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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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Comments

  • #812
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Being told she is equal in every way to a straight couple sends out a message that she doesn't have to hide away anymore.

    In fairness she shouldnt have to hide away but I understand that point (Ive had it explained to me by nearly all of my gay friends the pressures of both coming out and not coming out).
    eviltwin wrote: »
    As her parent I tell her every day how proud I am of her and how she should walk tall. But it's still hard when her sexuality is what decides what rights she has. It shouldn't be that way.

    Genuinely, I'm glad you do and are 100% supportive of her she must feel blessed to have such a supportive parent.

    Your right it shouldn't be that way but the real world isn't always fair , perhaps you could rationalise / compare to her the unfairness to the same unfairness that single fathers suffer daily in the courts and that everyone has their own struggles ????


  • #813
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Your right it shouldn't be that way but the real world isn't always fair , perhaps you could rationalise / compare to her the unfairness to the same unfairness that single fathers suffer daily in the courts and that everyone has their own struggles ????
    So, "the world is unfair, toughen up and live with it, love"?


  • #814
    jaja321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭jaja321


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

    Your right it shouldn't be that way but the real world isn't always fair , perhaps you could rationalise / compare to her the unfairness to the same unfairness that single fathers suffer daily in the courts and that everyone has their own struggles ????

    So we should just accept the status quo?! Yeah, everyone has their struggles - doesn't mean we just put up and shut about things - we should aim to live in as fair and equal society as is possible and treat people with respect.


  • #815
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    eviltwin wrote: »
    People getting emotional over an important issue for them or their loved ones. Of course we are emotional. There are posters here who are engaged and who are relying on this referendum to pass in order to take the next step. I can't imagine how frustrating and stressful that must be. Have a bit of empathy and put yourself in their shoes for a minute.

    I think I have shown plenty of empathy and understanding and been as respectful as possible (while at same time trying to get my points across) at all times.


  • #816
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    You use phrases like I am denying your right and so on, but I am denying you nothing and there is not point in personalising it that way, I am but one person within this country.

    By voting No you are contributing to denying peoples rights. You are 100% comfortable with this?


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  • #817
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    jaja321 wrote: »
    So we should just accept the status quo?! Yeah, everyone has their struggles - doesn't mean we just put up and shut about things - we should aim to live in as fair and equal society as is possible and treat people with respect.

    100% agree , I was using it as a comparitive
    seamus wrote: »
    So, "the world is unfair, toughen up and live with it, love"?

    Is the world all perfume and roses ? Or is the real world filled with unfairness ?
    Daith wrote: »
    By voting No you are contributing to denying peoples rights. You are 100% comfortable with this?

    As comfortable as you will be voting Yes


  • #818
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

    Your right it shouldn't be that way but the real world isn't always fair , perhaps you could rationalise / compare to her the unfairness to the same unfairness that single fathers suffer daily in the courts and that everyone has their own struggles ????

    Yet you have, in your power, the ability to help change it. But you won't.

    It would be like me saying that I think it's hugely unfair that single fathers get a hard time in court but going on to say that I'm going to vote no on whether they should be treated equally and without discrimination because I belive only mothers should raise children. But that's okay because I'm friends with a few fathers. Is that fair?


  • #819
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Is the world all perfume and roses ? Or is the real world filled with unfairness ?

    What does that have to do with anything?

    You would vote no to homosexual couples being equal.

    You would vote no to same sex families being equal.

    You have no logic or merit to any of your arguments.


  • #820
    Philo Beddoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Philo Beddoe


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    You use phrases like I am denying your right and so on, but I am denying you nothing and there is not point in personalising it that way, I am but one person within this country.

    Collectively you are being denied your moral (not currently legal) right to marriage by the State not by me.

    Referendums allow us to vote on the contents of our constitution i.e. the rights given or denied by the state. By voting no you are choosing to endorse the continued denial of rights by the state. As every man and woman eligible to vote is 'but one person' we are all equally responsible for the behaviour of the state on this issue.


  • #821
    jaja321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭jaja321


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    100% agree , I was using it as a comparitive

    If you agree though, how can you vote no? You will be ensuring people are not treated equally.


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  • #822
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    sup_dude wrote: »
    Yet you have, in your power, the ability to help change it. But you won't.

    It would be like me saying that I think it's hugely unfair that single fathers get a hard time in court but going on to say that I'm going to vote no on whether they should be treated equally and without discrimination because I belive only mothers should raise children. But that's okay because I'm friends with a few fathers. Is that fair?

    No it's not fair but thats the simple reality for both the referendum and single fathers (not to drag off topic)


  • #823
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

    As comfortable as you will be voting Yes

    I'm 100% comfortable allowing people to have full rights yes.

    Are you 100% comfortable in denying them rights?


  • #824
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    No it's not fair but thats the simple reality for both the referendum and single fathers (not to drag off topic)

    You already went off topic when you brought children into it.


  • #825
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    No it's not fair but thats the simple reality for both the referendum and single fathers (not to drag off topic)


    It's not fair but there's a way to change it. It'd be a pretty backwards society if everyone decided not to change unfairness when they could.


  • #826
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Philo Beddoe wrote: »
    Referendums allow us to vote on the contents of our constitution i.e. the rights given or denied by the state. By voting no you are choosing to endorse the continued denial of rights by the state. As every man and woman eligible to vote is 'but one person' we are all equally responsible for the behaviour of the state on this issue.

    That is my democratic right to do so regardless of how flawed you find my reason for doing so.

    Just as it is your moral right for marriage equality it is my legal right to vote on the referendum whatever way I see fit whether thats yes, no or abstain.


  • #827
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Just as it is your moral right for marriage equality it is my legal right to vote on the referendum whatever way I see fit whether thats yes, no or abstain.

    Cool, you don't believe in equality. I'd wish you just say it though. At least I'd respect your honesty.


  • #828
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    That is my democratic right to do so regardless of how flawed you find my reason for doing so.

    Just as it is your moral right for marriage equality it is my legal right to vote on the referendum whatever way I see fit whether thats yes, no or abstain.


    That doesn't negate the point made in the quoted post...


  • #829
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    I'm 100% comfortable allowing people to have full rights yes.

    Are you 100% comfortable in denying them rights?

    On the right to marriage equality yes.

    But on other equality issues I have already stated my support for equal rights for gays.


  • #830
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    spikeS wrote: »
    You said two parents are better then one, this is not true and plenty of single parents do a great job raising their kids
    Well actually it is true, in general. In general, children with two parents in a loving a stable relationship, irrespective of the sex of those parents, tend to do better than children raised by a single parent of either sex. There are plenty of studies showing this. I quite happily accept this, coming, as I do, from a single parent family. I understand that this is not something to take offence at. The key here is 'in general'. I have done pretty well as a child of a single parent family. I am fairly well educated, I earn a decent living, I have children that are well adjusted and well behaved. I even have a teenage daughter that has, thus far, managed to not get pregnant.
    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I'm not using it as an argument I'm using it as the foundation for my belief that a child should be raised by a mother and father and not two people of the same sex.

    And whilst everyone is, of course, entitled to their beliefs, when that belief is shown to be in conflict with reality, and the belief is held onto, then it start to look like something else...

    MrP


  • #831
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Or is the real world filled with unfairness ?

    Yes, partly because of people like you voting against fairness.


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  • #832
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    But on other equality issues I have already stated my support for equal rights for gays.

    Yes you don't support equality.


  • #833
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    Cool, you don't believe in equality. I'd wish you just say it though. At least I'd respect your honesty.

    I believe in equality, but marriage is between a man and woman thats my belief.

    Question for you which is hypotetical obviously and not trying to be smart.

    A magic wand is waved tomorrow and gays are granted every single equal legal standing as a married heterosexual couple except marriage would you be happy?


  • #834
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I believe in equality, but marriage is between a man and woman thats my belief.

    You don't cherry pick equality. You don't believe in it.
    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    A magic wand is waved tomorrow and gays are granted every single equal legal standing as a married heterosexual couple except marriage would you be happy?

    Separate but equal is not equal.


  • #835
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    You don't cherry pick equality. You don't believe in it.

    And yet in actuality we are cherry picking equality with case in point being this very referendum , we are voting to see if the State will recognise homosexuals as equal.

    If yes then gays are equal, if no then the status quo stays. That is the very definition of cherry picking right there.


  • #836
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I believe in equality, but marriage is between a man and woman thats my belief.

    Question for you which is hypotetical obviously and not trying to be smart.

    A magic wand is waved tomorrow and gays are granted every single equal legal standing as a married heterosexual couple except marriage would you be happy?

    I'm really trying to figure out where you're coming from and understand your point of view but it's extremely difficult.

    As for your question; no. Why would you exclude marriage?


  • #837
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I believe in equality, but marriage is between a man and woman thats my belief.

    Question for you which is hypotetical obviously and not trying to be smart.

    A magic wand is waved tomorrow and gays are granted every single equal legal standing as a married heterosexual couple except marriage would you be happy?
    No. And here are a couple of reason why.

    MrP


  • #838
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    On the right to marriage equality yes.

    But on other equality issues I have already stated my support for equal rights for gays.

    You don't support equality for gay people. You don't support equality for your friends who happen to be gay. You don't support equality for your employees who happen to be gay. You can lie to yourself as much as you like. Everyone with eyes to see and a mind to reason can only conclude that you do not support equality under the law for gay people.


  • #839
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    And yet in actuality we are cherry picking equality with case in point being this very referendum , we are voting to see if the State will recognise homosexuals as equal.

    You don't support equality for gay people. Sorry.


  • #840
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,001 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    @Ctrl Alt Delete: in the light of the fact that there are existing same-sex families here, complete with children, on the same lines of straight families here, except for the difference that the state has a constitutional bar on allowing the same-sex access to civil marriage, can you tell me why you oppose the extension of that right to same-sex couples?

    Same-sex family units are not something theoretical, not something that will come-to-be the future if a change was made to our constitutional version of marriage. They exist now. In the light of that fact, do you think that continuing the access-to-civil-marriage-ban on same-sex parented families is legitimate? What dangers do you envisage for the nation's child-population by equalizing access to civil marriage to same-sex couples on a par with straight couples?


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  • #841
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    Separate but equal is not equal.

    So you are given every legal standing as a heterosexual couple but just not legally allowed become man & man or wife & wife.

    You wouldnt be happy then as it would address 100% of all concerns you would have no ?


This discussion has been closed.
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