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Manx2 flight 7100 air crash investigation

  • 09-02-2015 06:36PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69 ✭✭


    Just for anyone thats interested tonight at 9pm National geographic channel
    Air Crash Investigation covers the Manx2 cork airport crash


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,573 ✭✭✭kub


    There is a capital C in Cork


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭ngcxt6


    Anywhere you can watch this online?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,857 ✭✭✭MiskyBoyy


    ngcxt6 wrote: »
    Anywhere you can watch this online?

    All you have to do is google watch discovery channel free online but links cannot be posted here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭jimbis


    And here come the epic 'irish' accents... :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,010 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    jimbis wrote: »
    And here come the epic 'irish' accents... :rolleyes:

    Some of the real ones so far have been up there with the fake AAIU lad at the start...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41 airbuspilot


    ngcxt6 wrote: »
    Anywhere you can watch this online?

    It will be on you tube in the next couplre of days


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    Just to remind everyone Manx2 didn't shut up shop in 2012, its now Citywing since 2013. Working at Cork Airport at the time it was a terrible event, that has unfortunately affected many including at the airport - Deepest sympathies to the family's and those involved, I know this will bring back a lot of emotions for people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭christy c


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    Just to remind everyone Manx2 didn't shut up shop in 2012, its now Citywing since 2013

    Any idea what the regulatory environment is like now?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,573 ✭✭✭kub


    Well after watching that, the term comedy of errors comes to mind.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    kub wrote: »
    Well after watching that, the term comedy of errors comes to mind.

    Not sure that applying the word comedy to a fatal accident is altogether appropriate.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭arubex


    christy c wrote: »
    Any idea what the regulatory environment is like now?

    In terms of their operations, still using the same model. Citywing remain purely a ticketing agency* and flying is contracted to Van Air Europe ( they also used Links Air until recently ).

    The Van Air L410s are Czech-registered so they are under EASA oversight.

    http://www.vanair.org/

    * Citywing don't have a UK AOC, they aren't an ICAO-recognised operating agency and their use of the IATA-like code 'NM' for their flight numbers is their own invention. NM is not currently assigned by IATA. So they are not an airline. However, they are also not in the ATOL insurance scheme so they're not a travel agency....

    The question that arose after the unfortunate incident, as to who had liability between the ticket issuer and the carrier, is still not entirely clear.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭cml387


    On the whole I thought it was pretty well done.
    Some of the accents were a bit off but the essential points of the investigation were put across well. There was the usual introduction of red herrings but I thought the mechanics of how the investigation was carried out was well done.

    I notice the AAIU had their logo displayed prominently throughout.

    Hardly a "comedy of errors".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,573 ✭✭✭kub


    Not sure that applying the word comedy to a fatal accident is altogether appropriate.

    I am sorry, you are correct of course, my terminology is not all appropriate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭Fabio


    My first time watching one of those programmes and I didn't like it much to be honest. It was too dramatic, not enough information on how the crash happened etc. There was information but I just would have liked more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭basill


    Download the accident report from the AAIU and it will give you all the facts.

    Shame that nothing has come from how these cowboys can ride roughshod around the regulations. Of course there is nothing to stop the IAA and CAA from effectively grounding them through "random" SAFA audits or even withdrawing overflights, landing rights etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    any links to it?

    its not on the usual channels on youtube at the moment yet!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41 airbuspilot


    any links to it?

    its not on the usual channels on youtube at the moment yet!
    Chanell called "air crash investigation" has put them all up so far before they came out on TV so it shouldn't be much longer I'd say


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭arubex


    basill wrote: »
    Shame that nothing has come from how these cowboys can ride roughshod around the regulations. Of course there is nothing to stop the IAA and CAA from effectively grounding them through "random" SAFA audits or even withdrawing overflights, landing rights etc.

    The regulators haven't really caught-up with the advent of agile 'virtual airlines'.

    In this case, for example, the ticketing agent is exempt from the UK ATOL ( Air Travel Organiser's Licensing ) inspection and insurance requirements because Exemption 1 applies when flights-only are provided on aircraft of 19 or fewer seats*

    On the flip side they can chop-and-change their actual air carrier should there be any regulatory difficulties with the operator of the aircraft. Airline-X having some overflight issues? Dump 'em and contract with Airline-B...


    * or in a hot-air balloon or airship of any size... now there's an opportunity for a new Hindenburg!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    It was reported in one of the papers that the AAIU declined to formally take part in the programme so their appearance in this episode is purely speculation on the part of the programme makers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭christy c


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    It was reported in one of the papers that the AAIU declined to formally take part in the programme so their appearance in this episode is purely speculation on the part of the programme makers.

    ??
    There was an AAIU investigator talking for most of the programme


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,010 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    christy c wrote: »
    ??
    There was an AAIU investigator talking for most of the programme

    Retired I thought


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    L1011 wrote: »
    Retired I thought

    Yes, looks to have set up an aviation consultancy business now.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Just watched it now, and I read the AAIU report when it was released, and in some respects, while the program covered the main issues and the reasons for the accident, got me, there was too many repeats of the graphics of the crash rather than a more detailed concentration on some of the deeper issues that were made clear in the AAIU report.

    It doesn't make for interesting TV, but the lack of appropriate oversight by the Spanish regulators, and the issues around the matching of inexperienced crew together are just 2 of the issues.

    The absence of snags on the aircraft is frankly incredible, and leaves me wondering how issues were being resolved, though we already know that the throttle stagger issue, which was a major contributor to the accident, was not addressed.

    All in all, while the program did cover the main contributory factors that came together to cause the accident, there is so much more that could and maybe should have been at least touched on, but that would not have made "dramatic" television, hence the regular repeat of the crash graphic, which while valid. it's regular repetition didn't move the program forward in a helpful manner, and in my view they overdid some of that reconstruction.

    I would also be interested to hear the reaction to the program from the another group of people that were involved, the controllers at Cork, I'm not sure that they will have been happy with the manner in which they were presented.

    I guess that we have to accept that it is a dramatic representation of a real incident, and that the makers are going to take some liberties along the way, so their representation of the facts may be less than 100% accurate.

    What is more important is to know what changes in regulatory oversight have been made as a result of this accident, and what changes in the management of this type of operation are now in place, and on that subject, the program was remarkably lacking in detail.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭christy c


    Irish Steve, I agree. I also thought the program should have included some of the recommendations in the report. While watching it I was surprised there wasn't more detail, but to the casual viewer around the world I suppose it was sufficient


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 10,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    In fairness these are primarilly entertainment shows. I'm not involved in aviation but I generally find the shows to be pretty good and very informative. they do of course keep coming back to emergency situations or the actual accident but I suppose it's to keep some immediacy in the program. I suppose we should remmeber too that the show is usually shown with ad breaks so they need to recap and show things like the general details more often. I'm looking forward to seeing the Cork documentatary when it's available. I'm sure all accidents have many recommendations included in theri reports. Usualy the show concentrates ona primary recommendation which is fine by me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭Alaba320


    Has anyone found any links to the episode on YouTube yet? If so, please share.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    Fabio wrote: »
    My first time watching one of those programmes and I didn't like it much to be honest. It was too dramatic, not enough information on how the crash happened etc. There was information but I just would have liked more.

    this is one of the best investigative programs about. ive yet to be anything but amazed by the level of detail they have and of course its going to be dramatic, its TV for f*ck sake.

    its brilliant viewing in my opinion and ive probably watched 90% of all episodes at this stage, over 14 seasons.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,058 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Just watched it now, and I read the AAIU report when it was released, and in some respects, while the program covered the main issues and the reasons for the accident, got me, there was too many repeats of the graphics of the crash rather than a more detailed concentration on some of the deeper issues that were made clear in the AAIU report.

    This is the normal format of the show, it's been pretty much the same since it debuted in 2003. Repeated animations & graphics of the actual moment of impact etc are part and parcel of the format.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    any links yet? very frustrating and its not being repeated on Nat Geo either, they are doing reruns of older ones which is surprising....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭N64


    Had a good look on YouTube and couldn't find anything :(


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