Manx2 flight 7100 air crash investigation

EIDW

Just for anyone thats interested tonight at 9pm National geographic channel
Air Crash Investigation covers the Manx2 cork airport crash

kub

There is a capital C in Cork

ngcxt6

Anywhere you can watch this online?

MiskyBoyy

ngcxt6 wrote: »

Anywhere you can watch this online?

All you have to do is google watch discovery channel free online but links cannot be posted here.

jimbis

And here come the epic 'irish' accents... :rolleyes:

L1011

jimbis wrote: »

And here come the epic 'irish' accents... :rolleyes:

Some of the real ones so far have been up there with the fake AAIU lad at the start...

airbuspilot

ngcxt6 wrote: »

Anywhere you can watch this online?

It will be on you tube in the next couplre of days

Jack1985

Just to remind everyone Manx2 didn't shut up shop in 2012, its now Citywing since 2013. Working at Cork Airport at the time it was a terrible event, that has unfortunately affected many including at the airport - Deepest sympathies to the family's and those involved, I know this will bring back a lot of emotions for people.

christy c

Jack1985 wrote: »

Just to remind everyone Manx2 didn't shut up shop in 2012, its now Citywing since 2013

Any idea what the regulatory environment is like now?

kub

Well after watching that, the term comedy of errors comes to mind.

Irish Steve

kub wrote: »

Well after watching that, the term comedy of errors comes to mind.

Not sure that applying the word comedy to a fatal accident is altogether appropriate.

arubex

christy c wrote: »

Any idea what the regulatory environment is like now?

In terms of their operations, still using the same model. Citywing remain purely a ticketing agency* and flying is contracted to Van Air Europe ( they also used Links Air until recently ).

The Van Air L410s are Czech-registered so they are under EASA oversight.

http://www.vanair.org/

* Citywing don't have a UK AOC, they aren't an ICAO-recognised operating agency and their use of the IATA-like code 'NM' for their flight numbers is their own invention. NM is not currently assigned by IATA. So they are not an airline. However, they are also not in the ATOL insurance scheme so they're not a travel agency....

The question that arose after the unfortunate incident, as to who had liability between the ticket issuer and the carrier, is still not entirely clear.

cml387

On the whole I thought it was pretty well done.
Some of the accents were a bit off but the essential points of the investigation were put across well. There was the usual introduction of red herrings but I thought the mechanics of how the investigation was carried out was well done.

I notice the AAIU had their logo displayed prominently throughout.

Hardly a "comedy of errors".

kub

Irish Steve wrote: »

Not sure that applying the word comedy to a fatal accident is altogether appropriate.

I am sorry, you are correct of course, my terminology is not all appropriate.

Fabio

My first time watching one of those programmes and I didn't like it much to be honest. It was too dramatic, not enough information on how the crash happened etc. There was information but I just would have liked more.

basill

Download the accident report from the AAIU and it will give you all the facts.

Shame that nothing has come from how these cowboys can ride roughshod around the regulations. Of course there is nothing to stop the IAA and CAA from effectively grounding them through "random" SAFA audits or even withdrawing overflights, landing rights etc.

homerjay2005

any links to it?

its not on the usual channels on youtube at the moment yet!

airbuspilot

homerjay2005 wrote: »

any links to it?

its not on the usual channels on youtube at the moment yet!

Chanell called "air crash investigation" has put them all up so far before they came out on TV so it shouldn't be much longer I'd say

arubex

basill wrote: »

Shame that nothing has come from how these cowboys can ride roughshod around the regulations. Of course there is nothing to stop the IAA and CAA from effectively grounding them through "random" SAFA audits or even withdrawing overflights, landing rights etc.

The regulators haven't really caught-up with the advent of agile 'virtual airlines'.

In this case, for example, the ticketing agent is exempt from the UK ATOL ( Air Travel Organiser's Licensing ) inspection and insurance requirements because Exemption 1 applies when flights-only are provided on aircraft of 19 or fewer seats*

On the flip side they can chop-and-change their actual air carrier should there be any regulatory difficulties with the operator of the aircraft. Airline-X having some overflight issues? Dump 'em and contract with Airline-B...


* or in a hot-air balloon or airship of any size... now there's an opportunity for a new Hindenburg!

Stovepipe

It was reported in one of the papers that the AAIU declined to formally take part in the programme so their appearance in this episode is purely speculation on the part of the programme makers.

christy c

Stovepipe wrote: »

It was reported in one of the papers that the AAIU declined to formally take part in the programme so their appearance in this episode is purely speculation on the part of the programme makers.

??
There was an AAIU investigator talking for most of the programme

L1011

christy c wrote: »

??
There was an AAIU investigator talking for most of the programme

Retired I thought

Van.Bosch

L1011 wrote: »

Retired I thought

Yes, looks to have set up an aviation consultancy business now.

Irish Steve

Just watched it now, and I read the AAIU report when it was released, and in some respects, while the program covered the main issues and the reasons for the accident, got me, there was too many repeats of the graphics of the crash rather than a more detailed concentration on some of the deeper issues that were made clear in the AAIU report.

It doesn't make for interesting TV, but the lack of appropriate oversight by the Spanish regulators, and the issues around the matching of inexperienced crew together are just 2 of the issues.

The absence of snags on the aircraft is frankly incredible, and leaves me wondering how issues were being resolved, though we already know that the throttle stagger issue, which was a major contributor to the accident, was not addressed.

All in all, while the program did cover the main contributory factors that came together to cause the accident, there is so much more that could and maybe should have been at least touched on, but that would not have made "dramatic" television, hence the regular repeat of the crash graphic, which while valid. it's regular repetition didn't move the program forward in a helpful manner, and in my view they overdid some of that reconstruction.

I would also be interested to hear the reaction to the program from the another group of people that were involved, the controllers at Cork, I'm not sure that they will have been happy with the manner in which they were presented.

I guess that we have to accept that it is a dramatic representation of a real incident, and that the makers are going to take some liberties along the way, so their representation of the facts may be less than 100% accurate.

What is more important is to know what changes in regulatory oversight have been made as a result of this accident, and what changes in the management of this type of operation are now in place, and on that subject, the program was remarkably lacking in detail.

christy c

Irish Steve, I agree. I also thought the program should have included some of the recommendations in the report. While watching it I was surprised there wasn't more detail, but to the casual viewer around the world I suppose it was sufficient

squonk

In fairness these are primarilly entertainment shows. I'm not involved in aviation but I generally find the shows to be pretty good and very informative. they do of course keep coming back to emergency situations or the actual accident but I suppose it's to keep some immediacy in the program. I suppose we should remmeber too that the show is usually shown with ad breaks so they need to recap and show things like the general details more often. I'm looking forward to seeing the Cork documentatary when it's available. I'm sure all accidents have many recommendations included in theri reports. Usualy the show concentrates ona primary recommendation which is fine by me.

Alaba320

Has anyone found any links to the episode on YouTube yet? If so, please share.

homerjay2005

Fabio wrote: »

My first time watching one of those programmes and I didn't like it much to be honest. It was too dramatic, not enough information on how the crash happened etc. There was information but I just would have liked more.

this is one of the best investigative programs about. ive yet to be anything but amazed by the level of detail they have and of course its going to be dramatic, its TV for f*ck sake.

its brilliant viewing in my opinion and ive probably watched 90% of all episodes at this stage, over 14 seasons.

skallywag

Irish Steve wrote: »

Just watched it now, and I read the AAIU report when it was released, and in some respects, while the program covered the main issues and the reasons for the accident, got me, there was too many repeats of the graphics of the crash rather than a more detailed concentration on some of the deeper issues that were made clear in the AAIU report.

This is the normal format of the show, it's been pretty much the same since it debuted in 2003. Repeated animations & graphics of the actual moment of impact etc are part and parcel of the format.

homerjay2005

any links yet? very frustrating and its not being repeated on Nat Geo either, they are doing reruns of older ones which is surprising....

N64

Had a good look on YouTube and couldn't find anything

Sean9015

N64 wrote: »

Had a good look on YouTube and couldn't find anything

I think there may have been legal intervention somewhere. The episode is not listed on on NatGeos website, it is not on YouTube anywhere that I can find, and the normal Thursday evening repeat was replaced by a rerun of the Kegworth one from earlier in the series, as were the weekend repeats. I missed in on the Monday unnfortunately, so I haven't seen it either.

geneva geneva4444

Sean9015 wrote: »

I think there may have been legal intervention somewhere. The episode is not listed on on NatGeos website, it is not on YouTube anywhere that I can find, and the normal Thursday evening repeat was replaced by a rerun of the Kegworth one from earlier in the series, as were the weekend repeats. I missed in on the Monday unnfortunately, so I haven't seen it either.

thats a good shout. its like the episode never existed.

VG31

According to the Australian National Geographic websiste it will be showing again on Tuesday 3rd March at 7:30 PM
http://natgeotv.com.au/tv/air-crash-investigation/episodes.aspx?series=13
I don't know if that's just for Australia.
EDIT: I checked the TV listings and they're showing a different ACI at that time.

It's not listed at all on the UK website: http://natgeotv.com/uk/air-crash-investigation/about

jimbis

I still have it recorded on the horizon box if some intelligent person knows of a way of transferring it somewhere. Probably not possible...

MiskyBoyy

jimbis wrote: »

I still have it recorded on the horizon box if some intelligent person knows of a way of transferring it somewhere. Probably not possible...

There is but it involves taking the HDD out of your box and connecting it to your PC. Then using downloaded software to read it.

Edit: Whoops. I was thinking of Sky boxes.

Maybe a game DVR that connects via HDMI or does UPC have encryption on that sort of thing?

galwayjohn89

I'm hoping I have it recorded on my sky box back home. If so, I'll try share it

arubex

jimbis wrote: »

I still have it recorded on the horizon box if some intelligent person knows of a way of transferring it somewhere. Probably not possible...

The *really* old-skool solution involves a camcorder on a tripod!

keith16

geneva geneva4444 wrote: »

thats a good shout. its like the episode never existed.

Very strange. I just went on to wikipedia to see if I can find anything.

Nothing in relation to why it has been pulled but they did reference this article:

The team which investigated the Cork Airport plane crash has declined to co-operate with the makers of a major documentary on the disaster, due to air tonight, out of respect for the survivors and victims’ families.

The Department of Transport’s Air Accident Investigation Unit (AAIU) said it felt it was “not appropriate” for its inspectors to feature in, or to assist in the making of National Geographic’s Air Crash Investigation programme focusing on the 2011 crash so soon after the tragedy.

andy_g

From the romour mill the AAIU threatened legal action if it was not pulled.

As its from the mill take it with a pinch of salt, if i hear more i will keep ya posted.

Alaba320

andy_g wrote: »

From the romour mill the AAIU threatened legal action if it was not pulled.

As its from the mill take it with a pinch of salt, if i hear more i will keep ya posted.

Take it with a bucket of salt!

It is being shown on Nat Geo on the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 11th and 12th of March. I don't know the reason behind the gap in original air date and repeat dates but this was the case since the season episodes were announced so nothing to do with the AAIU.

Their report is in the public domain so as long as the production company don't make up any bull and stick to the report, I don't think the AAIU could do anything, even if they wanted. And let's be honest, they'd look like complete co^ks if they did... 113 episodes made without being stopped and little old Irish AAIU threaten legal action!! We'd be laughed at!

galwayjohn89

What times is it being shown on those dates? Can't see the episode listed on their schedule.

edit

I can see it on the 8th at 3pm

Sean9015

Alaba320 wrote: »

Take it with a bucket of salt!

It is being shown on Nat Geo on the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 11th and 12th of March. I don't know the reason behind the gap in original air date and repeat dates but this was the case since the season episodes were announced so nothing to do with the AAIU.

Their report is in the public domain so as long as the production company don't make up any bull and stick to the report, I don't think the AAIU could do anything, even if they wanted. And let's be honest, they'd look like complete co^ks if they did... 113 episodes made without being stopped and little old Irish AAIU threaten legal action!! We'd be laughed at!

Not showing on NatGeos page here : http://natgeotv.com/uk/air-crash-investigation/about

Where have you got those dates from? The episode WAS originally showing on the Sky EPG for the Thursday repeat (I checked during the week), but the EPG changed on the Thursday and the Kegworth episode was re-shown instead.

galwayjohn89

Vuzuggu wrote: »

I'm hoping I have it recorded on my sky box back home. If so, I'll try share it

Bad news, got my brother to check. Its not there.

Anyone have it recorded that could get it onto DVD/PC? I'd be willing to pay!

cdsb46

The episode has bee uploaded to youtube

galwayjohn89

Those accents are quite creative!

Got it downloaded now just in case it gets pulled off YouTube

MiskyBoyy

Link for those interested:

(Please tell me this is allowed be posted as it's on YouTube?)

VG31

There's another video of it here as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNdrPr2azhE

Jack1985

It's repeated on Nat Geo at 3pm this Sunday for those who missed it.

fr336

Jack1985 wrote: »

Just to remind everyone Manx2 didn't shut up shop in 2012, its now Citywing since 2013. Working at Cork Airport at the time it was a terrible event, that has unfortunately affected many including at the airport - Deepest sympathies to the family's and those involved, I know this will bring back a lot of emotions for people.

Just watched this and all I can say to that is yuck!