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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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Comments

  • #782
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    COYVB wrote: »
    When you're referring to marriage, are you referring to the religious thing, or the legal thing? Because if it's the religious thing, then that's perfectly fine. Most churches define it as between as husband and wife, so if you want to play their game you play by their rules. No qualms there.

    If it's legally though, I find it hard to see why it makes a damned bit of difference to you

    Your right it doesnt make a difference to me but legally as it stands you cannot that is not my doing, it is not solely up to me and it will be decided by the country en masse.

    If it changes afterwards so be it I will respect that also.


  • #783
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Do you not believe people should have autonomy to do what is right for them? I don't think people should smoke and as a vegetarian I don't think people should eat meat but it's not my responsibility to force my views on other people. Everyone should be free to make decisions that are right for them and their family. Your views are irrelevant.

    But yet my right to smoke where I want is currently being limited by law. And there is a difference between a persons right for autonomy for them and right to autonomy for a child (which can and does be challenged legally)
    eviltwin wrote: »
    Your views are irrelevant.

    Choose to call my views irrelevant at your own peril


  • #784
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    If it changes afterwards so be it I will respect that also.

    Why would you respect it if you voted no to equality?


  • #785
    COYVB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Your right it doesnt make a difference to me but legally as it stands you cannot that is not my doing, it is not solely up to me and it will be decided by the country en masse.

    If it changes afterwards so be it I will respect that also.

    Don't you think that, if you actually respected these people as you say you do, you would be more comfortable with voting yes, and therefore giving them the opportunity to have a CHOICE in the matter, than voting no and doing your best to prevent them from having that choice?


  • #786
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    Why would you respect it if you voted no to equality?

    Because that is what usually happens after a referendum. I might disagree with it and I might have voted no but I also respect the majority of people have spoken in a democratic process.


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  • #787
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

    Choose to call my views irrelevant at your own peril

    They are though. This referendum will not determine whether a gay couple can raise a child so using that as an argument is irrelevant.


  • #788
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Your right it doesnt make a difference to me but legally as it stands you cannot that is not my doing, it is not solely up to me and it will be decided by the country en masse.

    If it changes afterwards so be it I will respect that also.

    Well I think you're being very selfish. The outcome won't make any difference to you or your life however it will have a massive impact on my family. It will break my heart if this doesn't pass, more importantly it will be a message to my child that her relationship is second rate . And that will do her and others like her untold damage. It's not her fault she fancies girls. It doesn't change who she is or the kind of parent she will be. A No vote will do huge damage to the gay community but once you're happy eh?


  • #789
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    COYVB wrote: »
    Don't you think that, if you actually respected these people as you say you do, you would be more comfortable with voting yes, and therefore giving them the opportunity to have a CHOICE in the matter, than voting no and doing your best to prevent them from having that choice?

    I'm 100% comfortable with my personal reasons for voting no and I wont be doing my best to defeat the yes side either you wont see me out campaigning for a no vote I will simply cast it on referendum day.


  • #790
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Because I believe a child should be raised by a mother and father

    This issue is entirely separate to the referendum. You voting no and indeed even the failure of the referendum should it happen will have no impact on whether homosexual couples have/adopt children.
    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I believe a marriage should be husband and wife.

    People have been repeatedly trying to get you to elaborate on why. You have consistently failed to do so other than returning to the same invalid point about children.


  • #791
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I'm 100% comfortable with my personal reasons for voting no and I wont be doing my best to defeat the yes side either you wont see me out campaigning for a no vote I will simply cast it on referendum day.

    So you don't want same sex families to be equal to other families. You are 100% comfortable with that?


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  • #792
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    sup_dude wrote: »
    They are though. This referendum will not determine whether a gay couple can raise a child so using that as an argument is irrelevant.

    I'm not using it as an argument I'm using it as the foundation for my belief that a child should be raised by a mother and father and not two people of the same sex.


  • #793
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I'm 100% comfortable with my personal reasons for voting no and I wont be doing my best to defeat the yes side either you wont see me out campaigning for a no vote I will simply cast it on referendum day.

    Wonderful so your friends and employees will still think you believe in their equality under the law while you chose to vote to deny them it? Nice.;)


  • #794
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I'm not using it as an argument I'm using it as the foundation for my belief that a child should be raised by a mother and father and not two people of the same sex.

    So you don't believe a child in a same sex family should have the same protection as another child ?


  • #795
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I'm not using it as an argument I'm using it as the foundation for my belief that a child should be raised by a mother and father and not two people of the same sex.

    But whether you believe this or not, whether it's even true or not, has no impact on SSM or the referendum.


  • #796
    COYVB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I'm 100% comfortable with my personal reasons for voting no and I wont be doing my best to defeat the yes side either you wont see me out campaigning for a no vote I will simply cast it on referendum day.

    By voting no you're doing everything in your power as a member of the electorate to prevent the yes side from winning. You are voicing your complete disagreement that gays be afforded the same rights as non-gays with regards to marriage, despite acknowledging that it doesn't affect you in any way.

    To me, that's not someone who has respect for people


  • #797
    COYVB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    my belief that a child should be raised by a mother and father and not two people of the same sex.

    That's not what the referendum is about


  • #798
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    spikeS wrote: »
    You said two parents are better then one, this is not true and plenty of single parents do a great job raising their kids

    Yes, but imagine what they could do with a full time partner by their side to lighten the load?

    There are loads of great single parents out there doing an excellent job. Nobody is trying to say they aren't good parents, or that they shouldn't be raising their kids.

    It's just that parenting is hard work, and difficult to do on your own. Having a partner to help won't make you a good parent, but will help a good parent to do more for their children than they than possibly could have done otherwise.


  • #799
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Well I think you're being very selfish. The outcome won't make any difference to you or your life however it will have a massive impact on my family. It will break my heart if this doesn't pass, more importantly it will be a message to my child that her relationship is second rate

    . And that will do her and others like her untold damage. It's not her fault she fancies girls. It doesn't change who she is or the kind of parent she will be. A No vote will do huge damage to the gay community but once you're happy eh?

    Example of my point that the topic is so emotive that people wont move from yes or no camp.

    If you teach your child that her relationship is "second rate" then that is your concern not mine. Personally I would never teach a child that regardless of their sexual orientation and would teach them to be proud of who and what they are despite others opinions.

    I would be interested to see how it will do huge damage to the community as a whole?


  • #800
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    COYVB wrote: »
    That's not what the referendum is about

    The wording is proposed to be altered to "Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction as to their sex.”

    I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman only so how is that not what the referendum is about?


  • #801
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Personally I would never teach a child that regardless of their sexual orientation and would teach them to be proud of who and what they are despite others opinions.

    No but you'd vote to keep your child a second class citizen. You'd vote to maintain the legal discrimination on your child?


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  • #802
    COYVB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    The wording is proposed to be altered to "Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction as to their sex.”

    I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman only so how is that not what the referendum is about?

    You're continually making it about children, it's about marriage.

    And you have never once addressed WHY you think marriage should be between a man and a woman only.

    What is it you believe marriage is about? What are the values you place on marriage?


  • #803
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Personally I don't know expect anyone to try change my opinion to be fair this is one these referendums where there will be a very small amount of don't knows.

    Your either firmly in yes or not camp and I'd dare say few from either would be swayed

    Do you think your position is logical or fair?

    You admit to having no particular reason to be against my right to marry, yet you are still planning to vote to deny it to me.

    How is that reasonable or fair? And how can you claim not to be in any way prejudiced if you are opposed to it just because of who I want to marry.

    Have you told your friends that you plan to deny them the right to marry, even if you have no good reason to do so?

    Do you care if they would be hurt by it?


  • #804
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Example of my point that the topic is so emotive that people wont move from yes or no camp.

    If you teach your child that her relationship is "second rate" then that is your concern not mine. Personally I would never teach a child that regardless of their sexual orientation and would teach them to be proud of who and what they are despite others opinions.

    I would be interested to see how it will do huge damage to the community as a whole?

    I have nothing but the upmost respect for my child, her relationship and others like her. I couldn't care less who she dates once she's happy. Society has a chance to publicly say how it views gay relationships. Being told she is equal in every way to a straight couple sends out a message that she doesn't have to hide away anymore. It will give her confidence to be out. She's only a teenager so I do worry about how a public dismissal of her right to marriage will affect her and other young gay children like her. As her parent I tell her every day how proud I am of her and how she should walk tall. But it's still hard when her sexuality is what decides what rights she has. It shouldn't be that way.


  • #805
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I have nothing but the upmost respect for my child, her relationship and others like her. I couldn't care less who she dates once she's happy. Society has a chance to publicly say how it views gay relationships. Being told she is equal in every way to a straight couple sends out a message that she doesn't have to hide away anymore. It will give her confidence to be out. She's only a teenager so I do worry about how a public dismissal of her right to marriage will affect her and other young gay children like her. As her parent I tell her every day how proud I am of her and how she should walk tall. But it's still hard when her sexuality is what decides what rights she has. It shouldn't be that way.

    Can you adopt me?


  • #806
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    No but you'd vote to keep your child a second class citizen. You'd vote to maintain the legal discrimination on your child?

    See you are now getting emotive.

    Tell me what discrimination legal or otherwise is taking place in respect to the child


  • #807
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    See you are now getting emotive.

    Tell me what discrimination legal or otherwise is taking place in respect to the child

    You know full well I was referring to 'your child', as in the hypothetical child you mentioned in the post to which I was replying. Meanwhile if you could address any of the multitude of posters who have inquired about your reasoning it would be appreciated.


  • #808
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    See you are now getting emotive.

    Tell me what discrimination legal or otherwise is taking place in respect to the child

    People getting emotional over an important issue for them or their loved ones. Of course we are emotional. There are posters here who are engaged and who are relying on this referendum to pass in order to take the next step. I can't imagine how frustrating and stressful that must be. Have a bit of empathy and put yourself in their shoes for a minute.


  • #809
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    floggg wrote: »
    Do you think your position is logical or fair?

    It is logical to me yes

    You admit to having no particular reason to be against my right to marry, yet you are still planning to vote to deny it to me.

    And I have the right to vote no just as you have the right to vote yes and grant it to yourselfs.
    floggg wrote: »
    How is that reasonable or fair? And how can you claim not to be in any way prejudiced if you are opposed to it just because of who I want to marry.

    Have you told your friends that you plan to deny them the right to marry, even if you have no good reason to do so?

    Do you care if they would be hurt by it?

    Oh we've had plenty of discussions sometimes heated , sometimes not, they respect my opinion despite not agreeing with it although one actually agrees with me (one of the married ones up North funnily enough).

    You use phrases like I am denying your right and so on, but I am denying you nothing and there is not point in personalising it that way, I am but one person within this country.

    Collectively you are being denied your moral (not currently legal) right to marriage by the State not by me.


  • #810
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,872 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I'm not using it as an argument I'm using it as the foundation for my belief that a child should be raised by a mother and father and not two people of the same sex.

    You're vote would not prevent this.


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  • #811
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,787 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    By right I shouldnt vote atal on this....doesn't ever affect me


    But I always try to vote...so it'll be a yes....cant see any reason to vote no??


    Civil rights issues generally need the support of those which the issue does not effect.


This discussion has been closed.
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