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It’s complicated: the truth about women and porn

  • 21-01-2015 09:51AM
    #1
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Tanya Sweeney had an article in yesterday's Irish Times.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/it-s-complicated-the-truth-about-women-and-porn-1.2065868

    There were a couple of parts that struck me. This for instance:
    The problem with the current discourse surrounding porn is that it implies that men and women think of sex in very different ways: that men prefer animalistic, purely physical rutting, while women prefer a more connective, sensitive sexual experience; that hardcore porn is a boys’ club and women prefer the “safer” confines of Vaseline-on-the-lens erotica. That’s simply not the case.

    This tallies with my experience, but I have been told in the past that I'm different. That I think of sex more like men do. I suppose I sort of accepted that as truth, but I'm questioning it again.

    I remember seeing porn in my early adulthood, and to be frank I found it disturbing and gross. Looking back, it was really too much too soon, and I didn't know how to look for milder things. I wonder do a lot of woman, when met with porn-actresses wincing faces, just close the book on porn.

    Personally I came back to it via literature and comics and some gentler websites.



    The second part that interested me was:
    What’s rarely said about these magazines of yore is that they promoted what Cosmopolitan.com’s sex editor Anna Breslaw describes as “creepy, servile blowjob magic”. The focus was largely blowing a male partner’s mind with technique, tips and trickery. Ergo, porn’s not the only way in which women have been told that in the bedroom, the man comes first.

    I've never been a Cosmo woman, but there was a magazine called More when I was younger that I used to buy, which was somewhere between just seventeen (my teenage bible) and Cosmo. The sex topics in More were broadly the same: pleasing the man first or only.

    At the time I was just happy to have a magazine that spoke about sex, but looking back, I can see the message I was being fed.

    So loungers, what's your relationship like with pornography?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    I like the idea of porn more than I like actual porn.

    As a couple, we like to occasionally watch some together, but I find that the porn available on French tv (we watch that because it's convenient) is by and large geared towards men - even just for a silly reason that the men are not terrible attractive, while the women are much nicer looking. The women make lots of noise but actually rarely obviously orgasm, everything is geared towards the man's orgasm.

    I'm not terribly keen on the "detailed anatomy lesson" side of porn either.

    Personally, I like a good believable story, and I have a good imagination, so I actually find the fantasy I make up in my own head based on a (non-porn) film I've watched or book I've read a lot more erotic.


  • #3
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I don't know. I'm not Irish so I might have some access to stuff earlier than people here. I remember when we were ten and collecting paper in school for recycling and we went through a whole pile of nudie magazines that someone gave us. We actually made an album during breaks in school. :D Also having RTL meant that we (my brother and I) had good access to soft porn every time our parents went out for dinner. It was something that more made us giggle than really turn on. TBH if I watch porn it is more watching bits and then switching off. I would get bored watching the whole thing and the soft porn doesn't do much for me.

    I don't find it a big deal, it is something I like every so often but could also easily live without if I had to. I never thought about porn in such a detailed way, for me it is something that is there if you want to watch it.


  • #4
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I like porn and have no problem admitting it. I like different porn to my husband who has a thing for lesbians like most men :rolleyes: I need male input. I've an interest in bdsm which he doesn't really share either. I don't need a story as such, just some basic info on who is who and what is what. I also prefer my men and women to look normal. Ridiculous fake breasts and ultra muscular guys don't do it for me at all. I tend to use porn mostly on my own, we don't use it that much as a couple.


  • #5
    Neyite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,946 ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    I agree with and totally identify with Ivy. I like the idea of it, but find it disappointing in reality.

    I find my mind wanders, and not in a good way, when I watch mainstream stuff. Usually wondering if that's a pain grimace or pleasure, idly pondering that if he keeps doing that, she'll end up with cystitis or thrush. Or getting distracted with the sight of a scary long-taloned manicure near tender bits. Or why her boobs don't move. Or wondering when he will ever stop thrusting.

    So I just feel like an auld tutting granny and that totally kills the mood. :pac:

    I've read a couple of erotica and prefer that, but a lot of what I've come across is clumsily written.


  • #6
    ShazGV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭ShazGV


    I generally only watch porn when I need a quick fix, so to speak. Not too often though because pretty much every time I do, I find myself getting distracted like Neyite!


    When I read erotica, the vast majority of the time it comes in the form of fan fiction. There's some amazingly talented unpublished authors online, and you can generally find anything to suit your mood. I've attempted to read some published work but a lot of it is so badly written or so cliched that I just have to stop reading (and I hate leaving a book unfinished). Alice Clayton is one of the better ones I've come across, but that's mostly down to the fact that she's good with funny dialogue.


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  • #7
    TheBeardedLady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    Tbh, I find it takes me ages to find something that appeals to me on the free sites, so don't watch it that often. Most it makes me wince or laugh or bores me.

    What do I look for in porn? Good-looking men: the women are almost always attractive but the men rarely are. A bit of a plot, some foreplay of some sort and not just straight into the action - I like some build up and a bit of a back story, even if it's really cheesy. Variety of moves and not just a 10 minute video of repetitive thrusting (ouch!) or a blow job. Less fake groaning and constant dirty talk throughout when it's very clear the woman couldn't possibly be enjoying herself doing that particular move - I find it irritating, unbelievable and silly.

    I don't like porn with very plastic-looking women and men. And I don't like to see the woman in pain or any kind of torture or really violent stuff where it's obvious the woman doesn't want to be there. I suppose I imagine myself in the woman's position when I watch it and would never want to be in that kind of situation. And I simply don't like seeing people suffering.


  • #8
    ShazGV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭ShazGV


    TheBeardedLady wrote: »
    Less fake groaning and constant dirty talk throughout when it's very clear the woman couldn't possibly be enjoying herself doing that particular move - I find it irritating, unbelievable and silly.

    I don't like porn with very plastic-looking women and men. And I don't like to see the woman in pain or any kind of torture or really violent stuff where it's obvious the woman doesn't want to be there. I suppose I imagine myself in the woman's position when I watch it and would never want to be in that kind of situation. And I simply don't like seeing people suffering.

    That's actually what it pretty much boils down to for me - if the woman looks like she's enjoying herself, I'm a hell of a lot more likely to be enjoying it too.


  • #9
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    I have to say I don't visit the free video sites very often. Even the ads on them can be repulsive. There is very nice porn out there though, if you can figure out where to look.

    I've found that tumblr can be a good source of sex-positive porn. Where you don't have to worry about seeing something that makes you wince! It's mostly photography, but there is the odd video. And in general the men are muuuuuch better looking than mainstream porn.

    There are cool erotic comics by artists like Jess Fink, too.

    There's no bigger turn off than porn where one or more of those involved clearly isn't enjoying it. I don't think I'm asking too much of porn actors when I want them to make me believe that they fancy each other!


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm probably going to be in a minority of one when I say that porn doesn't appeal to me. I know plenty of women like it and enjoy it as part of their own self satisfaction or as part of a shared sex life, and yes, I know there are many kinds of porn (because someone is bound to say that I just haven't found the sort I like) and no, I'm not repressed or inhibited and I have all the normal urges to enjoy and experiment with sex (because the charge of being prudish is often thrown around when someones tastes are outside the mainstream). Telling me to find some sub genre I like is probably like telling a seven year old that they just haven't found the right variety of brussel sprout to love. Like the seven year old, I'm not likely to find it, but I've still had people tell me that I must be riddled with guilt, or ashamed or somehow repressed, or somehow lacking in imagination (if only they knew!) because I don't like porn. They don't pull out the judgements if I say I don't like pizza though, so it feels a bit reverse-judgemental.

    I get too engaged with the actors. I look at their faces and wonder if they're silently composing the weeks shopping list, if they're going through the motions with a particular bill being ticked off some mental list with the money for the job at hand (pun intended), I wonder if they're coerced, I wonder if they're enjoying it. I don't like the amateur porn for the same reason, I wonder what's going through the participants heads (assuming it's not the penis of the guy behind!), if one of them was keener than the other, if anyone was persuaded...

    Now, I'm well aware that many choose to seek employment in the porn industry, or amateur actors and couples enjoy the voyeuristic aspect of putting their sex lives on the internet, and I absolutely, definitely, 100% do not judge anyone for their choices in the sex lives - why would I? It has nothing to do with me.

    But, it's just not for me. It breaks the moment and brings something other into an intimate experience, that to me is about two people. I know everyone else is different, different people want different things from sex, even in the space of the same day and with the same person or people and that's fine for them.

    Being indifferent to porn, and wanting sex to be within a caring relationship is fine too though. In an increasingly liberated world where we rightly rail against the machines of conformity and repression, of guilt and shame, of stereotypes and expectation, sometimes its good to remind ourselves that choices work every way, and that not liking something is ok too.


  • #11
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,490 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Any that I have seen has just been fake fake fake. The women obviously don't come... the cum in face shots I find disgusting and disrespectful. I'm sure there is better stuff out there but I dont want to look at any more bad stuff to find good stuff. I think its horrible, and cannot, for the life of me understand how men get off, never mind addicted to this rubbish. And as for female ejaculation. Lololol. I genuinely do worry about young men seeing so much of this stuff before ever being with a woman.

    In theory it'd be more appealing if featuring hot people who actually fancied each other and the orgasms were real, but I ain't gonna go looking for it.

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  • #12
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I actually read a very fascinating article from a set of some amateurish porn movie and the main problem was getting men who we're not 'camera shy'. Anyway I find that kind of nonsense (or reports from sex fairs etc) way more interesting than porn itself.


  • #13
    seenitall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭seenitall


    When I was in my teens (sheltered upbringing, and this was about 20 years ago, so, before the interwebz), I saw my first bit of porn with some friends. Must have been on one of the naughty TV channels. There was a full-screen shot of a woman's vulva as she was being given oral. All I could think of was - childbirth. pacman.gif How is a whole baby supposed to come out of there, if THAT's what our vaginas look like even when our legs are open that much? confused.png (Obviously, had never done any bit of self-exploration in front of a mirror, either! - I just thought things... open up more, somehow...) Seriously scary stuff. It left me entirely perplexed as to what exactly am I supposed to get off to.

    Lately, my boyfriend has been trying to get me into porn (mostly amateur porn, and all above board, "nice" stuff), with equally unimpressive results. I've tried and tried, but nothing doing. The horn just doesn't happen. It's about as exciting as watching two strangers having dinner together. I feel no connection to any of it, whether sexual, emotional, mental. Nothing. The best I could muster was appreciating the prettiness of the girl, if she's pretty, and so on.

    I would consider myself a very sexual person. Our sex life is important to me, and sex in general is important to me. I have been completely competent in sorting myself out for a very long time now, as well. It just so happens that it's my imagination supplying the pleasure, and not porn.

    Good to read I'm not alone. :)


  • #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    seenitall wrote: »

    Good to read I'm not alone. :)

    A while ago there was a 'Do you watch porn' type thread in AH, and one girl said she didn't - the vast majority did - and she was rounded on and derided as being a repressed prude, which was pretty judgmental and I chose not to share that I didn't watch porn after reading the comments she got.

    I think it's important not just to acknowledge that women can have a positive relationship with porn, but that it doesn't make you anti-sex if you don't find it appealing. No one should ever feel they 'should' do anything when it comes to sex, it's too personal and individual.

    Same with ONS's, no one should be judged or shamed because they enjoy them, but the same holds true if they're just not your thing either. You'd be surprised how many people throw out the prude card when someones choices don't reflect their own.

    ETA: There's no evidence of that on this thread though!


  • #15
    seenitall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Yup Candie, and equally, the other way around! My bf loves porn, and I'm all for him getting some of his kicks that way, too. He knows well I'm not a prude, and that's all that matters. :)


  • #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    seenitall wrote: »
    Yup Candie, and equally, the other way around! My bf loves porn, and I'm all for him getting some of his kicks that way, too. He knows well I'm not a prude, and that's all that matters. :)

    Yeah, I've been in a relationship where the ex bf watched porn and it never bothered me. I certainly never felt insecure or belittled by him watching it, which seems to happen some girls.


  • #17
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    I much prefer the literature stuff myself, though finding stuff that is well written can be difficult. I think it's much easier to insert yourself and people you have a genuine attraction to into situations that you read about rather than ones you watch. That I find much more appealing than watching random people banging away, though I understand why people can enjoy that.


  • #18
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,490 ✭✭✭✭fits


    While we're on the subject, I constantly hear the refrain that 50shades is so badly written (I agree), the story is terrible, and there's way better stuff out there. Eh... where?

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  • #19
    FairytaleGirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭FairytaleGirl


    As a lesbian who watched a fair bit of porn when I was single - I was constantly disappointed.
    Firstly the nails - CRINGE. Any lesbian will tell you the dangers of long nails plus vagina.
    Secondly - the spitting in place of eh ... Wetness - NO. Just no.
    Lesbian porn is so off putting - so obviously fake. And for the most part completely unrealistic.
    I prefer well written erotica - one million percent better :D


  • #20
    Faith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,661 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    On the subject of erotica, I recently visited a very well know literature erotica site (geddit?) and rather than wasting time, I sorted by highest rating. I was pretty horrified to see that, as far as I was willing to scroll down, 95% of the most read stories were incest porn :confused: :eek:. That's not my thing at all. When I tried to find something in an unrelated genre, all the writing was as poor as 50 Shades.

    So I'll repeat the question, where the hell is good erotica found?!

    I also like porn in theory, but unless I'm super turned on and only using it as a very quick means to an end, in reality it's always cringeworthy and boring (in my experience so far).


  • #21
    ShazGV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭ShazGV


    If you're willing to delve into fan fiction (in my experience, this is where you're gonna find the best stuff) then check out www.archiveofourown.org.

    There's also a graphic novel of mini comics aimed at women called Smut Peddler - there are only two volumes so far but I have ebook versions of both & they're great.

    As for actual novels, I'm lost, haven't found a good one yet! There is a small publishing house recently set up (last year or the year before) called Interlude Press that looks to have some good books but only a few published so far & I haven't read any of them yet.


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  • #22
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    ShazGV wrote: »
    There's also a graphic novel of mini comics aimed at women called Smut Peddler - there are only two volumes so far but I have ebook versions of both & they're great.

    I love smut peddler.

    Like Faith, I found the erotic literature website a disappointment. It was difficult to find something where I wasn't cringing at the grammar or poor phrasing.

    There's a series of books of short stories called "Wicked Words" that I found really good. They were mostly very well-written with believable characters.


  • #23
    beks101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    If something is a true reflection of real-life sex and two people getting lost in themselves and genuinely enjoying one another's bodies, I'll probably be into it.

    But generally mainstream porn is the direct opposite of that IME. It's not an authentic sexual experience and the furthest thing to 'sexy' I can think of - fake tan, fake tits, fake nails, fake sounds, fake orgasm, fake scenario where some porn actress is being paid to look like she's enjoying it and the dude is getting paid to jackhammer her in all kinds of awkward positions and it all looks a bit uncomfortable and distressing. I'm visualizing the 'right, let's try that again' directors cuts and the various production techniques and thinking "how sore must her throat be after shrieking her way through that particular scene from 12 different camera angles?" etc

    If I was going to watch something, I'd be far more likely to stick on the amateur stuff where it's not about this big performance for the camera and all the various OTT melodramatic banshee wailing and laughably bad script-writing that goes with that.


  • #24
    Neyite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,946 ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Lol at jackhammer :pac: That's exactly what it looks like to me.


  • #25
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    For me porn is just so unrealistic. When I watch it I'm just thinking there's no way that's comfortable why are you pretending and making all those noises just to please him. It's always like the womans purpose in these videos is to be the mans play thing as he picks her up and flings her into all sorts of uncomfortable positions! I wish the women would take control sometimes and it wasn't so focused on the men as Becks said "jackhammering" into the women. The fake sounds really turn me off but that seems to appeal to men.
    I think it's because we as women know it's fake whereas men have no clue and think well she's really enjoying that isn't she!


  • #26
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Oh come on, men are not complete morons. I certainly never dated one that had ideas like that.


  • #27
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,005 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Like others, I like the idea of porn but the reality is often more disturbing than stimulating. I do watch it regularly and I've never had objections to boyfriends watching it (all the better if we watch together!).

    There's a few standbys that I know will get me off without anything completely mood dousing happening - like a girl being spat at, or ejaculated all over when she clearly wasn't expecting it, or looking terrified (or worse, completely dead eyed) as she's being throttled.

    And I refuse to watch those where women are shown from every angle but the video has been carefully edited/shot to ensure that you never see the man's face. Euch, or the ones where she apparently doesn't know she's being filmed.

    I like amateur ones where the couple of both genuinely getting off. Ero lit is good too but yeah, what is with all of the incest??

    Im so glad women watching porn isn't seen as a huge taboo anymore (though I did have one boyfriend express shock that a woman would have an interest in it...)


  • #28
    ancapailldorcha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,375 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's something I use, but only rarely.

    There's an awful of it I just don't get; the "jackhammering", obviously fake moaning, dialogue, the endings. Any sex appeal dies after a few minutes watching and it just becomes mindless, mechanical nonsense. Some of it looks just brutal for the poor woman.

    It's a fairly diverse genre (?) and I've only seen some of the mainstream American stuff but it gets real old real fast. I've no idea how someone would even consider paying for, never mind getting addicted to it.
    anna080 wrote: »
    I think it's because we as women know it's fake whereas men have no clue and think well she's really enjoying that isn't she!

    I imagine anyone who sincerely enjoys being banged on like a drum for 30 minutes straight would constitute an infinitesimal minority of people if they even exist.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #29
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Oh come on, men are not complete morons. I certainly never dated one that had ideas like that.

    I've known some guys who've wanted to try positions that they've obviously seen in porn and I've had to stop them and point out that if he keeps going I'm going to wind up in hospital with a broken neck.


  • #30
    Neyite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,946 ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I imagine anyone who sincerely enjoys being banged on like a drum for 30 minutes straight would constitute an infinitesimal minority of people if they even exist.

    See, again, its focusing on what a man finds pleasurable.

    Most men would like that part drawn out as long as possible (and it also gives the viewer time to catch up so there is a finale for them at the same time as on screen) But for women, that kind of thing usually results in soreness, mild bruising, leg cramps, chafing etc, so those are the things that spring to mind when I see it rather than getting pleasure.

    Let's say that gentle tugging on testicles is a massive turn on for the woman. Its nice for a while, but thirty minutes of tugging getting increasingly more vigorous would have a man wincing. That's what I see as a comparable situation.

    What is far more worrying is that increasingly, young men losing their virginity have viewed porn and think that good sex must be like this - 20 mins of deep throat, 30 mins of pounding in varied positions involving female contortions , a bit of anal, then come on her face. Or the men who now view pubic hair as disgusting and unhygienic, and a turn off because they rarely see it in porn.


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  • #31
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Oh come on, men are not complete morons. I certainly never dated one that had ideas like that.

    You'd be surprised. Some men see hardcore scenes from porn and try act it out in real life, the only thing is it doesn't translate to real life. Porn is a fantasy it's not real, nor should it be perceived as being real.


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