Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

UnitedIrishman · 11-02-2015 04:56PM

keane2097 wrote: »

If Jim McGuinness taught us anything it's that you get your defence right in year one while getting into the top four, then you get your transitions right in year two while strolling to the title.

That's the key. Fair enough we may not playing well this season but if we get top 4 and continue the progression next season with a more attacking style of play then that's perfectly fine.

The_Kew_Tour · 11-02-2015 04:57PM

keane2097 wrote: »

I thought you were saying they were lucky in those games as well. I don't think they've been particularly lucky or unlucky overall this year.

Yes, I was referring to luck, but you said my criteria of luck was more one sided i.e bad luck.

11-02-2015 05:04PM

My problem is that Van Gaal had figured it out in that winning run earlier in the season and especially the Hull 3-0 in that run was pure football bliss and then started this Rooney in midfield bull and went back to the nonsensical 3 at the back.

If he's not going to learn from his mistakes and not play the players that would help the team play better for seemingly no reason then there is going to be scepticism. He's definitely fallen well short of my expectations so far and I think it's more down to other teams not being as good as last season that United are close to top 4.

TheDoc · 11-02-2015 05:20PM

keane2097 wrote: »

They're irate about everything. See if we can get a hands up on who's happy with the results since November?

I've been irate at viewing the team, as I said in a post earlier in the week I'm not calling crisis or anything, but I'm extremely frustrated watching a team with serious ability flounder so regularly.

Seven league games since Stephens day
3 wins, 3 draws, 1 loss.

The form since the 3-1 win at Newcastle has been concerning. While grinding results is admirable, there is also some merit in performance and form. Just look around us in the table.

Totenham, Spurs and Arsenal all shaking off early season issues and problems and putting together progressive performances coupled with results.

Sure we can ignore the performances and appreciate a grinding result, but there comes a point where we will play someone of note and come unstuck. The 1-0 Southampton a good example.

My concern with the performances is that we are approaching business end, and we arn't really showing ourselves kicking through the gears. From what was looking like the team clicking, we hit the winter period and got a bit stuttery, compounded with the Cambridge draw, the stoke draw and the Spurs draw.

My concern with performances, is that we have a favourible run in the coming weeks, against teams a squad of our quality should be beating, but also starting to form patterns of play and confidence.

After this run, Spurs at home and Liverpool at Anfield come back to back. If we havn't put together some confidence and form, we could struggle in those two games and the top 4 could either be a struggle, or blown wide open.

I don't think you can seperate form as a different entity of no concern. Challengers for 3rd and 4th are improving noticeably in the last few weeks, we are stagnant. So I've a concern that if we drop points in the coming run of games we might really be struggling for a top 4 finish before we go through the games at Spurs and Liverpool.

I think that's a valid concern to have.

v3ttel · 11-02-2015 05:22PM

Spazdarn wrote: »

They're irate with the standard of football not the results.

Results > Standard of football

You don't win trophies for playing attractive football (see Arsenal 2005 -> 2014).

It's extremely difficult to achieve success playing attractively. It's arguable that we have not really done that since 2008/2009. It's even more difficult to achieve success and play attractively when your only in the job a couple of months, with a high turnover of your staff - both coaching and playing.

Being "irate" at not being able to achieve a perfect marriage of success and style within a few minutes is ridiculous - that's typical of the hyperbolic "Sell Di Maria - hes the worst player ever" non-sense that's been turning this thread into a cesspool of bullsh*t over the last few weeks.

That's not even to mention that attractive football is subjective (eg: tika-taka = sterile domination vs tika-taka = the ultimate aim).

TheDoc · 11-02-2015 05:25PM

Liam O wrote: »

I think it's more down to other teams not being as good as last season that United are close to top 4.

It has been, we made a hash of our favorable opening fixtures.

Liverpool were dreadful first half of the season, Rodgers starting to sort out some problems and Sturridge back for them, wouldn't be suprised for them to really start pressing on now.

Arsenal being Arsenal first half of the season, but seem to be coming together in recent weeks. Injured players coming back, they are going to get stronger and stronger.

Spurs were probably not even a serious factor for many at the start of the season. A new style and pattern of play, players struggling to adapt. Now they have a settled core and playing in the way the manager wants. And they are kicking through the gears.

Southampton were a " ah they won't be able to sustain it" but had two bundles of fixtures that were really rough. Came through both of them now, and to be honest have a really (on paper) handy run to the end of the season. They have every chance of maintaining the top 4 .

We had a decent spell going unbeaten after the City loss away, and have stumbled since Christmas big time. Not a major panic, might be a dip, but obviously you have to be weary last year that dip that recovered.

I would be confident the next few games will get the team settled and confidence built, and be able to really go the distance for the rest of the campaign.

TheDoc · 11-02-2015 05:27PM

v3ttel wrote: »

Results > Standard of football

You don't win trophies for playing attractive football (see Arsenal 2005 -> 2014).

It's extremely difficult to achieve success playing attractively. It's arguable that we have not really done that since 2008/2009. It's even more difficult to achieve success and play attractively when your only in the job a couple of months, with a high turnover of your staff - both coaching and playing.

Being "irate" at not being able to achieve a perfect marriage of success and style within a few minutes is ridiculous - that's typical of the hyperbolic "Sell Di Maria - hes the worst player ever" non-sense that's been turning this thread into a cesspool of bullsh*t over the last few weeks.

That's not even to mention that attractive football is subjective (eg: tika-taka = sterile domination vs tika-taka = the ultimate aim).

Probably worth segregating the OTT drama about style/performance, and the genuine ones.

We have been pretty poor going forward the last few weeks, and have struggled to create chances in many of the games. That's hardly a concern to be disregarded.

I don't think people are expecting it to be free flowing Barcalona or Van Gaal's Ajax, but its concerning to see nothing in the pattern of play that is remotely to the level that the players involved can achieve.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 11-02-2015 05:54PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

I take it we're not on TV tonight?

We're on lots of channels depending on the country you live in tho if you can receive them

RichFTW · 11-02-2015 06:05PM

v3ttel wrote: »

Results > Standard of football

I used to think this until I had to watch Ireland under Trap, it actually became painful to watch. I remember when he was appointed saying I only cared if we qualified and not about the standard of football. But when we started playing mind numbing football and then got absolutely played off the pitch in the Euros, I started to think what's the point of getting there if you're just going to play awful football.

What's the point of watching a team every week if they just leave you feeling angry and disheartened with how they play. Fergie kind of achieved the middle ground as United weren't always awful to watch but were still winning titles. Playing terrible football isn't as excusable when you're just challenging for forth. That said, I'm still always going to watch United but I can understand why some posters are annoyed with the standard given the quality players we have.

11-02-2015 06:10PM

v3ttel wrote: »

Results > Standard of football

You don't win trophies for playing attractive football (see Arsenal 2005 -> 2014).

It's extremely difficult to achieve success playing attractively. It's arguable that we have not really done that since 2008/2009. It's even more difficult to achieve success and play attractively when your only in the job a couple of months, with a high turnover of your staff - both coaching and playing.

Being "irate" at not being able to achieve a perfect marriage of success and style within a few minutes is ridiculous - that's typical of the hyperbolic "Sell Di Maria - hes the worst player ever" on-sense that's been turning this thread into a cesspool of bullsh*t over the last few weeks.

That's not even to mention that attractive football is subjective (eg: tika-taka = sterile domination vs tika-taka = the ultimate aim).

Standard of football and results are not 2 separate things. Good standard of football is condusive to results. Neither are up to the level required for United at the moment. Just because you are grinding out results doesn't mean that the level of play is suddenly ok, that's pure strawman as better football would mean less of a need to grind out results as you would be outplaying teams more. That Arsenal team weren't good at defending so their standard of football wasn't good enough to win trophies, not sure why you would pontificate attacking football when talking about overall standard tbh...

Pro. F · 11-02-2015 06:13PM

v3ttel wrote: »

Results > Standard of football

You don't win trophies for playing attractive football (see Arsenal 2005 -> 2014).

It's extremely difficult to achieve success playing attractively. It's arguable that we have not really done that since 2008/2009. It's even more difficult to achieve success and play attractively when your only in the job a couple of months, with a high turnover of your staff - both coaching and playing.

Being "irate" at not being able to achieve a perfect marriage of success and style within a few minutes is ridiculous - that's typical of the hyperbolic "Sell Di Maria - hes the worst player ever" non-sense that's been turning this thread into a cesspool of bullsh*t over the last few weeks.

That's not even to mention that attractive football is subjective (eg: tika-taka = sterile domination vs tika-taka = the ultimate aim).

You are confusing "good performance" with "attractive football". They can be similar sometimes, depending on what people find attractive to look at, but they are not the same thing.

United put in good performances consistently under Ferguson, in all the seasons following 08/09. The talk that they didn't is nonsense.

United are consistently putting in poor performances this season. Let's not pretend that the people pointing that out are looking for something that is hard to achieve.

ElChe32 · 11-02-2015 06:47PM

De Gea, McNair, Jones, Evans, Rojo, Blind, Di Maria, Januzaj, Rooney, van Persie, Falcao.

No Herrera again. Mother of divine christ.

dor843088 · 11-02-2015 06:53PM

Is it because we placed poorly last season that we hardly ever are covered on tv for games anymore ? That pisses me right off .

newballsplease · 11-02-2015 06:54PM

dor843088 wrote: »

Is it because we placed poorly last season that we hardly ever are covered on tv for games anymore ? That pisses me right off .

??? What are you talking about?!! Id say Utd have featured on TV 90% of their games. If not more...

Will I Amnt · 11-02-2015 06:55PM

That's an awful looking team, I hope one of Rooney, RvP or Falcao picks up an injury for the sake of the season because van Gaal is just stubborn beyond belief.

Save the "how could you wish injury on a player" outrage for someone who cares.

newballsplease · 11-02-2015 06:57PM

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That's an awful looking team, I hope one of Rooney, RvP or Falcao picks up an injury for the sake of the season because van Gaal is just stubborn beyond belief.

Save the "how could you wish injury on a player" outrage for someone who cares.

And you claim people go over the top about the state of the way the team plays... Then come out with that statement??!?

Ok.....

Will I Amnt · 11-02-2015 06:59PM

newballsplease wrote: »

And you claim people go over the top about the state of the way the team plays... Then come out with that statement??!?

Ok.....

What are you on about? I've said all along the team plays horribly.

Quandary · 11-02-2015 07:00PM

If that genuinely is the team then I just don't know what to say really.

Aidric · 11-02-2015 07:00PM

Pretty grim that we should be even doubting getting 3 pts against Burnley at home. Nothing less will be dark.

LostBoy101 · 11-02-2015 07:01PM

Christ, what does Herrera have to do to get into the team? LVG needs to grow a pair and drop either Falcao or RVP to fit in a proper creative midfielder rather than shoe horning Rooney into midfield

11-02-2015 07:01PM

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That's an awful looking team, I hope one of Rooney, RvP or Falcao picks up an injury for the sake of the season because van Gaal is just stubborn beyond belief.

Save the "how could you wish injury on a player" outrage for someone who cares.

Absolutely disgraceful post for a United fan, couldn't be more wrong - Van Gaal's stubbornness is unfortunately well within belief!

dor843088 · 11-02-2015 07:01PM

newballsplease wrote: »

??? What are you talking about?!! Id say Utd have featured on TV 90% of their games. If not more...

Well yeah hardly ever was an exaggeration on my part but it seems like im missing a lot of games and iv all the channels.

Vic Vinegar · 11-02-2015 07:03PM

dor843088 wrote: »

Well yeah hardly ever was an exaggeration on my part but it seems like im missing a lot of games and iv all the channels.

I think it's 3 games that haven't been on terrestrial so far this season. Small fraction.

KombuchaMshroom · 11-02-2015 07:05PM

Regardless of the result that line up really has me p!$sed off.

Has me starting to genuinely doubt him now, he clearly can't see the problem with his selections.

The Moldy Gowl · 11-02-2015 07:07PM

5-0-5

Very risky formation.

In fairness that's such a FIFA formation. So offense orientated. On that 5% chance it clicks it will destroy anyone.

Will I Amnt · 11-02-2015 07:08PM

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

Regardless of the result that line up really has me p!$sed off.

Has me starting to genuinely doubt him now, he clearly can't see the problem with his selections.

I think it's just stubbornness, he eventually canned the 5 at the back but long after everybody called for it and I do think Rooney will be moved out of midfield soon enough.

An injury is the only thing that will force his hand until he gives in.

Mister Robinson · 11-02-2015 07:10PM

What has Herrera got to do to get in the team. We were playing good football with him and Blind in midfield.

Frustrating again to see Mata, Herrera and Fellaini on the bench when Rooney and Januzaj are playing their positions.

On the plus side, I hope McNair does well as RB.

bantee · 11-02-2015 07:27PM

As well as Rooney being ever-present in midfield, I'm also surprised that Januzaj is getting so much game-time having done nothing to warrant it.

shadowcomplex · 11-02-2015 07:29PM

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That's an awful looking team, I hope one of Rooney, RvP or Falcao picks up an injury for the sake of the season because van Gaal is just stubborn beyond belief.

Save the "how could you wish injury on a player" outrage for someone who cares.

It wouldnt matter, if rvp or falcao got injured he would play Wilson, Rooney would remain in midfield. If Rooney got injured he'd play Fellaini

Kerrydude1981 · 11-02-2015 07:35PM

bantee wrote: »

As well as Rooney being ever-present in midfield, I'm also surprised that Januzaj is getting so much game-time having done nothing to warrant it.

Ya its a strange on alright,wasn't so long ago that he was rumoured to be on his way out of the club on a loan move,

He must be flying in training.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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