Cork GAA Discussion Thread

thinkstoomuch1 · 04-02-2015 10:36AM

zetecescort wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks Loughrey isn't up to inter county football. I know he can be picked out of position in the corner but Every player, never mind just defenders should have some idea at tackling and shadowing their man.

Corner back is a huge difference of marking
Shane on Neill proved difference with corner to full back play even

Pat Mulcahy hurling classic example in one finest centre back in cork but as cocorsn was automatic started he played corner back that didn't suit he's strengths and while he was fine against some teams v elite like kilkenny he was exposed for one three around v aidan fogarty that crucial lost cork all Ireland
It was not he's fault it's management for asking him to do a job that didn't suit he's brilliant skillet

thinkstoomuch1 · 04-02-2015 10:40AM

Gary Neville wrote: »

Early days yet but at least we know everyone is back bar the hurlers, Butcher and Dineen.

What will our c/ship 15 be :-

I'd guess - KOH, Galvin, Shields, Clancy, Loughrey, Cadogan, BOD, Goold, Maguire, O Rourke, Kelly, Collins, CON, Donncha, Hurley

Some really tough calls - Dorman, Tomas C, Kiely, R Deane, COD, Vaughan, Cronin, Kerrigan, Crowley, Hayes, Hodnett, Goulding, Barry OD, Hanrahan - we could put out a pretty decent reserve side.

Great team bar cadogan at six as Sunday shower he's a full back only

Clancy is not a corner back

Gould won't do in the big games
Remember he's been fine league games last year but not championship

Subs

Picking a team and saying we have strength in depth imo only sufficient if subs can actually change a game and unfortunately imo while fine club players diridcoll and Hayes are not senior Intercounty elite players in

wackokid · 04-02-2015 10:48AM

The scary thing is McMenaman is unlikely to get a starting place on this Dublin team in the championship. Costello, Brogan, Mannion and Andrews, appear to be ahead oh him in the pecking order.
The Dubs have also unearthed a few more really good footballers, in Small, Carty and Brady. Shane Carty in particular looks to have what's needed for mid field.
Loughrey was handed a poison chalice on Sunday and I agree with TTM, he was out of his natural position. Really doesn't excuse his propensity for fouling though and he does this at half back also. He has good points but is too much of a liability IMHO.

thinkstoomuch1 · 04-02-2015 11:46AM

If you were to look at Sunday you would have feelings Dublin are ahead cork in scope for potential far better than cork
A likely meeting with Dublin in a quatre final or semi final is huge worry as Dublin simply won't be complacent this year
It's only now when you realise what's ahead cork is imo clear that cork last year lost huge ground on the top leaders

thinkstoomuch1 · 04-02-2015 12:50PM

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/brian-cuthberts-rebels-the-most-defensive-cork-side-ive-seen-310597.html

I think I'd be wary of praise here in last year Dublin said the same with cork

Interest of note imo was the fact he said they created goal chances still

But as Barry o Donovan said excellent assessment in echo cork defense while good was not something get carried away and Dublin did cause us problem at times

Also you could see imo Gavin just say kind cliché stiff as mentioned dan goulding playing

Dan was even on the panel

Team will be named tomorrow night and will be interesting
Shields is fit so imo with galvin out as has to start with cadogan in the full back line with Sullivan

Cork must make changes as problems last year stemmed from selection policy on wins with out realising the opponents some players were up against and while perform good in those games when they faced better opponents they struggled

Only way cork will make progress imo is if they judge every game on face value

AlienZog · 04-02-2015 01:30PM

Lads does anyone know if the Cork SH are playing Wexford SH this weekend? Saw it mentioned somewhere earlier.. if so where and when is this match??

denishurley · 04-02-2015 02:03PM

AlienZog wrote: »

Lads does anyone know if the Cork SH are playing Wexford SH this weekend? Saw it mentioned somewhere earlier.. if so where and when is this match??

I don't think it is.

Hope to have news of league panel later, for now I only know that William Kearney has made it.

thinkstoomuch1 · 04-02-2015 02:33PM

denishurley wrote: »

I don't think it is.

Hope to have news of league panel later, for now I only know that William Kearney has made it.

Thank Denis

How is the draw working for the all Ireland series for the harty cup school's etc please

I think walsh made it

Kearney I'm suprised tbh he made it, I think last week be taken for two goals and three points and kavanagh taking him for a goal in the cit game plus likes of Murphy mcdonmell o Neill Sullivan etc and Burke I don't think Kearney is best available and cork certainly have imo abundance corner backs

Good club player but imo despite huge commitment is imo off inter county defending

Will be ist twin with Daniel since the o Connor so for cork

Gary Neville · 04-02-2015 03:08PM

That's a superb accessment of Loughrey TTM. He is fine unless exposed 1 on 1. He was superb attacking v Mayo. I see him as a definate starter. I also agree that Crowley looks like he could best apapt to the corner. I hope to see Stephen Cronin in the league as he has the tenacity required IMO.

I also agree that Goold hasn't done it in big games at MF but unless Deane gets fit them he will start - Obviously Collins is not an option and Magure/Kiely combo is too inexperienced. Looks like serious competition in forwards and HB line but problems at FB line and MF.

Rebelcailin · 04-02-2015 05:24PM

Haughney dropped. Only ones from Waterford Crystal to make it were Collins, Kearney, Walsh, Brian o'sullivan and Anthony spillane as far as i know.

commonsense. · 04-02-2015 07:26PM

Rebelcailin wrote:

Haughney dropped. Only ones from Waterford Crystal to make it were Collins, Kearney, Walsh, Brian o'sullivan and Anthony spillane as far as i know.

Of those retained i think kearney is the least ready for this level yet. Liked the cut of o'sullivan, skillful and able to take a score. He might not ultimately make it but you know what, he might given exposure to top class coaching etc. Collins/walsh/spillane all worthy of league panel place at least. Don't think anyone who was omitted really did enough to warrant inclusion.

thinkstoomuch1 · 04-02-2015 09:19PM

commonsense se. wrote: »

Of those retained i think kearney is the least ready for this level yet. Liked the cut of o'sullivan, skillful and able to take a score. He might not ultimately make it but you know what, he might given exposure to top class coaching etc. Collins/walsh/spillane all worthy of league panel place at least. Don't think anyone who was omitted really did enough to warrant inclusion.

I'd have to disagree strongly

Sullivan was just only good for intermediate all Ireland winning champions team where's as colm Barry was outstanding all through

He was brilliant for club where as Sullivan had a longer run than Barry with fermoy

He's better man in the air and has a cut and drive to he's hurling Sullivan does not imo have
Sullivan was not particularly impressive imo v limerick

Haughney imo I was never a fan and doubted he's aggression however after limerick I'd have had him there above lawton as if lawton is there again it begs all believe in chance after chance while two years has showed very little
Haughney would not have has much time or indeed then likes of john cronin who never even got a run or mick walsh two year ago limited time showed promise

Spillane is going to be phenomenonal with game time

Once he break in ti the team imo he will be a full forward for cork for years to come and if colm gets injury free he has The same potential as a back or possibly ball winning half forward

commonsense. · 04-02-2015 11:05PM

Anybody got the latest on the Heffernan (Thurles CBS) saga. Seventh, think you were at the Thurles/AG game - did you see what happened and does the punishment fit the crime?

Hurleratheart · 05-02-2015 12:11AM

commonsense. wrote: »

Anybody got the latest on the Heffernan (Thurles CBS) saga. Seventh, think you were at the Thurles/AG game - did you see what happened and does the punishment fit the crime?

I heard its ongoing and so far it's upheld. 2 match ban and appeal rejected by Munster counsell and Croke park - thurles taking it further to DRA

What the hell did he do anyway?

Tough on the young fella but I'd fear a backlash now against Rochestown ecpecially when sanction against other cork team - conpirasiry theory's

Tipp crowd could make it into crusade

Hurleratheart · 05-02-2015 12:19AM

commonsense. wrote: »

Of those retained i think kearney is the least ready for this level yet. Liked the cut of o'sullivan, skillful and able to take a score. He might not ultimately make it but you know what, he might given exposure to top class coaching etc. Collins/walsh/spillane all worthy of league panel place at least. Don't think anyone who was omitted really did enough to warrant inclusion.

At end of day can't see any stepping up for cut n thrust come championship this year

Good expierence and will stand to them, hopefully develop further - Collins only real standout for me so far - I didn't see final btw

Gary Neville · 05-02-2015 12:21AM

TTM - I would agree with most of your opinons on Cuthbert and the Cork Football Team buy I disagree with you on the GK situation.

I think we should have looked more closely at O Laoire and Dineen but that's in the past now. I don't know when R Deane will be back so IMO we have Goold, Maguire and Kiely as real options at MF.

We simply will not be able to put out a MF pairing to compete with the better sides - Maguire and Kiely should develop in a year or two.

We can go short from kick outs at times but teams will mark up or press high (ala Mayo) this means we will have to go long at times.

KOH is not able to kick long with any accuracy compared to Durcan, Cluxton and others. We can't do rehearsed runs and pin point the kicks to the collection area thereby giving us an edge from our restarts. We have the forwards to win and are developing a defensive style that might work (I'm concerned that Cuthbert's coaching won't be good enough to get this perfect but we'll get it to a reasonable level) - however, we simply won't get the possession unless we pick a GK with good kicking skill.

I don't know who is the best alternative as no one has got a chance but Ken was dropped after a terrible kicking display in Killarney 2013 and I don't see any improvement.

I have very real concerns that we cannot win an AI with Ken is goals.

What are your views on my above points ?

thinkstoomuch1 · 05-02-2015 12:53AM

Gary Neville wrote: »

TTM - I would agree with most of your opinons on Cuthbert and the Cork Football Team buy I disagree with you on the GK situation.

I think we should have looked more closely at O Laoire and Dineen but that's in the past now. I don't know when R Deane will be back so IMO we have Goold, Maguire and Kiely as real options at MF.

We simply will not be able to put out a MF pairing to compete with the better sides - Maguire and Kiely should develop in a year or two.

We can go short from kick outs at times but teams will mark up or press high (ala Mayo) this means we will have to go long at times.

KOH is not able to kick long with any accuracy compared to Durcan, Cluxton and others. We can't do rehearsed runs and pin point the kicks to the collection area thereby giving us an edge from our restarts. We have the forwards to win and are developing a defensive style that might work (I'm concerned that Cuthbert's coaching won't be good enough to get this perfect but we'll get it to a reasonable level) - however, we simply won't get the possession unless we pick a GK with good kicking skill.

I don't know who is the best alternative as no one has got a chance but Ken was dropped after a terrible kicking display in Killarney 2013 and I don't see any improvement.

I have very real concerns that we cannot win an AI with Ken is goals.

What are your views on my above points ?

Ken no doubt has issues kick outs but all is not he's fault in he lacks confidence as not having constantly effective midfield pairing

The problem is not skillet as I seem him kick long many game for Bishopstown and takes sixty five etc

He's confidence is the problem but imo good coaching and midfield would fix that

Imo it's grand say player is poor but if you don't have a better option imo he has to stay in that hsnahran was not great last week

Hsnahran good keeper but he's form dropped a bit

If cork are relying on cussen and gould win midfield bar maguire cork are in imo facing a daunting task

Monaghan will be a key test Sunday

And then that's good judge team

Forwards are in cork I have no doubt as is the back seven imo the only problem imo is midfield

Coaching will be key see how it works as the year progresses

Gary Neville · 05-02-2015 10:08AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Ken no doubt has issues kick outs but all is not he's fault in he lacks confidence as not having constantly effective midfield pairing

The problem is not skillet as I seem him kick long many game for Bishopstown and takes sixty five etc

He's confidence is the problem but imo good coaching and midfield would fix that

Imo it's grand say player is poor but if you don't have a better option imo he has to stay in that hsnahran was not great last week

Hsnahran good keeper but he's form dropped a bit

If cork are relying on cussen and gould win midfield bar maguire cork are in imo facing a daunting task

Monaghan will be a key test Sunday

And then that's good judge team

Forwards are in cork I have no doubt as is the back seven imo the only problem imo is midfield

Coaching will be key see how it works as the year progresses

I'd agree with you that Ken's confidence in his kick-outs is shot. But this goes back to Killarney 2013 when we had a reasonable pairing to aim at. Ken had waited for ages to fulfill his dream and get the Cork GK slot - it was made clear to him that he was dropped due to his kick-outs. That will have been on his mind even after A Quirke retired.

I saw Ken's kicking literally disentegrate at the Tipp game last year - It was surreal - MF players were making rehearsed runs and Ken was kicking the ball into the spaces they had vacated - you could see the players wonder what the hell is going on here - it was a shambles and the players didn't know what to do. The Kerry game was as bad.

When Ken comes under pressure, his kicking goes to pieces - whilst the fielding limitations of the MF'ers doesn't help, it's not the real cause.

Proper coaching might sort it - I don't know - Kate Kirby may have a role to play.

However, we have a problem and it's not good enough to say who's better and that he's a superb shot stopper. We can't win enough possession from our own re-starts as things stand. So defending well and having great forwards is immaterial.

It's either sort Ken out or replace him - Cuthbert is doing neither and that's not good enough IMO

wackokid · 05-02-2015 10:52AM

Garry you are asking for the impossible. Nobody expects Cubby to drop his clubmate and presumably his friend. Too late now to teach Ken anything and to be fair, he did hit his outfield men accurately with two or three long ones last Sunday.
I think at this stage we are stuck with 'the devil you know' syndrome. After all he hasn't inflicted a Durcan mis hit on us ....YET

Talib Fiasco · 05-02-2015 11:41AM

I have heard directly from a few lads themselves that their inclusion in the panel is dependent on the upcoming fitz games starting today. I can't say names because I'd hate to jinx anyone. But JBM will be watching some of the games very closely.

Orizio · 05-02-2015 11:57AM

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I have heard directly from a few lads themselves that their inclusion in the panel is dependent on the upcoming fitz games starting today. I can't say names because I'd hate to jinx anyone. But JBM will be watching some of the games very closely.

Aye, this won't be the final panel, we'll see that after Fitz plus a few league games. Besides the 8-9 lads on the panel from last year, there are half a dozen more like Alan Dennehy, Shane O'Keeffe, Jon Cronin etc that hopefully management is looking at.

thinkstoomuch1 · 05-02-2015 01:46PM

Gary Neville wrote: »

I'd agree with you that Ken's confidence in his kick-outs is shot. But this goes back to Killarney 2013 when we had a reasonable pairing to aim at. Ken had waited for ages to fulfill his dream and get the Cork GK slot - it was made clear to him that he was dropped due to his kick-outs. That will have been on his mind even after A Quirke retired.

I saw Ken's kicking literally disentegrate at the Tipp game last year - It was surreal - MF players were making rehearsed runs and Ken was kicking the ball into the spaces they had vacated - you could see the players wonder what the hell is going on here - it was a shambles and the players didn't know what to do. The Kerry game was as bad.

When Ken comes under pressure, his kicking goes to pieces - whilst the fielding limitations of the MF'ers doesn't help, it's not the real cause.

Proper coaching might sort it - I don't know - Kate Kirby may have a role to play.

However, we have a problem and it's not good enough to say who's better and that he's a superb shot stopper. We can't win enough possession from our own re-starts as things stand. So defending well and having great forwards is immaterial.

It's either sort Ken out or replace him - Cuthbert is doing neither and that's not good enough IMO

You are totally absolutely way off in your expectations of kate kirby role or the complete failure realise that's just as good as a phycologist in Kevin Clancy couldn't help tactically shambles we had under counohhan
Kate kirby is a sports physiological

There job is to install belive and confidence and build mental strength in a player

However it's useless if players are not supported tactically or given support

Its bite a like a jockry haa a bad fall he's looses he nerve
A sports physiologicalst can help him
He's told that's risk but he's good that he'll have more winners than falls

However if he's I'm a stable where he's continues to be put up on poor horses that keep falling no physiological sports help will be any good for he's confidence and he of course will doubt can he actually ride a horse that doesn't fall

That kerry game you mention cork midfield was poor enough bar walsh
Yes Alan o Connor lauded for the sub appearance
Game was over kerry as I saud then didn't not give a monkey and as I said then and I was right Dublin absolutely exposed him in croke park as great player he was the legs were gone

You need to research the issue a bit more Gary in terms ken problem imo

Aidan Walsh said in interview clearly he had no session bar just two with football up to tipp game added in kerry game a similar scenario and it was not ideal for midfield as they didn't have cohesion

Now who fault is that after the shambles of dualism

Cuthbhert for he's role with football not ken
I see everybody media now are wise men after dualism won't work

With respect lot those bar a few were the ones that advocated this and totally ignored the clear warning this would be never work as I have given a detailed post December last year clearly showing why it was destined to fail

Ken kicking in training at ul camps was fine as cork adoption system at time call crabbing in a way where one group would run to a while other group run different route he could vary it

I'm championship games couldn't work as elite opponents actually had a midfield that training together and of course had much better players than the likes of Sullivan and gould

Again if you want drop ken who do you start???
You're creating the question that Ken is not up it fair enough that your opinion but you say that saying nobody replace him is not issue
Course it is you drop ken who do you start
Please name a better player and a goalie has other attributes than kicking

Martin will be fine keeper but has work he's way up
So who do you want as a keeper???
You must have a replacement?
To say imo that you unsure but drop ken is not much good imo as cork have to have a keeper

No point being guy to say drop ken but you admit hsnahran form dropped
So give me a clear replacement for him
Do you start hsnahran in this hope he'll suddenly turn gould and the likes of cussen to Intercounty midfielder while then having a shot stopper who likely least concede two goals as he's poor shot stopper to ken

I said this Sunday most people practical never said ken saved cork Sunday thry just don't want acknowledge he's saves but criticism his kick-outs when yes he poor but only half the problem and can't improve with options available to him or concerns regards coaching football team this year with cuthbhert

And no just to confirm kate kirby superb in her field is NOT DOING FOOTBALL COACHING or likely be in midfield for cork
She imo has nothing to do with this or same Kevin Clancy had nothing to do with aidan Walsh to fully realise potential as footballer as cork under counohhan never had a cian o Neill and of course Clancy had nothing to so with Walsh being played as a full forward and central forward when he's only position was a midfielder and in later part career a centre back

thinkstoomuch1 · 05-02-2015 01:54PM

wackokid wrote: »

Garry you are asking for the impossible. Nobody expects Cubby to drop his clubmate and presumably his friend. Too late now to teach Ken anything and to be fair, he did hit his outfield men accurately with two or three long ones last Sunday.
I think at this stage we are stuck with 'the devil you know' syndrome. After all he hasn't inflicted a Durcan mis hit on us ....YET

That's the essence of it
He actually hit he's targets twice when went long but problem isn't he's kickouts in not that bad problem I'd cork have no one to win them bar maguire

Cussen and gould to Buckley and moran see the difference it's huge

You could put cluxton in goal with cork and he would actually imo be made look poor

That'd like putting dan carter in Scotland team threw years ago and saying he can't get back line moving

As brilliant as he's is that team three years ago in back couldn't even score a try most games

thinkstoomuch1 · 05-02-2015 02:08PM

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/johnny-crowley-impressed-by-cork-hurlings-new-blood-310789.html

Good read

Mccarthy seen as goalie imo clear sign Collins be facilities as imo Mccarthy won't make championship cut in he won't be forward

Collins is superb imo but I feel for Darren McCarthy in he's club form forward kind went against him in seen as forward and jack all trades master none and will I fear be dropped

I think Collins needs to learn from the scenario imo and he should saying club down line wants play goal only for club as this keeper half forward dual role imo won't be good long run

Declan Dalton is another example
Brilliant goalie but seen half forward also

At senior these lads have choose one position and stick with it

Orizio totally agree o keoffe and john cronin deserves chances

Panel will hopefully have then and barry added in the championship

Gary Neville · 05-02-2015 02:38PM

wackokid wrote: »

Garry you are asking for the impossible. Nobody expects Cubby to drop his clubmate and presumably his friend. Too late now to teach Ken anything and to be fair, he did hit his outfield men accurately with two or three long ones last Sunday.
I think at this stage we are stuck with 'the devil you know' syndrome. After all he hasn't inflicted a Durcan mis hit on us ....YET

This argument is bit like which came first, the chicken or the egg. You can argue that Ken's kick-outs are poor or that he is made look bad by the inability of MFer's to field the ball.

Whether Ken is a friend and clubman of Cuthbert is immaterial - there's 3 other selectors.

MDMcA is not a huge man and not a superb high fielder - mind you he's not bad however Cluxton waits until someone makes the run and he can judge it to perfection and the ball and man arrive to the target area at the same time - this gives the target MF'er a slight edge as he runs and gets away from his marker. Other teams are following suit. He often hits Connolly running from deep as the MF'er run wide clearing a path.
This will improve the success rate of the more compact mobile lad like Goold.

It requires great accuracy from the GK and huge drilling and preparation by the coach.

When ur MF'ers are average like ours it increases the need for accuracy and drills.

IMO - it's crazy to just say Ken has no targets. We are not doing the drills perhaps because Ken can't kick accurately under pressure.

TTM - I realise that AW had limited preparation but he had a league campaigh and League semi where he played half the league games - there was time to develop the strategy - obviously not as much time as Cuthbert would have liked.

It's not correct to dismiss any input from K Kirby - u said that his confidence is gone and I agree - that is one of the areas a sports psychologist is there for. If not for the likes of that then what for ?

I don't know if Hanrahan, Lordan or Martin could do the job that's required. IMO if Hanrahan hasn't the skill-set then he shouldn't be on the panel. Any IC sub keeper must be good shot stopper - to have 1 poor kicker is bad enough but if both of them can't kick then it's crazy stuff.

thinkstoomuch1 · 05-02-2015 03:05PM

Gary Neville wrote: »

This argument is bit like which came first, the chicken or the egg. You can argue that Ken's kick-outs are poor or that he is made look bad by the inability of MFer's to field the ball.

Whether Ken is a friend and clubman of Cuthbert is immaterial - there's 3 other selectors.

MDMcA is not a huge man and not a superb high fielder - mind you he's not bad however Cluxton waits until someone makes the run and he can judge it to perfection and the ball and man arrive to the target area at the same time - this gives the target MF'er a slight edge as he runs and gets away from his marker. Other teams are following suit. He often hits Connolly running from deep as the MF'er run wide clearing a path.
This will improve the success rate of the more compact mobile lad like Goold.

It requires great accuracy from the GK and huge drilling and preparation by the coach.

When ur MF'ers are average like ours it increases the need for accuracy and drills.

IMO - it's crazy to just say Ken has no targets. We are not doing the drills perhaps because Ken can't kick accurately under pressure.

TTM - I realise that AW had limited preparation but he had a league campaigh and League semi where he played half the league games - there was time to develop the strategy - obviously not as much time as Cuthbert would have liked.

It's not correct to dismiss any input from K Kirby - u said that his confidence is gone and I agree - that is one of the areas a sports psychologist is there for. If not for the likes of that then what for ?

I don't know if Hanrahan, Lordan or Martin could do the job that's required. IMO if Hanrahan hasn't the skill-set then he shouldn't be on the panel. Any IC sub keeper must be good shot stopper - to have 1 poor kicker is bad enough but if both of them can't kick then it's crazy stuff.

But Gary that the nub of the issue your adamant ken ie not up to it yet you don't know who is the answer

To solve any problems you must have a solution
If ken best we got half loaf better none at all in you work you got

This is not like midfield issue where gould cussen are poor but cork have actually better midfielder off the panel

Ken I'd the only option
Your saying drop ken, with no replacement ready
This is elite Intercounty football were talking about

The kate kirby issues you imo are not understand the concept of her role
It's building confidence, mental strength, setting goals etc, dealing with adversity etc

She can do all that yes but how will that help if ken kick long kick out and we're dominated in the centre
So who do we blame kate kirby as say her targets are not being met

Imagine aidan Walsh scenario just suppose he went to Clancy and got goal makes him better mentally player wise etc
Then v Galway he'd player centre forward and absolutely made look awful
Now Clancy can make him a better strength character but he's nothing to do with the actual skill set of coaching the talents of walsh and actually improving he's kicking which never improved as imo was reflector poor coaching in cork that was never identified and than appalling absolutely appalling decision play a guy who kicking poor in creative centre forward role

He's decision making was poor also and while hr can be helped by Clancy develop that composure etc and ability to adapt etc it can't work when he's being asked played centre forward role that simply he's football instinct and skillet actually conflict with role centre forward

Good sports physiologicalst will tell you make decisions take ownership and grow as a leader and belive your strength and this will get you through it and when you struggling do what you do best

However when centre forward how can he do what he's does best lord skies and kicking a ball when he's poor at that
Strength character from physiological help will mean he won't give up and take bad game top bad once not keep happening but nothing do with actually the concepts of kicking a ball and creative instinct as footballer

They work natural strength you have and fear kicking long ken won't be fully solved until he has coherent effective midfield

Sports physiologicalst concepts role must be understood
I go to one and say I want to fly a plane she can say you gor to belive you can do it
Why not

However she will advise you get training etc and learn fly
I can't just hop I'm plane fly it cause she made me belief I can do it
I got learn and there's another process in training fly I have do from other experts that physiological can't do

Same with Ken he can be developed mental football support but he needs support football coach and midfield
I belive I can fly a plane I still need a co pilot for the boeing
Ive confidence from the physiological but need a crew competent enough to support me in my role

Who at midfield and in coaching supports ken
Who doing football coaching
Apparently cuthbhert
Look at the problem break down its components and you see this is not just ken faults

I never dismissed kirby role I lauded her with praise and big sport science but I fully understand what her role is what's she can change and what she can't

Your actually imo misconception of her role and due this imo if same problem exists year time she be blamed when be fair she has nothing do current problems st midfield absolutely nothing at all

The way you taking cork football resolves around kate kirby
She is part of the set up and vital but so are other areas in fairness
A clock normal needs three hands to work
Each hand just as important
Kate is not the sole answers to cork problems

Gould making runs is all well and good but tell how many runs did he make big games

You just identified Dublin are effectively coaching drills and your spot on
Who cork football coach?
Just think about this
Again leave kate kirby out of the equation

We have problems but let's not drop ken ot sack kate if goes pear shaped

Look at support structure or imo lack of it imo with proven coach and midfield

Gary Neville · 05-02-2015 03:27PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

But Gary that the nub of the issue your adamant ken ie not up to it yet you don't know who is the answer

To solve any problems you must have a solution
If ken best we got half loaf better none at all in you work you got

This is not like midfield issue where gould cussen are poor but cork have actually better midfielder off the panel

Ken I'd the only option
Your saying drop ken, with no replacement ready
This is elite Intercounty football were talking about

The kate kirby issues you imo are not understand the concept of her role
It's building confidence, mental strength, setting goals etc, dealing with adversity etc

She can do all that yes but how will that help if ken kick long kick out and we're dominated in the centre
So who do we blame kate kirby as say her targets are not being met

Imagine aidan Walsh scenario just suppose he went to Clancy and got goal makes him better mentally player wise etc
Then v Galway he'd player centre forward and absolutely made look awful
Now Clancy can make him a better strength character but he's nothing to do with the actual skill set of coaching the talents of walsh and actually improving he's kicking which never improved as imo was reflector poor coaching in cork that was never identified and than appalling absolutely appalling decision play a guy who kicking poor in creative centre forward role

He's decision making was poor also and while hr can be helped by Clancy develop that composure etc and ability to adapt etc it can't work when he's being asked played centre forward role that simply he's football instinct and skillet actually conflict with role centre forward

Good sports physiologicalst will tell you make decisions take ownership and grow as a leader and belive your strength and this will get you through it and when you struggling do what you do best

However when centre forward how can he do what he's does best lord skies and kicking a ball when he's poor at that
Strength character from physiological help will mean he won't give up and take bad game top bad once not keep happening but nothing do with actually the concepts of kicking a ball and creative instinct as footballer

They work natural strength you have and fear kicking long ken won't be fully solved until he has coherent effective midfield

Sports physiologicalst concepts role must be understood
I go to one and say I want to fly a plane she can say you gor to belive you can do it
Why not

However she will advise you get training etc and learn fly
I can't just hop I'm plane fly it cause she made me belief I can do it
I got learn and there's another process in training fly I have do from other experts that physiological can't do

Same with Ken he can be developed mental football support but he needs support football coach and midfield
I belive I can fly a plane I still need a co pilot for the boeing
Ive confidence from the physiological but need a crew competent enough to support me in my role

Who at midfield and in coaching supports ken
Who doing football coaching
Apparently cuthbhert
Look at the problem break down its components and you see this is not just ken faults

I never dismissed kirby role I lauded her with praise and big sport science but I fully understand what her role is what's she can change and what she can't

Your actually imo misconception of her role and due this imo if same problem exists year time she be blamed when be fair she has nothing do current problems st midfield absolutely nothing at all

The way you taking cork football resolves around kate kirby
She is part of the set up and vital but so are other areas in fairness
A clock normal needs three hands to work
Each hand just as important
Kate is not the sole answers to cork problems

TTM - I've no misconception about K Kirby's role - We both agree that Ken's confidence is shot - and that's an area that a sports psychologist can work on. That's a very simple thesis and we don't need to complicate it.

It's possible there may not be a better altenative than Ken - there's only one way to find out. Cuthbert may be a good coach - I don't know and maybe if Ken works on this with the MR'ers - we can develop it as Dublin have done.
I'm saying that it isn't working now and it needs to work if we are to seriously compete - we must fix it or replace Ken if a better alternative is available.

thinkstoomuch1 · 05-02-2015 03:42PM

Gary Neville wrote: »

TTM - I've no misconception about K Kirby's role - We both agree that Ken's confidence is shot - and that's an area that a sports psychologist can work on. That's a very simple thesis and we don't need to complicate it.

It's possible there may not be a better altenative than Ken - there's only one way to find out. Cuthbert may be a good coach - I don't know and maybe if Ken works on this with the MR'ers - we can develop it as Dublin have done.
I'm saying that it isn't working now and it needs to work if we are to seriously compete - we must fix it or replace Ken if a better alternative is available.

I agree totally with that but how can you give a guy confidence to kick long when he has no midfield aim at

For a guy with confidence issues clear day with town better kicking long as Donovan aim at or in fact actually kicked sixty fives over the bar
It's amazing confidence issues is in cork more so
The key difference imo is that

He'll never have confidence if gould cussen imo are kicking long

And your right there is a absolutely no need over complicate pretty logic fact kate is there mental side football nothing do actually options available kick out or actually football coaching of the team

Gary Neville · 05-02-2015 04:27PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I agree totally with that but how can you give a guy confidence to kick long when he has no midfield aim at

For a guy with confidence issues clear day with town better kicking long as Donovan aim at or in fact actually kicked sixty fives over the bar
It's amazing confidence issues is in cork more so
The key difference imo is that

He'll never have confidence if gould cussen imo are kicking long

And your right there is a absolutely no need over complicate pretty logic fact kate is there mental side football nothing do actually options available kick out or actually football coaching of the team

I was at the Tipp game last year and Ken just could not kick to the target area - I'm sure you were there too. The guys were making the runs but the ball was not arriving. You could see Ken's confidence rapidly drain away - If Quirke was on the bench, Ken was gone - irrespective of fact that he was Cuthbert's club mate.

I don't know if it's a skill/technique issue or simply lack of confidence or even both but I doubt that he could kick out to MD McA and Cian O Sullivan - obviously I can't prove that.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

thinkstoomuch1 · 05-02-2015 05:09PM

Good news in mcdonmell and o Neill be fit and availability for kilkenny game bad news for will Kearney who with conor Sullivan available means he imo will be lucky even get game time league begs question what doing their ist place

Murray dropped correct call

Amid the positivity here over few performance against poor opponents I said then he and haugney were not up to it but as said while I justified my though haugney was never senior worth go ahead of others

Good reading regards cork football this week regards Micheal meehan cork need counter attacking paramount there game

The only worry I have is after just one game the hype regards cork again is building and last year proved we had lots false dawn

I think worry have having watched game four times since is cork never went ahead by more two points at any stage game like wise Dublin so this was too close against dunlin missing key players imo for comfort

Now huge bonus cork is never allowed Dublin get ahead and dogmatic stay with them

However a goal cork were imo real trouble
Ken made great saves but that shouldn't hide fact cork were exposed three goal chances

Same thing happened cork under twenty one Collins magic four saves saved day hurling v Waterford despite full back line having huge issues
Course thry though Collins save then every game
Clare without actually going on goal feist destroyed full back line and playing outstanding colm Barry out position there not helpful

Cork football need realise thry keep giving up goal chances one day will be cruelly exposed

Problems don't just go away they actually must be fixed and imo for that to happen you must identify such problems actually exist in the ist place

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