How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

aloyisious · 09-02-2015 03:55AM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I don't know how do vote in this.

Are you asking about the referendum in May or how to tick on the poll on page 1?

jobbridge4life · 09-02-2015 12:29PM

Tugboats wrote: »

People should be encouraged to always vote but not how to vote.

So in other words democracy as we know it today should just be abandoned? Have you never heard of campaigning?

Tugboats wrote: »

Some people who are not in favour of gay marriage may feel uncomfortable getting a text like that even though they may have gay friends. No need for it imo

There is a need. We need to win.

aloyisious · 09-02-2015 12:57PM

DeadHand wrote: »

Given the Irish fondness for unexpected referendum results and tendency to take the side opposite to the one the government supports I really don't think this on is in the bag for the Yes side. Who would have thought the Seanad referendum would go the way it did?

Many potential Yes voters are people (young, urban, apolitical or vaguely left leaning) who don't traditionally turn up to vote as opposed to the bulk of potential No voters (older, rural, conservative) who unfailingly turn up to vote in great numbers.

Some of the more aggressive campaigning on the Yes side is serving to alienate the undecided while the deliberate muddying of the waters by some on the No side with the cynical children conflation could further serve to frighten off potential Yes voters.

I'd advise anyone who (like me) thinks the legalisation SSM is a good idea to make sure to turn out and vote, even if you never have before. One vote could be the difference. Don't get overconfident, this thing is far from won.

There is a mass of silent No voters out there. We will not hear from them until polling day.

I posted somewhere about the Slovak's having a referendum last Sat on three issues: the definition of marriage being kept as that between a man and a woman, on adoption and teaching sex education to children in schools.

According to the report below, none of the items were passed because of a failure by the Slovak voters to turn out and vote in the required numbers to validate a result. SNAFU. The result means that while SSM has not been given the thumbs down by popular vote, the status quo remains, no decision to equalize it either. Ditto for the two other items. A check, if possible, of the PIE-slices on how the vote went on marriage might show an actual voter tendency.

I'm just hoping that the same doesn't happen here and hope that the result of the vote in the Oireachtas on the Family bill gives a heads-up as to how "they" understand the nation's pulse.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/08/slovakia-referendum-to-reinforce-same-sex-marriage-ban-fails/

jaja321 · 09-02-2015 01:11PM

Does anyone know if you are registered to vote in Ireland, but expect to be out of the country with work on the day of the vote, if you can post your vote in?

corkchick88 · 09-02-2015 01:33PM

I will most definitely be voting yes! I have a number of lesbian and gay friends and who am I to tell them that they cannot marry each other.

Surely all the counts is that they love each other and that they are prepared to make the commitment to each other.

david75 · 09-02-2015 02:07PM

aloyisious wrote: »

I posted somewhere about the Slovak's having a referendum last Sat on three issues: the definition of marriage being kept as that between a man and a woman, on adoption and teaching sex education to children in schools.

According to the report below, none of the items were passed because of a failure by the Slovak voters to turn out and vote in the required numbers to validate a result. SNAFU. The result means that while SSM has not been given the thumbs down by popular vote, the status quo remains, no decision to equalize it either. Ditto for the two other items. A check, if possible, of the PIE-slices on how the vote went on marriage might show an actual voter tendency.

I'm just hoping that the same doesn't happen here and hope that the result of the vote in the Oireachtas on the Family bill gives a heads-up as to how "they" understand the nation's pulse.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/08/slovakia-referendum-to-reinforce-same-sex-marriage-ban-fails/

I'm not 100% in the details but LGBT orginisations were campaigning against that referendum in Slovakia, urging people not to vote at all, cant remember the why of it, but i read them saying its mission accomplished, there was something in the referendum or possibly it being linked to the two other questions that they were against.

david75 · 09-02-2015 02:08PM

jaja321 wrote: »

Does anyone know if you are registered to vote in Ireland, but expect to be out of the country with work on the day of the vote, if you can post your vote in?

We dont do postal votes i dont think, no.

jivedude · 09-02-2015 02:26PM

Why does anyone want to involve the state in their union in these day and age..? There would be a lot more happy people in the world today if the state has no involvement in their relationship. IMO, if you think you need the state or any part of the society to recognise your union for you to be happy and safe, then you're not ready to be together....

ronjo · 09-02-2015 02:41PM

aloyisious wrote: »

I posted somewhere about the Slovak's having a referendum last Sat on three issues: the definition of marriage being kept as that between a man and a woman, on adoption and teaching sex education to children in schools.

According to the report below, none of the items were passed because of a failure by the Slovak voters to turn out and vote in the required numbers to validate a result. SNAFU. The result means that while SSM has not been given the thumbs down by popular vote, the status quo remains, no decision to equalize it either. Ditto for the two other items. A check, if possible, of the PIE-slices on how the vote went on marriage might show an actual voter tendency.

I'm just hoping that the same doesn't happen here and hope that the result of the vote in the Oireachtas on the Family bill gives a heads-up as to how "they" understand the nation's pulse.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/08/slovakia-referendum-to-reinforce-same-sex-marriage-ban-fails/

Barely 20% of people voted in Slovakia and of those that did aprrox 90% voted to YES which was tightning the rules against Gay marriage, Gay adoption and Sex Education in schools.

The reason the voting number was so low was the people who were going to vote NO were advised to stay away as 50% turnout is needed to change the constiution.

The Catholic Church in Slovakia is ultra conservative, way more than Ireland as far as I know and they were stronly encouraging people to pass this.

Zubeneschamali · 09-02-2015 03:06PM

jivedude wrote: »

IMO, if you think you need the state or any part of the society to recognise your union for you to be happy and safe, then you're not ready to be together....

So, you don't need your partner to be guardian to your children?

You don't need them to be next-of-kin at the hospital, or after your death?

You don't care how the state decides on your taxes as a household?

There are all sorts of ordinary day-to-day things where the state recognizes couples. Just not same sex couples.

Cabaal · 09-02-2015 03:14PM

jivedude wrote: »

Why does anyone want to involve the state in their union in these day and age..? There would be a lot more happy people in the world today if the state has no involvement in their relationship. IMO, if you think you need the state or any part of the society to recognise your union for you to be happy and safe, then you're not ready to be together....

The state is involved for tax and rights reasons,

If you don't want then state involved in your marriage then thats just fine and dandy, but legally if your partner ends up on life support you'll have no legal say in what happens in that situation...your partners family will have all the rights.

Also rights to children etc are also very important factors.

The fact you've ignored these very very important issues shows you don't know what you're talking about,

jivedude · 09-02-2015 03:24PM

I'm a married man and also a parent so I know what i'm talking about. I'm responsible for my home. There are loads of alternatives out there, one just need to find which is important as in really important to them and not just generalising. There's more to life than taxes and rights. I'm saying these things are not automatic, there are so many lives that had been let down by the so call system, nothing is guaranteed or fool prove

floggg · 09-02-2015 03:48PM

jivedude wrote: »

I'm a married man and also a parent so I know what i'm talking about. I'm responsible for my home. There are loads of alternatives out there, one just need to find which is important as in really important to them and not just generalising. There's more to life than taxes and rights. I'm saying these things are not automatic, there are so many lives that had been let down by the so call system, nothing is guaranteed or fool prove

I really don't think you do know what you are talking about.

Tax and other rights are an automatic consequence of marriage. And there are no real alternative means of getting them.

I really am puzzled why you, as a married man, would question why somebody else would want to get married?

Or is it just why LGBT would like to get married? Do you not think we are capable of wanting the same things for our relationship as you did/do?

jivedude · 09-02-2015 04:18PM

I don't see why you should be puzzled about my choice and how I choose to live my life, life is not black and white and what's important to me doesn't have to be to you.
Neither did I QUESTION anyone about their getting married. I am married but I didn't raise an issue about my marriage neither with the government or any society or forum.

Why would I enter into an agreement that has consequences...?

floggg · 09-02-2015 04:28PM

jivedude wrote: »

Why does anyone want to involve the state in their union in these day and age..? There would be a lot more happy people in the world today if the state has no involvement in their relationship. IMO, if you think you need the state or any part of the society to recognise your union for you to be happy and safe, then you're not ready to be together....

jivedude wrote: »

I don't see why you should be puzzled about my choice and how I choose to live my life, life is not black and white and what's important to me doesn't have to be to you.
Neither did I QUESTION anyone about their getting married. I am married but I didn't raise an issue about my marriage neither with the government or any society or forum.

Why would I enter into an agreement that has consequences...?

Now I'm just thoroughly puzzled about what you are trying to get at here.

If people who need their relationship recognised aren't really ready to be together, is this meant to be about your own regret at marrying?

Or does your first statement only apply to other people and not to you?

You certainly did appear to be questioning why people want to get married, or at least want state recognition of their marriage, but if that wasn't your intent, then please do explain.

Zubeneschamali · 09-02-2015 04:29PM

jivedude wrote: »

what's important to me doesn't have to be to you.

But what if it is? What if a same-sex couple wants exactly the same things as you and your wife?

They can't have them, unless we pass the amendment. It's unfair - we should fix it.

jivedude · 09-02-2015 04:41PM

floggg wrote: »

Now I'm just thoroughly puzzled about what you are trying to get at here.

If people who need their relationship recognised aren't really ready to be together, is this meant to be about your own regret at marrying?

Or does your first statement only apply to other people and not to you?

You certainly did appear to be questioning why people want to get married, or at least want state recognition of their marriage, but if that wasn't your intent, then please do explain.

I'm happily married, but the state is not involved in my marriage is what I'm saying. If the reason for getting married is for tax purposes or recognition, it's not right IMO. it should be simply about 2 adults falling in love and build a life together.

jivedude · 09-02-2015 04:44PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But what if it is? What if a same-sex couple wants exactly the same things as you and your wife?

If they want same things as my wife and I, they can have it! Meet a partner, fall in love, decide on a date, ring a minister and get married in the presence of their loved ones and live happily ever after.

floggg · 09-02-2015 04:53PM

jivedude wrote: »

I'm happily married, but the state is not involved in my marriage is what I'm saying. If the reason for getting married is for tax purposes or recognition, it's not right IMO. it should be simply about 2 adults falling in love and build a life together.

I doubt many actually get married for the tax breaks. But you asked why would people want the state to recognise their union.

The tax, and other benefits are an important to reason why.

And the state is involved in your marriage, whether you realise it or not

I'm sure you quite enjoy the many perks of marriage. I would doubt very much for example that you volunteer any tax savings to the state or charity, now do you?

Now the real question here is why do same sex couples want the state to recognise their relationships on equal terms to opposite sex couples' relationships.

That question should answer itself - because we wanted to be treated equally, and don't want to be given a lesser status just because of the gender or the person we decide to marry.

If you already enjoy all of these rights and privileges, even if they weren't that important to you when deciding to marry, shy shouldn't I when I get married layer this year?

floggg · 09-02-2015 04:57PM

jivedude wrote: »

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But what if it is? What if a same-sex couple wants exactly the same things as you and your wife?

If they want same things as my wife and I, they can have it! Meet a partner, fall in love, decide on a date, ring a minister and get married in the presence of their loved ones and live happily ever after.

.

But we can't do it on equal terms to you and your wife - that's what we are trying to change.

There are circa 150 differences between marriage and civil partnership. We would prefer to just be viewed and treated as the same as you and your wife.

jivedude · 09-02-2015 05:08PM

floggg wrote: »

The tax, and other benefits are an importan
And the state is involved in your marriage, whether you realise it or not

Believe it or not, the state is not involved in my marriage and there are many more out there who are married without the state involvement.
The benefits of my marriage are a loving home, healthy children and a wonderful life and not tax exempt and all that. it doesn't come into marriage.

jivedude · 09-02-2015 05:14PM

floggg wrote: »

But we can't do it on equal terms to you and your wife - that's what we are trying to change.

There are circa 150 differences between marriage and civil partnership. We would prefer to just be viewed and treated as the same as you and your wife.

I believe you can if you truly get where I am coming from. I am not legally married according to the state, which is fine by me cos I know I got married in the church and in the presence of my loved ones. My family knows i'm married, my friends know and thats all that matters to me...I'm happily married, it's not about what others have or the way they got married.

Daith · 09-02-2015 05:14PM

jivedude wrote: »

Believe it or not, the state is not involved in my marriage

So you are not civil married?

jivedude · 09-02-2015 05:19PM

No mate

floggg · 09-02-2015 05:49PM

jivedude wrote: »

No mate

Why not can I ask?

And are you concerned about issues such as inheritance/gift tax and other issues? Or social welfare benefits if something was to happen it one or other of you?

Why did you go with a church wedding but not a state one?

In any event, I think you would agree that you are in the minority by foregoing state recognition, and most people who do marry enter into a cvil marriage and all the goes with it.

Same sex couples want the same thing too.

Edit - hospital/next of kin rights is obviously a biggie that I left out. Didn't mean to reduce it all to the monetary differences - just happened to be the context referred to in previous posts Re passive enjoyment of rights. the ways (civil) marriage is recognised and impacts our lives are innumerable.

Not2Good · 09-02-2015 06:02PM

I voted 'don't know' in this poll, but haven't got an argument yet for voting No. Being a practicing Catholic won't influence my vote in the end.

Separate from the referendum question at hand, there are issues that have not been addressed as far as I can see and certain things won't change even if there is a resounding 'YES' vote. For instance, as far as I am aware, a heterosexual couple living together [say for many years in a loving relationship but who wish not to get married 'in the eyes of the State'] are treated as single for income tax purposes and are hammered for [CAT] tax should one die and inherit by Will from the other. I understand they would get clobbered as well if they make 'gifts' to each other while they are alive (CAT again) [If I am wrong please shout!]. Of course the couple in that scenario clearly have a 'right' to marry but do not wish to exercise this right for what ever reason. If I am correct, it is sad that such a couple are at a tax disadvantage by not marrying …. I know the simple answer here is if you want better tax treatment, get married…… I have wandered from the referendum question at hand, sorry ...

I guess the referendum is all about extending basic 'rights' to a larger group of people, and it is up to individuals to exercise that right (or not) if and when the law changes … laws should perhaps change when society changes ….

floggg · 09-02-2015 06:28PM

Not2Good wrote: »

I voted 'don't know' in this poll, but haven't got an argument yet for voting No. Being a practicing Catholic won't influence my vote in the end.

Separate from the referendum question at hand, there are issues that have not been addressed as far as I can see and certain things won't change even if there is a resounding 'YES' vote. For instance, as far as I am aware, a heterosexual couple living together [say for many years in a loving relationship but who wish not to get married 'in the eyes of the State'] are treated as single for income tax purposes and are hammered for [CAT] tax should one die and inherit by Will from the other. I understand they would get clobbered as well if they make 'gifts' to each other while they are alive (CAT again) [If I am wrong please shout!]. Of course the couple in that scenario clearly have a 'right' to marry but do not wish to exercise this right for what ever reason. If I am correct, it is sad that such a couple are at a tax disadvantage by not marrying …. I know the simple answer here is if you want better tax treatment, get married…… I have wandered from the referendum question at hand, sorry ...

I guess the referendum is all about extending basic 'rights' to a larger group of people, and it is up to individuals to exercise that right (or not) if and when the law changes … laws should perhaps change when society changes ….

Yes, they are separate issues. While there are arguments for and against extending CAT and other benefits to unmarried couples in the manner suggested, that's a different conversation entirely.

As for not having a reason to vote no, then without telling you how to vote I would suggest that should be a good enough reason to vote yes.

A Yes vote is simply letting those of us who do want to marry a same sex partner marry, and do so on equal terms. It would prejudice you in any way and will do a lot of good for those of us who are affected by it.

If you have any questions or concerns feel free to ask and we will do our best to put your mind at ease.

david75 · 09-02-2015 06:53PM

great post

The law should react to reality, youre 100% correct.
the No campaign are insisting it dictate reality, based on their view and demand of it in our modern day ireland.

I also, we all are actually, still waiting on just even one sensible coherent and reasonable argument against marriage equality and all the citizens of this country being equal, and the fact is, we wont hear one put forth, cos there isnt one to put forward that isnt based in fear scare mongering and blatant homophobia..

Thargor · 09-02-2015 06:55PM

I havent seen anyone on the No side that doesn't make my skin crawl so far.

reprise · 09-02-2015 06:59PM

Thargor wrote: »

I havent seen anyone on the No side that doesn't make my skin crawl so far.

A trip to the clinic might be in order.

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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