How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Flem31 · 11-02-2015 03:44PM

floggg wrote: »

Funnily enough, the quotes from the multinationals referred to are both the source and factual support for the claims made about said multinationals.

Links ?
Would be interested in the job growth numbers

floggg · 11-02-2015 03:52PM

reprise wrote: »

Were you not coming back to me on the differences between marriage and civil partnership?

Amazing no-one wants to look at this on the yes side.

I posted the link for you, and if you genuinely cared you would have looked at it yourself. The differences have also been referenced frequently in this thread already.

Given the frequency of your posts in this thread, you clearly have time to do so if you actually wanted to know more, but chose not to.

I also do not believe you are in any way undecided, or genuinely engaging in discussion so I see no reason to waste my time looking things up for your amusement.

floggg · 11-02-2015 03:58PM

Flem31 wrote: »

Links ?
Would be interested in the job growth numbers

Quotes from Microsoft were posted a few pages back.

Nobody is arguing companies are going to either pull out, or invest en masse depending on the outcome of the Referendum. Simply that a Yes vote is something large multinationals see as something that may have a positive impact on their ability to recruit and retain top international staff and so would be good for their business.

A country which treats all equally is a better place for people to live, work and do business - all of which are important for multinationals setting up bases here. Given our economic model, anything which can give us a competitive edge when it comes to encouraging investment is to be welcomed.

It is well down the list of reasons to vote yes, but it is still another one of the many good reasons to vote yes.

Ave Sodalis · 11-02-2015 04:09PM

reprise wrote: »

Were you not coming back to me on the differences between marriage and civil partnership?

Amazing no-one wants to look at this on the yes side.

Amazing we've come back to this. Amazinghow this has been covered two or three times on this thread. Amazing how, despite being there, you're still asking as though it's been ignored. Amazing how you're still grasping at straws for any sort of argument, despite it already being done. Amazing.

Flem31 · 11-02-2015 04:11PM

floggg wrote: »

Quotes from Microsoft were posted a few pages back.

Nobody is arguing companies are going to either pull out, or invest en masse depending on the outcome of the Referendum. Simply that a Yes vote is something large multinationals see as something that may have a positive impact on their ability to recruit and retain top international staff and so would be good for their business.

A country which treats all equally is a better place for people to live, work and do business - all of which are important for multinationals setting up bases here. Given our economic model, anything which can give us a competitive edge when it comes to encouraging investment is to be welcomed.

It is well down the list of reasons to vote yes, but it is still another one of the many good reasons to vote yes.

Maybe you should have read the Microsoft article first.

Based on the article, they can have no issue if we vote No in the forthcoming referendum. After all they describe Germany as having the same competitive advantage as other countries who do have SSM.
Apparently the Germans not having SSM is not an issue for Microsoft.

Do you have any other links ?

aloyisious · 11-02-2015 04:34PM

I've grown to need a daily fix of popcorn and it's all reprise's fault.

marienbad · 11-02-2015 04:35PM

Flem31 wrote: »

Maybe you should have read the Microsoft article first.

Based on the article, they can have no issue if we vote No in the forthcoming referendum. After all they describe Germany as having the same competitive advantage as other countries who do have SSM.
Apparently the Germans not having SSM is not an issue for Microsoft.

Do you have any other links ?

Because size does matter

, compare like with like .

All things being equal ssm does matter, just another tiny advantage in a market where small margins count.

Flem31 · 11-02-2015 04:40PM

marienbad wrote: »

Because size does matter , compare like with like .

All things being equal ssm does matter, just another tiny advantage in a market where small margins count.

What a weak justification for the economic argument

Maybe the Yes advocates should rely on moral\equality argument and leave the flimsy economic benefit alone.

floggg · 11-02-2015 04:41PM

Flem31 wrote: »

Maybe you should have read the Microsoft article first.

Based on the article, they can have no issue if we vote No in the forthcoming referendum. After all they describe Germany as having the same competitive advantage as other countries who do have SSM.
Apparently the Germans not having SSM is not an issue for Microsoft.

Do you have any other links ?

I read it.

The fact that he mentioned Germany doesn't undermine the business argument for a Yes vote.

If recognition of same sex relationships is important, than the more fully those relationships are recognised the better.

marienbad · 11-02-2015 04:45PM

Flem31 wrote: »

What a weak justification for the economic argument

Maybe the Yes advocates should rely on moral\equality argument and leave the flimsy economic benefit alone.

How is it weak ? No one is saying it is a deal breaker ,but it is a factor no matter how small.

Why is accepting that a problem for you ?

floggg · 11-02-2015 04:46PM

Flem31 wrote: »

What a weak justification for the economic argument

Maybe the Yes advocates should rely on moral\equality argument and leave the flimsy economic benefit alone.

So we accept there is a benefit, even if not sizable.

That's fine - nobody said a Yes vote was going to encourage Apple and Facebook to move all worldwide operations to George's Street, just that it was a consideration.

It was never meant to be the main thrust of the campaign - just one or two comments that the No side wanted to jump on in order to try and paint the Yes side as making unsubstantiated claims.

If it was given undue prominence in the debate, then blame the No side.

Flem31 · 11-02-2015 04:47PM

floggg wrote: »

I read it.

The fact that he mentioned Germany doesn't undermine the business argument for a Yes vote.

If recognition of same sex relationships is important, than the more fully those relationships are recognised the better.

Yes it does.
Whether or not we have SSM in Ireland wont influence Microsoft as they happily confer this competitive advantage on other countries that don't have SSM.

I agree that the more fully they are recognised the better but using multi national jobs as a reason why we should vote Yes is misleading.

The moral\equality argument is far more persuasive.

Flem31 · 11-02-2015 04:53PM

floggg wrote: »

So we accept there is a benefit, even if not sizable.

That's fine - nobody said a Yes vote was going to encourage Apple and Facebook to move all worldwide operations to George's Street, just that it was a consideration.

It was never meant to be the main thrust of the campaign - just one or two comments that the No side wanted to jump on in order to try and paint the Yes side as making unsubstantiated claims.

If it was given undue prominence in the debate, then blame the No side.

I have yet to see any proof provided of this economic benefit, it has been put forward a few times now but nothing to back it up.

The only mention of the economic benefit I have seen on this thread has come from the Yes side.
It was then brought up again with the Microsoft link.
The undue prominence came from the Yes side.

marienbad · 11-02-2015 04:55PM

Flem31 wrote: »

Yes it does.
Whether or not we have SSM in Ireland wont influence Microsoft as they happily confer this competitive advantage on other countries that don't have SSM.

I agree that the more fully they are recognised the better but using multi national jobs as a reason why we should vote Yes is misleading.

The moral\equality argument is far more persuasive.

You are missing the point countries that don't have ssm is a negative , but they may have other advantages that overcome that negative , in Germany's case - size,centrality,etc . You must compare like with like.

And or course the moral/equality argument is more persuasive and is the main plank of the yes campaign and will continue to be so. That does not mean we should exclude other arguments .

So far the only people misleading in this campaign are the no people with a misinformation campaign based on children .

Flem31 · 11-02-2015 04:56PM

marienbad wrote: »

How is it weak ? No one is saying it is a deal breaker ,but it is a factor no matter how small.

Why is accepting that a problem for you ?

Have you anything to back up the claim it is a factor ?

marienbad · 11-02-2015 04:58PM

Flem31 wrote: »

Have you anything to back up the claim it is a factor ?

Yeah the head of Microsoft just said so ! One of the guys that make this kind of decision .

floggg · 11-02-2015 04:59PM

Flem31 wrote: »

Yes it does.
Whether or not we have SSM in Ireland wont influence Microsoft as they happily confer this competitive advantage on other countries that don't have SSM.

I agree that the more fully they are recognised the better but using multi national jobs as a reason why we should vote Yes is misleading.

The moral\equality argument is far more persuasive.

Their concern is how Ireland is seen as a place to live by potential employees who they may wish to recruit here from abroad, or employees who they wish to retain.

As a gay person, I would certainly look more favourably on jurisdictions which fully recognised my relationship over those that don't when looking at places to live.

If moving abroad meant my relationship was downgraded it would give me pause for thought.

So if there concern is the perception of any employees who happen to be lgbt, a Yes vote is more obviously favourable than a No.

Lgbt people certainly appreciate the difference between CP/partnership rights and full marriage equality, even if others don't.

Flem31 · 11-02-2015 05:16PM

floggg wrote: »

Their concern is how Ireland is seen as a place to live by potential employees who they may wish to recruit here from abroad, or employees who they wish to retain.

As a gay person, I would certainly look more favourably on jurisdictions which fully recognised my relationship over those that don't when looking at places to live.

If moving abroad meant my relationship was downgraded it would give me pause for thought.

So if there concern is the perception of any employees who happen to be lgbt, a Yes vote is more obviously favourable than a No.

Lgbt people certainly appreciate the difference between CP/partnership rights and full marriage equality, even if others don't.

Now you are moving the discussion away from the multi national would factor it in.

I have no doubt that any LGBT individual or couple would factor in whether a country had SSM in any decision re emigrating. And in similar circumstances, I would also.

However having worked in a multi national for almost a decade and at a fairly senior level, the idea that the employer really cares about employees enough to factor in SSM is I believe wishful thinking.

If we vote Yes (and I believe it should pass) it wont rank Ireland any higher on the criteria re future FDI than today.

Flem31 · 11-02-2015 05:17PM

marienbad wrote: »

Yeah the head of Microsoft just said so ! One of the guys that make this kind of decision .

Link ?

reprise · 11-02-2015 05:44PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

No you didn't even have the decency to do that rather you just decided an entire class of people were unworthy/incapable of being parents.

Remind me where I said that via the miracle of links...

jobbridge4life wrote: »

So that would be every LGBT poster in the thread, some of whom may have children.

Me vs the entire lgbt community - here - globally. What next? reprise vs mankind?

reprise · 11-02-2015 05:49PM

floggg wrote: »

Racial segregation was a tradition, based on a gut feeling and supported by many churches and religious communities.

Do you think there was any reasoning behind it, or that they were valid reasons to perpetuate inequality or discrimination?

Oh please, spare me the hysterics. Stop hijacking racial segregation and slavery and fight your own corner like an adult.

Ave Sodalis · 11-02-2015 05:51PM

reprise wrote: »

Oh please, spare me the hysterics. Stop hijacking racial segregation and slavery and fight your own corner like an adult.

Can you please stop with the condescending attitude? I've yet to see you come up with an original, well thought out, well backed up argument and yet you treat everyone else like they're idiots.

Daith · 11-02-2015 05:52PM

reprise wrote: »

Oh please, spare me the hysterics. Stop hijacking racial segregation and slavery and fight your own corner like an adult.

Daith wrote: »

OMG, you're comparing one civil rights movement with another. The two things are not the same. You should count yourself lucky you don't live in Russia, etc, etc, etc.

When I'm predicting what you're going to say before you say it well there's no need for an actual debate.

reprise · 11-02-2015 05:52PM

floggg wrote: »

I posted the link for you, and if you genuinely cared you would have looked at it yourself. The differences have also been referenced frequently in this thread already.

Given the frequency of your posts in this thread, you clearly have time to do so if you actually wanted to know more, but chose not to.

I also do not believe you are in any way undecided, or genuinely engaging in discussion so I see no reason to waste my time looking things up for your amusement.

So you don't want to point out the differences? I only asked for the most pressing ones after all.

Fair enough, I will assume they are absolutely trivial and you have your knickers in a twist over issues you have no knowledge or interest in.

Daith · 11-02-2015 05:53PM

reprise wrote: »

So you don't want to point out the differences? I only asked for the most pressing ones after all.

I gave you one and you seem to have missed that...for some reason.

reprise · 11-02-2015 05:53PM

Daith wrote: »

When I'm predicting what you're going to say before you say it well there's no need for an actual debate.

I already suggested moving the topic to lgbt where you can group hug and shut out the world.

reprise · 11-02-2015 05:54PM

Daith wrote: »

I gave you one and you seem to have missed that...for some reason.

I asked you to qualify it and you declined.

Daith · 11-02-2015 05:54PM

reprise wrote: »

I already suggested moving the topic to lgbt where you can group hug and shut out the world.

Segregating LGBT people again? Oh no!

Daith · 11-02-2015 05:55PM

reprise wrote: »

I asked you to qualify it and you declined.

I did and you didn't respond. For some reason.

reprise · 11-02-2015 06:03PM

Daith wrote: »

Segregating LGBT people again? Oh no!

Huh?

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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