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Irish IQ Lower than some other countries :)

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Eramen wrote: »
    IQ has a correlation with a lot of things, from what job you will work, how much you will earn per annum, how many kids you will have, to even what your potential lifespan will be. Some jobs around the globe in fact require an IQ test, because of these numerous correlations.

    I tend to put stock in their accuracy.


    The level of education attained and amount earned by your parents also correlates with those things. Being vegetarian correlates with higher IQ iirc. I'm trying not to say that thing that people say on the internet all the time, but things which correlate with each other often do so because they each have a causal relation to some shared third factor rather than a causal relationship with each other.

    I wouldn't dismiss IQ tests (I mean, I wouldn't think too many thicks score 120+), but I wouldn't put too much stock in them. Someone less intelligent than me who's taken several internet IQ tests over the past week could beat me because I haven't taken any (internet or proper) IQ test in years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,344 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    This IQ seems to equate to richer countries being top which frankly is just stupid.

    iQ tests themselves dont measure intelligence.

    They about as useful a guide to intelligence as hair colour.

    The 'study' doesn't suggest that it's anything more than poinless

    No need to get the auld knickers in a knot over it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭Westernyelp


    It just means I'm more above average than I thought. :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,116 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I would have thought Ireland would be somewhere in the middle of the developed nations.

    What would people think if Ireland was way out in front or way behind?


  • Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I hereby apologize for bringing the side down. I do so LOVE answering questionnaires and studies when they come about. I love the little boxes and as Arlo guthrie says in Alices Restrurant from group W "I had fun playing with the pencils".


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Letree


    The level of education attained and amount earned by your parents also correlates with those things. Being vegetarian correlates with higher IQ iirc. I'm trying not to say that thing that people say on the internet all the time, but things which correlate with each other often do so because they each have a causal relation to some shared third factor rather than a causal relationship with each other.

    I wouldn't dismiss IQ tests (I mean, I wouldn't think too many thicks score 120+), but I wouldn't put too much stock in them. Someone less intelligent than me who's taken several internet IQ tests over the past week could beat me because I haven't taken any (internet or proper) IQ test in years.

    I would guess countries that place a high value and spend a lot of time on mathematics based subjects would do quite well. Our kids waste a massive amount of time on a dead language and religion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Eramen


    I would have thought Ireland would be somewhere in the middle of the developed nations.

    What would people think if Ireland was way out in front or way behind?


    Another poster was correct when he said that IQ can't really be applied to political areas.

    This is because IQ is more tied to human biology rather than geographic area. Age, sex, ethnic group, health etc have bigger impacts and are more important factors on IQ/intelligence.

    Ireland has a sizable portion of partial pre-indo-European people (aboriginal Europeans) located especially in the West of the country, as does Northern Scotland.

    We are slightly less genetically related to our European brethren and intelligence is one area that manifests as an outward difference. Whereas the European IQ average is concentrated around 97-102 we hover at 94-96.

    One can also see by phenotype the partial aboriginal origins of our people in about 20-25% of our population. It's very interesting stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61 ✭✭MissyFit


    Possibly due to the fluoride in our water supply


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,196 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    So it would seem that research does indicate that IQ varies around the globe and the jibe "thick paddy" may have just a grain of fact behind it.

    Personaly having a daughter intending on going on to uni...

    I assume her mother is English?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Letree


    I'm quite surprised at Israel being 95. There was a study done years ago where ashkenazi jews were said to have an average IQ of 115.

    It would really need to be done on a very large sample of students from each country.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Eramen wrote: »
    IQ is more tied to human biology rather than geographic area.

    Bollocks. Utter bollocks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Letree


    Eramen wrote: »
    Another poster was correct when he said that IQ can't really be applied to political areas.

    This is because IQ is more tied to human biology rather than geographic area. Age, sex, ethnic group, health etc have bigger impacts and are more important factors on IQ/intelligence.

    Ireland has a sizable portion of partial pre-indo-European people (aboriginal Europeans) located especially in the West of the country, as does Northern Scotland.

    We are slightly less genetically related to our European brethren and intelligence is one area that manifests as an outward difference. Whereas the European IQ average is concentrated around 97-102 we hover at 94-96.

    One can also see by phenotype the partial aboriginal origins of our people in about 20-25% of our population. It's very interesting stuff.

    Where did these people come from and what reason would you have for believing they were less intelligent to start with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭stretchdoe


    As a redditor with an IQ of 210, i'm confident in my assertion that IQ tests are a load of me hoop.

    Nevertheless, a tip of the ol' dora to the OP and all who sail within this thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Eramen wrote: »
    Haha, the equality god is a lie.

    I have no idea what an 'equality god' is.
    A study (1999) by Capron and Duyme of French children adopted between the ages of four and six examined the influence of socioeconomic status (SES). The children's IQs initially averaged 77, putting them near retardation. Most were abused or neglected as infants, then shunted from one foster home or institution to the next. Nine years later after adoption, when they were on average 14 years old, they retook the IQ tests, and all of them did better. The amount they improved was directly related to the adopting family's socioeconomic status. "Children adopted by farmers and laborers had average IQ scores of 85.5; those placed with middle-class families had average scores of 92. The average IQ scores of youngsters placed in well-to-do homes climbed more than 20 points, to 98.

    David L. Kirp (July 23, 2006). "After the Bell Curve" . New York Times Magazine.

    If biology was such a determining factor environment would have little influence on IQ. Frankly, trying to apply IQ to large populations and claiming that it is inherited has no scientific usefulness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    Bollocks. Utter bollocks.
    I don't know whether intelligence has a biological component, but it seems credible. If genetic material can be translated into proteins that code for height, skin, eye colour and bone density I don't see why they shouldn't necessarily code for proteins in the brain that determine one's analytical and reasoning skills, or ability to process and retain information.

    It's not 'bollox' just because it isn't popular.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭route9


    Me not do IQ test good? That's unpossible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Eramen


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    I have no idea what an 'equality god' is.


    It means that we humans are diverse only by virtue of our genes, and that differences in body, mind and culture stem from the biological divergences of the assorted peoples of the world. Biology is important, extremely important.

    'Equality god' is the modern superstition that all people are exactly the same at all times, in all places, effectively giving the finger to Darwin/evolution.

    Equality is not possible. Only hierarchy is possible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,454 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Well Irish people have chosen these people to represent them
    - Charlie Haughey
    - John Bruton
    - Bertie Ahern
    - Brian Cowan
    - Enda Kenny

    how could you accuse such a people of stupidity?

    Bit harsh on Mr Bruton there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,196 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Eramen wrote: »
    It means that we humans are diverse only by virtue of our genes, and that differences in body, mind and culture stem from the biological divergences of the assorted peoples of the world. Biology is important, extremely important.

    'Equality god' is the modern superstition that all people are exactly the same at all times, in all places, effectively giving the finger to Darwin/evolution.

    Equality is not possible. Only hierarchy is possible.

    "Equality" is what the dumb start bawling for when the rest of us have subdued all the sabre-tooth tigers ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,116 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Eramen wrote: »
    Another poster was correct when he said that IQ can't really be applied to political areas.

    This is because IQ is more tied to human biology rather than geographic area. Age, sex, ethnic group, health etc have bigger impacts and are more important factors on IQ/intelligence.

    Ireland has a sizable portion of partial pre-indo-European people (aboriginal Europeans) located especially in the West of the country, as does Northern Scotland.

    We are slightly less genetically related to our European brethren and intelligence is one area that manifests as an outward difference. Whereas the European IQ average is concentrated around 97-102 we hover at 94-96.

    One can also see by phenotype the partial aboriginal origins of our people in about 20-25% of our population. It's very interesting stuff.

    I would like to add to your first paragraph. You forgot the cultural side. If your culture values education and intellectual stimulation, then individuals will tend to be better able for IQ tests and life.

    Pick a group who don't value traditional education like travellers and you will find they score lower on IQ tests. They might have the gray matter but if they never learn to read they will be more likely to berrepresented in the tarmacking industry than the medical industry.

    The rest of your post is fascinating and I would like to learn more about it


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Bootros Bootros


    Eramen wrote: »
    Another poster was correct when he said that IQ can't really be applied to political areas.

    This is because IQ is more tied to human biology rather than geographic area. Age, sex, ethnic group, health etc have bigger impacts and are more important factors on IQ/intelligence.

    Ireland has a sizable portion of partial pre-indo-European people (aboriginal Europeans) located especially in the West of the country, as does Northern Scotland.

    We are slightly less genetically related to our European brethren and intelligence is one area that manifests as an outward difference. Whereas the European IQ average is concentrated around 97-102 we hover at 94-96.

    One can also see by phenotype the partial aboriginal origins of our people in about 20-25% of our population. It's very interesting stuff.

    Those IQ tests by Lynn et al. were pretty flawed. Ireland is in about the high mid OECD rankings for 15 year olds in the PISA rankings. Which translated to IQ would be > 100. ( since we are ahead of the UK).

    Furthermore the west tends to do better. Poorest performing parts of ireland are North Dublin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Eramen wrote: »
    It means that we humans are diverse only by virtue of our genes, and that differences in body, mind and culture stem from the biological divergences of the assorted peoples of the world.

    Rubbish. Where are you getting this stuff from?
    'Equality god' is the modern superstition that all people are exactly the same at all times, in all places, effectively giving the finger to Darwin/evolution.

    I just googled 'equality god' and saw nothing of substance to back up this 'equality god' shite. The first 8 or 9 sources were the bible. Did you make it up yourself?
    'modern superstition that all people are exactly the same at all times, in all places, effectively giving the finger to Darwin/evolution.

    Who makes this claim? How the hell does it relate to the work of Darwin?
    Equality is not possible. Only hierarchy is possible.

    What does this even mean?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Eramen


    Those IQ tests by Lynn et al. were pretty flawed. Ireland is in about the high mid OECD rankings for 15 year olds in the PISA rankings. Which translated to IQ would be > 100. ( since we are ahead of the UK).

    Furthermore the west tends to do better. Poorest performing parts of ireland are North Dublin.


    Of course. Education and nutrition would also have an influence (though I'd suggest not a dominant one for the latter). Also remember our population is absorbing vast quantities of central and eastern European peoples, so I'd expect them to make an additional difference.

    For further research I'd suggest looking at Latin America and SE Asia to see how biology may be a dominant factor, as they have decent education and nutrition levels. Also, things like brain size and cranial capacity have even been related to IQ, so their will be differences even between Irish people.

    There's an infamous book called 'The Bell Curve' that examines both hereditary and environmental factors on IQ and the structure of society.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    This old chestnut again. Google around a bit about the methodology before commenting!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 760 ✭✭✭Desolation Of Smug


    Did you intend to make a point?

    Yeah. This generation are thick, by whatever yard-stick you care to use.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Bootros Bootros


    Eramen wrote: »
    Of course. Education and nutrition would also have an influence (though I'd suggest not a dominant one for the latter). Also remember our population is absorbing vast quantities of central and eastern European peoples, so I'd expect them to make an additional difference.

    For further research I'd suggest looking at Latin America and SE Asia to see how biology may be a dominant factor, as they have decent education and nutrition levels. Also, things like brain size and cranial capacity have even been related to IQ, so their will be differences even between Irish people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

    I understand bell curves. I've read Murray and Lynn ( this map is based on IQ and the Wealth of Nations).

    The Eastern Europeans would have to be all way> 100 to have compensated for a country which is say 94. That's not what the map shows. As they make up a small % of the population. Also immigration is not just from the EU ( but in part from places in that map lower in IQ than ireland) and could harm PISA education standards if non-native readers.

    You missed my secondary point about the poor Neanderthals out West. In terms of university participation they beat richer parts of northern Dublin.

    ( in fact were we to retrofit the pisa results back to IQ ireland would be 105 i think. Just behind Finland in reading. Ahead of the smarter Europes)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    So apparently africans are real stupid! Hmm maybe just maybe these IQ tests are biased and levels of education obviously have a huge influence on scores. They are not a useful measure of intelligence.

    And even if they are, ireland was among the top scoring nations on that map like?? So why the thread title :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Eramen wrote: »
    There's an infamous book called 'The Bell Curve' that examines both hereditary and environmental factors on IQ and the structure of society.

    It's infamous for a reason - it's a load of pseudo-scientific bullshit.
    The last decade of the 20th century experienced a resurgence of genetically based theories of racial hierarchy regarding intelligence and morality. Most notably was Herrnstein and Murray’s The Bell Curve (1994), that claimed genetic causality for long-standing racial differences in IQ. In addition, it raised the time worn argument that the over-reproduction of genetically deficient individuals within our population would lead to a serious decline in average American intelligence. These authors provided no specific rationale for why these genetic differences should exist between human ‘races’. Instead, they relied heavily on the work of Canadian psychologist J. Philipe Rushton (in The Bell Curve, 1994, Appendix 5: 642–3). Rushton has advanced a specific evolutionary genetic rationale for how gene frequencies are differentiated between the ‘races’ relative to intelligence. He claims that human racial differences result from natural selection for particular reproductive strategies in the various racial groups. Rushton’s theory is based entirely on the concept of r- and K-selection, first explicitly outlined by MacArthur and Wilson in 1967. This article examines both the flaws in the general theory, and specifically Rushton’s application of that same theory to human data. It concludes that neither Rushton’s use of the theory nor the data that he has assembled could possibly test any meaningful hypotheses concerning human evolution and/or the distribution of genetic variation relating to reproductive strategies or ‘intelligence’, however defined.


    Source: What a tangled web he weaves: Race, reproductive strategies and Rushton's life history theory Anthropological Theory Vol 2(2): 131–154


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    So apparently africans are real stupid! Hmm maybe just maybe these IQ tests are biased and levels of education obviously have a huge influence on scores.
    Undoubtedly. I read somewhere before that IQ isn't a measure of a person's "untapped" intelligence and the actual stimulation of their brain that they are exposed to (i.e. the level of education they have access to) is what pretty much makes it up.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Bootros Bootros


    Undoubtedly. I read somewhere before that IQ isn't a measure of a person's "untapped" intelligence and the actual stimulation of their brain that they are exposed to (i.e. the level of education they have access to) is what pretty much makes it up.

    Yeah. Our brains are neuro-plastic. Just like an athlete uses his muscles.


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