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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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Comments

  • #2552
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Point out specifically where I endorsed that position please or admit I didn't.

    Good God, you are so busy swinging strawmen around, you are even building them for yourself.
    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    PTo answer it of course not, as I said its love and dedication to the child's upbringing and welfare that matter to me. Unlike yourself I don't cast judgement on peoples capacity to parent based on which gender they fancy.

    And another strawman is born.

    Anyway, How do you gauge who has the most love and dedication for a child? Should children be removed from biological parents that cannot prove their love and dedication?


  • #2553
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    reprise wrote: »
    Good God, you are so busy swinging strawmen around, you are even building them for yourself.



    And another strawman is born.

    So you can't. Once more evasion.
    reprise wrote: »
    Anyway, How do you gauge who has the most love and dedication for a child?

    I hadn't realised it was a competiion
    reprise wrote: »
    Should childern be removed from biological parents that cannot prove their love and dedication?

    Do you think anyone reading this is dim enough not to spot exactly what you are trying to do? I stand by the extant law of the land with regard to the extinguishing of parental rights, do you?


  • #2554
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    dem crazy brits..
    http://brshock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/wild-wedding-uk-woman-marries-pet-dog.html


  • #2555
    mickstupp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭mickstupp


    reprise wrote: »
    I believe the most desireable environment for children is being raised by their biological parents and encouraging that environment is a key and undeniable component of marraige.
    There are quite a number of people who would be best raised by anyone other than their biological parents.


  • #2556
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    So you can't. Once more evasion.

    Not indulging strawman arguments != evasion.
    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    I hadn't realised it was a competiion

    Who mentioned a competition, oh wait, you, you did, right there.
    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Do you think anyone reading this is dim enough not to spot exactly what you are trying to do? I stand by the extant law of the land with regard to the extinguishing of parental rights, do you?

    Of course, those rights vindicate the rights of biological parents most of all and you may remember me saying something like this earlier:

    I believe the most desireable environment for children is being raised by their biological parents and encouraging that environment is a key and undeniable component of marraige.


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  • #2557
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Child&family bill is bein presented to the opposition this week. This'll be implemented & put to bed then we can get on with the marriage referendum and we'll then at last not have to listen to the same one threadbare tired argument getting endlessly repeated by the no camp.

    If there is another argument against SSM ive yet t hear it..delighted if anyone can give me one..


  • #2558
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    mickstupp wrote: »
    There are quite a number of people who would be best raised by anyone other than their biological parents.

    It's imperfect, aint noone going to deny that.


  • #2559
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    reprise wrote: »
    And I will accept a negative decision too and expect that to be equally respected. You?

    Nope - wait 5 years for some of the current coffin dodgers to die off and hold the referendum again.


  • #2560
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    david75 wrote: »
    Child&family bill is bein presented to the opposition this week. This'll be implemented & put to bed then we can get on with the marriage referendum and we'll then at last not have to listen to the same one threadbare tired argument getting endlessly repeated by the no camp.

    If there is another argument against SSM ive yet t hear it..delighted if anyone can give me one..

    What argument is going to be put to bed?


  • #2561
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    reprise wrote: »
    What argument is going to be put to bed?

    The one about the Referendum being about giving children to gay couples for adoption.


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  • #2562
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Nope - wait 5 years for some of the current coffin dodgers to die off and hold the referendum again.

    I imagine if it is rejected we will have another vote next year , EU referendum style.


  • #2563
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Nope - wait 5 years for some of the current coffin dodgers to die off and hold the referendum again.

    If you can persuade a political party to dance to your tune, why not.


  • #2564
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    reprise wrote: »
    If you can persuade a political party to dance to your tune, why not.

    All the political parties back the amendment.


  • #2565
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Nope - wait 5 years for some of the current coffin dodgers to die off and hold the referendum again.

    funny you say that, i had a dail eireann personality say this to me almost exactly..said we should have waited 5 or 10 years for the older crowd to die off & secure the yes vote..

    funnily enough most older people i know & heard about seem to be supporting a yes vote..i do live in dublin though.


  • #2566
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    The one about the Referendum being about giving children to gay couples for adoption.

    How will this be put to bed in the bill? (genuine question - I haven't read it)


  • #2567
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    reprise wrote: »
    How will this be put to bed in the bill? (genuine question - I haven't read it)

    It becomes irrelevant. Before this referendum even happens, gay couples will be allowed to adopt as a couple. The referendum will have no baring on that, whether it's passed or not.


  • #2568
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    sup_dude wrote: »
    It becomes irrelevant. Before this referendum even happens, gay couples will be allowed to adopt as a couple. The referendum will have no baring on that, whether it's passed or not.

    How will this be worded?


  • #2569
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    reprise wrote: »
    How will this be worded?

    I'm not sure, I don't know if they finalised it yet. I just know it was proposed last January to reform the Children and Family Relationship Bill and was confirmed this year. As far as I know, it addresses a wide array of issues, such as step parentage and assisted reproduction, not just same sex adoption.


  • #2570
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I'm not sure, I don't know if they finalised it yet. I just know it was proposed last January to reform the Children and Family Relationship Bill and was confirmed this year. As far as I know, it addresses a wide array of issues, such as step parentage and assisted reproduction, not just same sex adoption.

    Thanks. I feel there may well be a bannana skin in it and probably unavoidable, but the adoption stats are so low anyway, it's a red herring.


  • #2571
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    the wording on the children&family bill was finalised last week, now its being shown to the opposition parties this week before its presented to the Dail, this or next week.


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  • #2572
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Ironically, conservatives, by opposing the extension of full marriage rights to gay people, have ended up weakening the institution they sought to defend.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/ideas-market/2013/04/03/the-science-on-same-sex-marriage/


  • #2573
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    UCD had a marriage referendum poll running for the last two days across campus, Students Union need a majority of 2300 voters(10% of student populous) to vote yes for marriage equality so that the UCDSU could say they support marriage equality.

    The results havnt been published yet but the UCDSU announced that UCD is officially saying YES to Marriage Equality and getting a new, better SU Constitution :)

    So we know that at least 1116 students voted yes for marriage equality :) Which is good to know I guess!

    But honestly Id expect that much more than 2300 pupils voted due to the serious campaigning and advertising going on over the last few months in the college, and Id reckon about 90%+ voted yes.


  • #2574
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Also UCC Students Union posted the results from their marriage equality poll.
    2,501 students voted yes for marriage equality while just 120 voted no.Resulting in a 95.42% support for Marriage Equality.
    http://usi.ie/democracy/91-of-ucc-voters-say-yes-to-usi-95-say-yes-to-marriage-equality/

    Wonderful to see how liberal young Irish people are today.:)


  • #2575
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Update : 97% of UCD students voted yes :D Great news!


  • #2576
    seenitall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭seenitall


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Update : 97% of UCD students voted yes :D Great news!

    It is. I just hope they turn up at the polls in May to do the same.


  • #2577
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    seenitall wrote: »
    It is. I just hope they turn up at the polls in May to do the same.

    Yeah thats the thing. Easy for students to vote when they're walking through campus and theres stalls everywhere with big signs up saying ' come and vote!':pac: Hopefully most make the effort.


  • #2578
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Also UCC Students Union posted the results from their marriage equality poll.
    2,501 students voted yes for marriage equality while just 120 voted no.Resulting in a 95.42% support for Marriage Equality.
    http://usi.ie/democracy/91-of-ucc-voters-say-yes-to-usi-95-say-yes-to-marriage-equality/

    Wonderful to see how liberal young Irish people are today.:)

    I think it's dreary how uniform they have become and I would say the exact same if it was 100% no.


  • #2579
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    reprise wrote: »
    Thanks. I feel there may well be a bannana skin in it and probably unavoidable, but the adoption stats are so low anyway, it's a red herring.

    But you constantly refer to parenting as if it were the issue at stake in SSM referendum? If you're not opposed to a heterosexual couple adopting a child how can you be opposed to a same-sex couple adopting a child?

    Is it only objectionable to you because they're gay?


  • #2580
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Zen65 wrote: »
    But you constantly refer to parenting as if it were the issue at stake in SSM referendum? If you're not opposed to a heterosexual couple adopting a child how can you be opposed to a same-sex couple adopting a child?

    Is it only objectionable to you because they're gay?

    Your wasting your time ,this poster will never listen to any argument in favour of a yes vote .


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  • #2581
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Zen65 wrote: »
    But you constantly refer to parenting as if it were the issue at stake in SSM referendum? If you're not opposed to a heterosexual couple adopting a child how can you be opposed to a same-sex couple adopting a child?

    Is it only objectionable to you because they're gay?

    I referred to the parenting of biological children, by their biological parents, as a crucial and core aspect of the environment envisaged by marriage.

    With regards to adoption, I stated that the closer we can get to replicating this environment, the better.

    I further agreed with the opinions of Leo Varadkar in relation to adoption which saved me from being smeared as rabidly homophobic, because my views mean so much less without such endorsement.


This discussion has been closed.
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