, if he gets picked he gets picked but he is not near the level required or what we need imo.

Mantis Toboggan · 12-02-2015 07:11AM

Think we're going to be singing "20 times 20 times man utd" for many seasons to come

12-02-2015 07:43AM

Business Cat wrote: »

Where my annoyance with Jan is coming from is that he is keeping other players out of the team.

He has been given as many chances as proven players yet for the most part has delivered nothing, he is not at the required level yet and the as long as he is starting part of whats wrong with us will continue.

A number of years ago (mid 00's) I was convinced that Fletcher was Fergies love child what with his persistence in playing him when he was imo, muck.

Jan is fast becoming the new focal point for my displeasure. Obviously its not his fault, if he gets picked he gets picked but he is not near the level required or what we need imo.

I get what you're saying but if you're comparing Jan to Fletcher then I'd have to point out that Fletcher became one of our most important and influential players before his illness took hold. But yeah, I felt the same frustration as you with Fletcher for quite some time. Perhaps Fletcher showed how good he was in training and just took a long time to bring it to the match. Maybe the same thing is happening with Jan? I certainly hope so..

What I found interesting about the way Jan played today was that at no point did he change what he was doing. He kept trying to dribble forward and beat players. He's been getting a lot of game time recently and he must have been told to keep doing what he's been doing; keep trying to run it forward, keep trying to beat his man. Otherwise he'd surely be benched.
I've got a theory, in my own opinion, that LVG is looking for a particular balance. Certain players given a bit of forgiveness for losing the ball frequently because he wants them to constantly take their man on.
In contrast, with players like Valencia who are more inclined to play it safe, backwards it sideways, in favour of taking on their man, that leaves us with a lot of possession but zero penetration. Something we've been struggling with a lot this season.
So to summarise all that, LVG wants more penetrating play, he wants more chances created and he's willing to risk possession to do it. Sure what use is 70%+ possession if you create feck all anyway?

12-02-2015 07:46AM

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Just on that goal - bit of a moot point - but looking at the replay of it it's unreal how far out of position Evans was. It was a great ball and Smalling did a poor job of tracking Ings run but Evans was about 6-10 yards away from the rest of the line. Had Kightly taken on and beaten McNair instead of crossing, there was no one covering him at all. And that's just one example of how all over the place the line was. Look at the best sides in the world at defending (i.e. mainly Mourinho's Chelsea sides) and how close the center backs are to each other when the opposition have the ball. At least when the cross comes in you have a 2 v 1 advantage where the gap is so small that the striker doesn't get a chance on the ball.

Edit: had the game on mute but there must've been a bit of whistling/booing from the United fans?

McNair and Evans were on different sides of the pitch, not looked at the goal closely since but surely it was Rojo(who probably had his worst game at United) and not McNair who allowed the cross in. And Evans was where a LCB should be. Not sure why Smalling ran towards the ball with the cross in the air though.

Evans' mistakes were minor, mis hits that didn't result in anything. Smalling made about 4 mistakes that gave clear goalscoring opportunities and is incompetent in every way. Evans played a few great balls out to the wings and carried it forward a few times which was much needed given the state of the midfield. He's not who the witchhunters should be after.

On Januzaj I'm not sure how anyone could call that decent. He was worse than usual with regards just plainly losing the ball. It's like he thinks he's still playing under 21s and better than everyone on the pitch-well, he's not.

Di Maria I thought had a very good game but similar to how Nani used to get no credit people don't see how important someone like that is who doesn't hit his man every time but winds up with 2 assists by the end and only a good save stopped him scoring.

12-02-2015 07:54AM

Liam O wrote: »

McNair and Evans were on different sides of the pitch, not looked at the goal closely since but surely it was Rojo(who probably had his worst game at United) and not McNair who allowed the cross in. And Evans was where a LCB should be. Not sure why Smalling ran towards the ball with the cross in the air though.

Evans' mistakes were minor, mi****s that didn't result in anything. Smalling made about 4 mistakes that gave clear goalscoring opportunities and is incompetent in every way. Evans played a few great balls out to the wings and carried it forward a few times which was much needed given the state of the midfield. He's not who the witchhunters should be after.

On Januzaj I'm not sure how anyone could call that decent. He was worse than usual with regards just plainly losing the ball. It's like he thinks he's still playing under 21s and better than everyone on the pitch-well, he's not.

Di Maria I thought had a very good game but similar to how Nani used to get no credit people don't see how important someone like that is who doesn't hit his man every time but winds up with 2 assists by the end and only a good save stopped him scoring.

I thought Evans was worse than Smalling in every single way. They both made bad mistakes but Evans looked like he was playing his first ever premier league game. His distribution was hesitant, then rushed and inaccurate because he constantly allowed himself to be closed down. There were at least 5 example of him being indecisive with who to pass to (with decent options available), moving forward, allowing himself to be closed down, then playing a terrible pass to nobody. A couple of them were even charged down. He was just awful, really fecking bad.
Smalling was capable in possession and made a few decent runs with the ball out of defence, he played a very nice ball to Di Maria on the break in the second half too. He made some basic errors that could and possibly should have been punished but Evans was on his own planet in terms of bad play.

12-02-2015 08:02AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought Evans was worse than Smalling in every single way. They both made bad mistakes but Evans looked like he was playing his first ever premier league game. His distribution was hesitant, then rushed and inaccurate because he constantly allowed himself to be closed down. There were at least 5 example of him being indecisive with who to pass to (with decent options available), moving forward, allowing himself to be closed down, then playing a terrible pass to nobody. A couple of them were even charged down. He was just awful, really fecking bad.
Smalling was capable in possession and made a few decent runs with the ball out of defence, he played a very nice ball to Di Maria on the break in the second half too. He made some basic errors that could and possibly should have been punished but Evans was on his own planet in terms of bad play.

You honestly must be mixing them up because Evans ran through defense and midfield at least 2 times I can remember, once even continuing to the box for an attempted header. Also played some fantastic long balls(with his weaker foot) out to Di Maria on the right.

Honestly don't see why Smalling can get so much slack. I did think the defense as a whole were playing too deep and were put under undue pressure because of it. Evans played more like he does on the left side of a back 3 which was annoying but understandable given that's where he's played most this season. I think him on the right and Rojo on the left which hasn't really been tried is the way to go. Maybe playing a player on his strongest side will bring better performances in the shock of the season.

I think Evans has been shunted around more than the other 2 due to being a far better footballer than them and it's hindered him.

intellectual dosser · 12-02-2015 08:57AM

Well I spent Monday & Tuesday on this thread lambasting ADM and he starts the first goal, assists the second and wins the penalty for the third.

Good for him, it's good to see him proving me wrong.

It was one game though, Will need to see more of this, and better. I'm keeping an open mind.

MythicalMadMan · 12-02-2015 09:14AM

Out of Falcao, RVP, Rooney, Di Maria, Januzzi and Blind we maybe have one player that can tackle well, when we dont have the ball its hard for us to get it back and it just invites trouble onto our defence. The team lacks the balance LVG talk about.

Dont want to give out too much a win is a win and all that just want the rooney experiment to end. He doesnt appear to have the footballing brain needed for midfield.

Kerrydude1981 · 12-02-2015 09:15AM

The Benny Hill music should be added to some of the defending done by Evans and Smalling.

Mister Robinson · 12-02-2015 09:31AM

There seems to be a lack of leadership in defense and I agree with SpaceFlunky that Evans did look wobbly last night. One instance in the second half near the corner flag he had time to head the ball away or take it down on his foot and ended up mistimed heading it out for a corner. He was under no pressure at all and for a defender his age with the time he had to do that was a bit worrying.

Smalling did look a bit shaky at times too but I he thought was a bit more solid than Evans. In the first half when De Gea went to get the ball and Smalling headed it out for a corner is another good example of shaky defending and miscommunication. De Gea could have easily caught the ball.

It's as if the back four and De Gea don't communicate and it's a bit worrying to see. It's not the first time this season that this has happened too.

bangkok · 12-02-2015 09:34AM

Have we ever played a worst first half at old Trafford than what was witnessed last night?

van gaals after the game explaining why he had to put rooney in place of blind "not good for wayne, not good for the team" I don't understand this, why do it so? there is zero shape to the team at the moment

adox · 12-02-2015 09:47AM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Well I spent Monday & Tuesday on this thread lambasting ADM and he starts the first goal, assists the second and wins the penalty for the third.

Good for him, it's good to see him proving me wrong.

It was one game though, Will need to see more of this, and better. I'm keeping an open mind.

Big of you to give Di Maria another chance to prove himself to you.

I had a chuckle reading it anyway.

Giruilla · 12-02-2015 10:00AM

From f365

The form of Di Maria remains a significant concern. The Argentinean looks horribly constrained, like a caged canary too sad to sing. He gave the ball away with almost 30% of his passes, lost possession 28 times and created just one chance. It's now six chances created in 474 Premier League minutes for Di Maria, United's fallen Angel.

Have to say I didn't notice him give the ball away 28 times, so bit dubious about that stat.

Fair to say Di Maria is currently nowhere near the player he was. What worries me is his fitness level at United compared to what he had at Real.

newballsplease · 12-02-2015 10:05AM

Anderson's debut for Inter last night in RS state championship. Inter awarded penalty. Anderson stepped up. Shot saved. Finished 0-0.
Lol

Leroy42 · 12-02-2015 10:10AM

Yes last night resulted in a win, and that is of course great.

But at this stage surely the question has to be asked whether LVG actually has the ability to change the team and deal with the issues? It's not as if this was a once off. The Rooney in midfield experiment has clearly not been working for weeks, and Falcao and RVP have not been playing with anywhere near the short of level that continues to justify them in the team. (it can be argued that they lack service but then the team needs to be changed to give them that).

I am starting to think that LvG doesn't know how to solve the issues and is just hoping that some of the world class players he has pulls something out of the bag to save the day.

This is the main that came in saying he had the balls to make the big decisions, yet continues to allow Falcao, RVP and Rooney despite them showing no signs of warranting a place in the positions/style he is asking them to play

Backstreet Moyes · 12-02-2015 10:11AM

What has gone wrong with Evans besides Ferdinand over the last 5 or 6 years he looked the most natural defender we had with the ball at his feet. Now he can;t make a 5 yard pass and before he used to take the ball out of defence now he looks like he doesn;t want the ball at all.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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