The probes of the solar system.

JeffK88 · 03-02-2015 03:26PM #1

After going through another thread about robotics and what jobs they might make obsolete, it got me thinking. Just how much automation is there with the rovers and probes exploring the solar system. Do they have to make minor decisions themselves or be given basic instructions and they fill in blanks or is it a case where operators back here on earth control every aspect of movement and process involved with the probes. Considering the vast distances between the probes Earth itself would this not lead to problems ?
With the concept of drones been deployed on Mars how would this would the delay in communications between earth and mars not cause problems in the controlling of the drones ?

ScumLord · 03-02-2015 03:31PM

I'm sure the latest probes sent up have a lot of automation but you do always hear of the scientists on the ground telling the probe what to do next. But I'd guess once they've sent the general command that the likes of the mars rover would do a lot of automated tasks. Automation doesn't mean autonomous, generally they're automating minor processes to reduce workload rather than building things that can completely act on it's own.

whiskeyman · 03-02-2015 03:32PM

Would you also consider probing Uranus?

The Peanut · 03-02-2015 03:37PM

All your questions answered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE

JeffK88 · 03-02-2015 03:40PM

The Peanut wrote: »

All your questions answered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE

Well that just answered all of lifes questions. :eek:

The Backwards Man · 03-02-2015 03:45PM

Uranus he said hee hee hee

*faints laughing*

McDermotX · 03-02-2015 03:47PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Uranus he said hee hee hee

*faints laughing*

Scientists changed the name a few years back to stop that stupid joke.

It's now called Urectum.

Arsemageddon · 03-02-2015 03:47PM

Those rovers and probes ain't automated, they just put midgets in space suits inside to fly them.

JeffK88 · 03-02-2015 03:49PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm sure the latest probes sent up have a lot of automation but you do always hear of the scientists on the ground telling the probe what to do next. But I'd guess once they've sent the general command that the likes of the mars rover would do a lot of automated tasks. Automation doesn't mean autonomous, generally they're automating minor processes to reduce workload rather than building things that can completely act on it's own.

Surely more autonomous probes would be needed to explore lets say the vast cave systems of Mars or the potential oceans of Europa or Ceres. Waiting on Earth to communicate " Take the next left down that cave" or "Go around that boulder" would be time consumer and potentially dangerous considering the quick thinking that would be needed to do such exploring. I know people are afraid of terminators taking over the world but I believe to further our knowledge of the universe autonomous probes will have to be developed.

ScumLord · 03-02-2015 03:59PM

JeffK88 wrote: »

Surely more autonomous probes would be needed to explore lets say the vast cave systems of Mars or the potential oceans of Europa or Ceres. Waiting on Earth to communicate " Take the next left down that cave" or "Go around that boulder" would be time consumer and potentially dangerous considering the quick thinking that would be needed to do such exploring. I know people are afraid of terminators taking over the world but I believe to further our knowledge of the universe autonomous probes will have to be developed.

More autonomous robots are coming, but I'd say no matter how autonomous they get the scientists will always want the ultimate control. The problem up until now is we've had to program them for every possible problem and simple problems could trip up the most complex and well thought out machine.

The next generation of robots are learning robots though, they find their own solutions to problems. They won't error out if the cup they were supposed to pick up is blue instead of red or some other unforeseen minor difference. The next robots for the production lines won't even need programmers, they'll be hand trained by the people they're replacing.

SEPT 23 1989 · 03-02-2015 04:17PM

What happens when they finally refuse to take any more orders and start dismantling the solar system one planet at a time?

nokia69 · 03-02-2015 05:04PM

JeffK88 wrote: »

Surely more autonomous probes would be needed to explore lets say the vast cave systems of Mars or the potential oceans of Europa or Ceres. Waiting on Earth to communicate " Take the next left down that cave" or "Go around that boulder" would be time consumer and potentially dangerous considering the quick thinking that would be needed to do such exploring. I know people are afraid of terminators taking over the world but I believe to further our knowledge of the universe autonomous probes will have to be developed.

I expect to see men on Mars in the next ten years, no AI needed for Mars

Europa will need better probes, its being worked on

Egginacup · 03-02-2015 05:36PM

nokia69 wrote: »

I expect to see men on Mars in the next ten years, no AI needed for Mars

Europa will need better probes, its being worked on

If you expect to see men on Mars in the next 10 years then I'm guessing the project has been well under way for years.

I'm sure the experts have thought it out but just how do you carry enough food and water for well over a year per person on board?

Arsemageddon · 03-02-2015 05:39PM

Egginacup wrote: »

I'm sure the experts have thought it out but just how do you carry enough food and water for well over a year per person on board?

Build a very big spaceship?

crockholm · 03-02-2015 05:44PM

Pot noodles.And lots o' them.

nokia69 · 03-02-2015 05:49PM

Egginacup wrote: »

If you expect to see men on Mars in the next 10 years then I'm guessing the project has been well under way for years.

I'm sure the experts have thought it out but just how do you carry enough food and water for well over a year per person on board?

yes the experts have been working on different plans for years, Robert Zubrins Mars direct is a good plan IMO

first we need a Saturn V or better, work has started on the engine for a rocket that will make the Saturn V look small

The_B_Man · 03-02-2015 06:27PM

ScumLord wrote: »

The next robots for the production lines won't even need programmers, they'll be hand trained by the people they're replacing.

But who's gonna write the code that tells them how to learn??

ScumLord · 03-02-2015 06:56PM

The_B_Man wrote: »

But who's gonna write the code that tells them how to learn??

scamalert · 03-02-2015 06:58PM

OP mustn't watched any documentaries at all how these yokes work. Why do you think all the rovers on mars only covered about couple miles in last 3-7 years ? radio signal takes around 15-30min at most to send communication signals etc.Most stuff is automated but control can always be switched over to manual,and lots more if something breaks. Only good story i know of the probe that was sent to take pictures of some planet years ago,and someone forgot to take cap of the lens before probe was packed and launched into space,if not for other equipment on-board, it would of been millions floating in space with no use

JeffK88 · 03-02-2015 08:46PM

scamalert wrote: »

OP mustn't watched any documentaries at all how these yokes work. Why do you think all the rovers on mars only covered about couple miles in last 3-7 years ? radio signal takes around 15-30min at most to send communication signals etc.Most stuff is automated but control can always be switched over to manual,and lots more if something breaks. Only good story i know of the probe that was sent to take pictures of some planet years ago,and someone forgot to take cap of the lens before probe was packed and launched into space,if not for other equipment on-board, it would of been millions floating in space with no use

Actually i've watched plenty none of them have really addressed how smart the probes were or how they overcame problems. We've come along way the older generation had a very low success rate , today they almost always succeed. The Russians must have bankrupted themselves with sending probes into space, that was the downfall of the Soviet Union look at the failure rate in the early years :eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Solar_System_probes

the_monkey · 04-02-2015 01:49AM

nokia69 wrote: »

I expect to see men on Mars in the next ten years, no AI needed for Mars

Europa will need better probes, its being worked on

Not a chance, try 50 - and maybe you'll have a manned expedition there.

Rhys Essien · 04-02-2015 02:38AM

JeffK88 wrote: »

Surely more autonomous probes would be needed to explore lets say the vast cave systems of Mars or the potential oceans of Europa or Ceres. Waiting on Earth to communicate " Take the next left down that cave" or "Go around that boulder" would be time consumer and potentially dangerous considering the quick thinking that would be needed to do such exploring. I know people are afraid of terminators taking over the world but I believe to further our knowledge of the universe autonomous probes will have to be developed.

At present,this lad is on board the Space Station.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robonaut

nokia69 · 04-02-2015 03:33AM

the_monkey wrote: »

Not a chance, try 50 - and maybe you'll have a manned expedition there.

watch it happen

if you have in interest in manned space flight the next ten years will be amazing

the_monkey · 04-02-2015 11:24AM

nokia69 wrote: »

watch it happen

if you have in interest in manned space flight the next ten years will be amazing

I do - and I hope you prove me wrong

Capt'n Midnight · 05-02-2015 09:47PM

nokia69 wrote: »

watch it happen

if you have in interest in manned space flight the next ten years will be amazing

In the last two months Russia and India have tested new launch systems that can be used for manned flight.

Meanwhile the US is busy pouring money into the bottomless pit of having several parallel programs reinventing Saturn 1B and Apollo. And apart from SpaceX it's literally a case of re-inventing because most of the other programs are re-using or just rebadging flight tested hardware

At this stage ULA's Atlas owes more to the Russians that it does the original US Atlas. The service module for Orion is just a pimped out ESA ATV. Orbital Sciences are getting their rockets make in Ukraine and have just ordered a Billion dollars of Russian RD-191 engines.
And I can't believe how much money has been thrown at things based on the Shuttle Main Engines and SRB's when for a fraction of the price Energia could be restructured and it's a modular system that could take between two and eight boosters.

In the 1960's no one would have said that the US would abandon manned space flight and the Russians would be still using Soyuz 30 years later.

In the 1990's no one would have said that the US would abandon manned space flight and the Russians would be still using Soyuz 30 years later.

Maybe the US will get it right this time , but manned spaceflight is no longer the exclusive club it once was. China has a manned program. ESA and Japan already have the launchers and orbital modules all they would need are the crew capsules. India is developing a manned program too

JeffK88 · 05-02-2015 11:19PM

The next couple of years have the potential for some exciting developments. More than likely the next major step in the exploration will be by one of the BRICS nations and perhaps ESA collaborating in some way. NASA has become stagnated and needs reinventing. The US needs to establish a new 21st Century programme or else it will be left in the dust.

nokia69 · 05-02-2015 11:33PM

JeffK88 wrote: »

The next couple of years have the potential for some exciting developments. More than likely the next major step in the exploration will be by one of the BRICS nations and perhaps ESA collaborating in some way. NASA has become stagnated and needs reinventing. The US needs to establish a new 21st Century programme or else it will be left in the dust.

NASA is slowly getting better, with a bit of luck in a few years they will cancel the SLS

the BRICS apart from Russia (who are running out of cash) are a long way behind

spaceX are about to take a large lead

JeffK88 · 05-02-2015 11:43PM

Perhaps but I think after NASA abandoned the manned space flight programme they lost their way.Perhaps they will find their feet again. I've mixed opinions about outsourcing national space programmes to private industries I think the governments should maintain control. Spacex will begin selling vehicles to major players and the commercialising of space will take place. Meanwhile back on Earth we have seen the damage and benefits big business has brought to us all. So once they enter or if they enter the space race things will really get interesting.

05-02-2015 11:46PM

I'll probe your solar system.

nokia69 · 05-02-2015 11:47PM

who do you think built NASA hardware in the past

they are getting a far better deal from spaceX ect than they are with the SLS

Capt'n Midnight · 06-02-2015 12:10AM

nokia69 wrote: »

the BRICS apart from Russia (who are running out of cash) are a long way behind

spaceX are about to take a large lead

What do you mean a long way behind ?

China have manned spaceflight and soft landed a rover on the moon.

India have gotten to Mars on a shoestring and their recent test sub-orbital test of the GSLV with capsule cost them just $24m numbers that should scare SpaceX because there's going to be competition in the $5Bn satellite launch market

the cost of the satellites was three times as much at $15.7Bn
http://www.sia.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/SSIR-September-2014-Update.pdf

The probes of the solar system.

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