Cronyism and auctions

Mr. teddywinkles · 22-01-2015 06:17PM #1

Just going to make this as concise as possible. Viewed property at the start of last year. Got very interested in property. Rang the associated auctioneer to place bid. Bid 275000.
Property was priced at 315000.
Told my bid was too low.
Vendor looking in the region of 300000. Also told there was a second bidder with a bid of 285000. Auctioneer told me he wasn't high enough as well. Grand, so asked auctioneer if 290000 any better. No still too low.
This all happened over on and off over a couple of weeks. The impression I got was it wasn't being sold for anything less than 300000.
After this point auctioneer did not seem interested in answering my phone calls or messages left for him. Rang about 2 months ago. He told me sale was going through.
Looking up the property price register today. The property was sold for 285000.
I'm a tiny bit pissed off to say the least.
He must be selling it to someone he knows. Is this not totally illegal.

Victor · 23-01-2015 08:48AM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

He must be selling it to someone he knows. Is this not totally illegal.

How do you come to this conclusion?

whomitconcerns · 23-01-2015 09:25AM

So the vendor wanted 300k at start of year and no less. 9/10 months later they agreed to sell to 285k to an interested party. How is this dodgy?

whippet · 23-01-2015 09:49AM

so what your saying is that the house sold for higher than your bid and you think something illegal happened?

Also, sale agreed price is not always the final price. You can go sale agreed and a detailed survey before signing of contract might reveal a problem that needs rectification and this can be negotiated before the sale closes.

Mr. teddywinkles · 23-01-2015 10:14AM

whippet wrote: »

so what your saying is that the house sold for higher than your bid and you think something illegal happened?

Also, sale agreed price is not always the final price. You can go sale agreed and a detailed survey before signing of contract might reveal a problem that needs rectification and this can be negotiated before the sale closes.

I offered more than 285 and was told 300. I was also blanked there after and seem disinterested in dealing with me.
Sry but there's a lot of bs with auctions on property.
He seemed to keep telling me that this person was really interested. If ur that f++kin interest pay the asking price!
House was new build. Not saying there cant be problems with new builds but house seemed sound to me.

Mr. teddywinkles · 23-01-2015 10:17AM

whomitconcerns wrote: »

So the vendor wanted 300k at start of year and no less. 9/10 months later they agreed to sell to 285k to an interested party. How is this dodgy?

Didn't pay 300 for property. It went sale agreed about 3 weeks after I viewed it.
My analogy of this is like being at public auction where everyone can see whoes bidding on the property. Ur there waving ur hand in the air frantically trying to bid and just being ignored by the auctioneer and accepting everyone else's ffs.

Eldarion · 23-01-2015 11:16AM

People are free to sell their assets at any price they wish, to whoever is willing to buy them. Just because you say you bid more than what it eventually sold you feel you had some form of entitlement to that sale?

Maybe the EA or vendors didn't like something about your offer, maybe the other bid was all cash. Or maybe it was eventually sold to a friend of the family with a 5k discount. There's nothing illegal about this at all.

Mr. teddywinkles · 23-01-2015 11:51AM

Eldarion wrote: »

People are free to sell their assets at any price they wish, to whoever is willing to buy them. Just because you say you bid more than what it eventually sold you feel you had some form of entitlement to that sale?

Maybe the EA or vendors didn't like something about your offer, maybe the other bid was all cash. Or maybe it was eventually sold to a friend of the family with a 5k discount. There's nothing illegal about this at all.

So why advertise it if your selling it to family! Sry ur saying my money is not good enough yes ? I don't feel entitled to anything. My point is I was treated like ****. You don't flog people off like that.
This is not the first time this has happened. You say people are entitled to sell their assets to whoever they want. No problem with that bur dont waste my time and patience.

zagmund · 23-01-2015 12:15PM

To answer your original question - "Is this not totally illegal" . . . no, it's not.

You can be upset, annoyed, frustrated, etc . . . but it's not illegal.

z

pwurple · 23-01-2015 12:24PM

This happens all the time. Happened to me, very similar scenario. I offered more, and was refused, than the price the property sold for a few weeks later.

Basically, the estate agent wasn't taking me seriously for some reason. May have been that he didn't think I had the money to back up my offer, or it was the first property I had viewed with particular estate agent, so we had no relationship built up.

I know from selling property as well, the agent will come to you with offers, and opinions on the buyers. Ours came to us with two offers that were identical, and basically said, I have a hunch couple A are more likely to back out of this, go for couple B. So we did.

Jasper79 · 23-01-2015 12:34PM

I think on Property price register for new builds the sale price excludes VAT, which would put the sale price over 300k ?

Mr. teddywinkles · 23-01-2015 12:35PM

pwurple wrote: »

This happens all the time. Happened to me, very similar scenario. I offered more, and was refused, than the price the property sold for a few weeks later.

Basically, the estate agent wasn't taking me seriously for some reason. May have been that he didn't think I had the money to back up my offer, or it was the first property I had viewed with particular estate agent, so we had no relationship built up.

I know from selling property as well, the agent will come to you with offers, and opinions on the buyers. Ours came to us with two offers that were identical, and basically said, I have a hunch couple A are more likely to back out of this, go for couple B. So we did.

Could be the case and that's fair enough.
It is seriously frustrating especially when you have a good chunk of money and need the house for your family. Just being d**ked about with lots of properties now.
Buyers market my b*tt

Ri_Nollaig · 23-01-2015 02:11PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Could be the case and that's fair enough.
It is seriously frustrating especially when you have a good chunk of money and need the house for your family. Just being d**ked about with lots of properties now.
Buyers market my b*tt

...who ever said it was a buyers market?
You are about two years too late on that one.

I had similar problems too. Its not a fun experience dealing with Auctioneers but no choice really. The property price register has removed some element of the secrecy behind the whole process but only a bit. All I can say is you have no idea what happened between the sale agreed and the final exchange of contracts. There could have been any number of reasons for the price to drop or maybe he really did just not like you and never presented your bid to the vendor, its not nice but nothing you can do about it.

What really annoyed me was every place I looked at, and properties that had been for sale for 2+ years, always had an existing bids that was just about 10% less then asking, strange that.

seamus · 23-01-2015 02:18PM

Some agents are just pretty poor. There's one agent in Dublin that we know as the most clueless shower of idiots. Properties always priced way too high, not properly advertised, never return a call when you ring them, agents get downright pissy when you don't automatically make an offer after arranging a viewing.

It wouldn't surprise me if the agent just forgot about you or couldn't be arsed ringing you and never brought your bids to the seller. Then a few months later a new bidder comes in @ 285 and it's the first bid they've actually heard so they accept.

The sellers are also free to choose to sell to whomever they want. The guy who went in at 285 may have been a friend of a friend. When they realised they weren't getting their 300, they gave the friend of a friend first dibs on the property rather than the guy who harassed the estate agent for weeks

Mr. teddywinkles · 23-01-2015 03:23PM

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

...who ever said it was a buyers market?
You are about two years too late on that one.

I had similar problems too. Its not a fun experience dealing with Auctioneers but no choice really. The property price register has removed some element of the secrecy behind the whole process but only a bit. All I can say is you have no idea what happened between the sale agreed and the final exchange of contracts. There could have been any number of reasons for the price to drop or maybe he really did just not like you and never presented your bid to the vendor, its not nice but nothing you can do about it.

What really annoyed me was every place I looked at, and properties that had been for sale for 2+ years, always had an existing bids that was just about 10% less then asking, strange that.

Think ill have to bribe the next auctioneer because its looking that way. Btw its still a buyers market in some areas of the country. It amazes me people say property and automatically think Dublin

The_Morrigan · 23-01-2015 03:52PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Think ill have to bribe the next auctioneer because its looking that way. Btw its still a buyers market in some areas of the country. It amazes me people say property and automatically think Dublin

You can't really start spouting about how you've been treated badly and suggesting that the auctioneer is acting illegally, if you're then going to make a post like this.

Mr. teddywinkles · 23-01-2015 04:31PM

The_Morrigan wrote: »

You can't really start spouting about how you've been treated badly and suggesting that the auctioneer is acting illegally, if you're then going to make a post like this.

Sry I'm just a bit pissy today. The thing that bugs me is can anyone safely say that their is absolutely no shenanigans in this area. Think there needs to be a lot more transparency in this area.

ted1 · 23-01-2015 04:47PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

I offered more than 285 and was told 300. I was also blanked there after and seem disinterested in dealing with me.
Sry but there's a lot of bs with auctions on property.
He seemed to keep telling me that this person was really interested. If ur that f++kin interest pay the asking price!
House was new build. Not saying there cant be problems with new builds but house seemed sound to me.

There is VAT payable on new builds which is omitted on the Property price register, now don't you look silly.

Jasper79 · 23-01-2015 04:52PM

ted1 wrote: »

There is VAT payable on new builds which is omitted on the Property price register, now don't you look silly.

that's what I thought too, so at 13.5% would mean the house sold for €323k .

zagmund · 23-01-2015 05:00PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Sry I'm just a bit pissy today. The thing that bugs me is can anyone safely say that their is absolutely no shenanigans in this area. Think there needs to be a lot more transparency in this area.

Who's saying there's no shenanigans?

Estate agents work for the vendor. Their job is to keep the vendor happy, not to keep potential purchasers happy.

z

Ri_Nollaig · 23-01-2015 06:41PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Think ill have to bribe the next auctioneer because its looking that way. Btw its still a buyers market in some areas of the country. It amazes me people say property and automatically think Dublin

Who mentioned Dublin?

I was trying to buy in Cork

Mr. teddywinkles · 23-01-2015 06:48PM

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

Who mentioned Dublin?

I was trying to buy in Cork

That's grand but didn't mention where I was buying either. Why is the vat added on just new builds?

gaius c · 23-01-2015 08:35PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

So why advertise it if your selling it to family! Sry ur saying my money is not good enough yes ? I don't feel entitled to anything. My point is I was treated like ****. You don't flog people off like that.
This is not the first time this has happened. You say people are entitled to sell their assets to whoever they want. No problem with that bur dont waste my time and patience.

It's quite common actually. One sibling needs to buy the other out and the fairest way to assess the market value is to actually put it on the market and use some dupes...sorry bidders to help them correctly value the property.

ted1 · 23-01-2015 09:53PM

Jasper79 wrote: »

that's what I thought too, so at 13.5% would mean the house sold for €323k .

Yes that's correct

ted1 · 23-01-2015 09:55PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

That's grand but didn't mention where I was buying either. Why is the vat added on just new builds?

Because VAT had already being paid on second hand homes.

Victor · 23-01-2015 10:33PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

That's grand but didn't mention where I was buying either. Why is the vat added on just new builds?

VAT is added to 'improved' properties. http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/property/

Mr. teddywinkles · 23-01-2015 11:09PM

Victor wrote: »

VAT is added to 'improved' properties. http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/property/

Thanks for info. So I can calm down now

custom_build · 23-01-2015 11:31PM

When I was selling my apartment a few years ago I sold it to an under bidder as I was advised that the higher bidder wasn't good to deal with and would be trouble.

When I went on to buy a site with another auctioneer I was outbid but the vender accepted my bid as I was a cash buyer, both deals went through without a hitch.

I don't believe it's "cronyism" I think its just good business sense.

SteM · 24-01-2015 02:13PM

In the current market, if you're going to bid 275k on a place that eventually sells for 323k then you're automatically going to get on the wrong side of estate agents imho. They're just not going to take you seriously.

Cronyism and auctions

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