CAF MK4 in Dire need of refurbishment

end of the road wrote: »

are they even operable now at this stage i wonder? i'd be surprised if they returned to traffic but stranger things have happened i suppose

The majority of the 2700s were operable when stored and should still be, several sets have been started and run under their own power in the last few months in Inchicore, Limerick and Cork for shunting movements. That would suggest that they were not drained down before storage-is that a good thing or a bad thing I wonder?

GM228

I thought at least some of the 2700 engines had been lifted to keep the 26/28s going. Not the case?

Would the extra weight of the 22000 coach (with the powerpack and fuel) be a contributor to them feeling more solid through rough spots than a Mk4?

I thought at least some of the 2700 engines had been lifted to keep the 26/28s going. Not the case?

Were they not withdrawn because they were not compatible with other dmu's and cost more to maintain as a result?

dowlingm wrote: »

I thought at least some of the 2700 engines had been lifted to keep the 26/28s going. Not the case?

i don't know. i wouldn't think so, cummins engines would be easily picked up i'd say. plenty of units using that varient of engine so i'd say plenty of spairs being made and are availible along with whatever support. but thats just a guess, i could be totally wrong

end of the road wrote: »

well, the stupid decisian to put a rail care depot out in portlaoise, and in turn the portlaoise heuston commuter service which they are unsuited to, takes a lot of them up. but don't expect it to change. nothing does on the railway

plus attempts to run shorter but more frequent services consumes train sets like crazy as sets get out of position quicker

end of the road wrote: »

very true. mind you as a user of the rosslare line, i wouldn't mind it being more frequent. however there is more chance of the lot been shut and ripped up then that happening so i wouldn't even dream about it never mind wish for it.

+100, moving to Gorey, timetable is shocking when you compare to northern commuter routes - what gives

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Do tell us why you consider the 22000's to be unsuited to services on the Kildare commuter services

they are intercity/regional railcars built for long distance work, where stopping and starting isn't as much of an issue, with the layout for such services. the kildare commuter services need trains with lots of standing room and a suburban layout like maynooth and droghida as the numbers using mean quick boarding and getting off is a must, which the layout of the likes of the 29 allow. also, a couple of the long distance services, which have been well mentioned here, are suffering well known issues because of their stock being taken from them even though it was lines like these and the other long distance regional lines the 22000s were bought for.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

how Port Laois is an unsuitable location for their depot.

way out of the way. trains can't return to heuston or connolly that quick, they would most likely be able to if looked after in the capital.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Alternative stock and locations would be most welcome.

alternative stock, a higher speed version of the 29s, or just use 29s and take them into acount when doing the schedule. they were able to manage doing all that before. alternative locations for a depot, dublin which IE should have faught to build. they seemed to have been able to operate like that before and it would mean trains back around quicker for when needed.

dowlingm wrote: »

To be fair, C4Ks might have been a better call for Portlaoise and Drogheda operations all right. The Portlaoise depot makes sense for the commuter - less so for intercity but the assumption was that a big bite was going to be taken out of Inchicore for DU so no point in looking there for unlimited room. Also, KRP was truncated from the original concept.

Bottom line is that Rotem had an operational assembly line for 22s and clearly offered an aggressive deal which allowed IE to mix and match. If the commuter services were acquired and operated by a GDA specific agency the vehicles might have been narrowly tailored to the role - but they weren't.

sure, but they should have thought of all that at the time. to me it sounds like they didn't either at all, or not much. at the moment certain lines are suffering whether it be services under capacity, or having little access to long distance speck stock which in turn means suburban stock being taken from their services to run across the country. to me it just seems its about whats convenient for IE at our expence, something which IMO is not good enough when the railway is struggling as it is to both keep and attract custom. but never mind

In short the 22000 are actually almost perfectly suited for the Kildare route. The Kildare line services between 25-50 miles length along lines with an upper speed limit of 100MPH. Compared to the Maynooth line there are fewer stations to serve and on a longer line so middle door boarding isn't as advantageous.
Also, the lines to Drogheda, Sligo and Rosslare have lowers speed limits so the benefits of faster trains aren't realised. Lastly, by basing 29000's exclusively on the Connolly and it's many commuter links and 22000's on Heuston and it's mainline inks it makes for better continuity and utilisation of available rolling stock.

On depot sites, Port Laois was selected due to it's proximity to more major termini than anywhere else; it is a purpose built depot which is closer to Galway, Mayo, Cork, Limerick and Tralee than other considered sites. It gives Kildare/Laois line an enhanced commuter service by way of operating train transfers in service when otherwise they operate empty. The other sites considered included a new site at Drogheda along with greenfield sites in Balbriggan and Maynooth (Earmarked for the Dart extensions for each line) as well as Clondalkin, Bray, Mullingar, North Wall but these offered far less practicality and track space than Port Laois does.

Lastly the 29000's were ordered to replace vacuum braked stock on suburban trips. As commuter stock run slower, higher speeds weren't required out of them hence a lower MPH. As it happens, they are comparable on the mainline links they appear on (Rosslare, Sligo and Belfast substitutions) so there isn't a loss of in service performance, if not creature comforts.

end of the road wrote: »

they are intercity/regional railcars built for long distance work, where stopping and starting isn't as much of an issue, with the layout for such services. the kildare commuter services need trains with lots of standing room and a suburban layout like maynooth and droghida as the numbers using mean quick boarding and getting off is a must, which the layout of the likes of the 29 allow. also, a couple of the long distance services, which have been well mentioned here, are suffering well known issues because of their stock being taken from them even though it was lines like these and the other long distance regional lines the 22000s were bought for....

...way out of the way. trains can't return to heuston or connolly that quick, they would most likely be able to if looked after in the capital.

....alternative stock, a higher speed version of the 29s, or just use 29s and take them into acount when doing the schedule. they were able to manage doing all that before. alternative locations for a depot, dublin which IE should have faught to build. they seemed to have been able to operate like that before and it would mean trains back around quicker for when needed.

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

2600 & 2800s are all in service. It is the 2700 you refer to?

I always thought the 2700 were nice to travel on as commuter DMUs go. They are certainly nicer and more comfortable than the 2600 in my view.

I think most of them were overhauled and had end gangways removed shortly before withdrawal. The were repainted in 22k style livery too. With the gangways removed they painted over the blanking plate to give the impression of a full width windscreen panel. I actually thought they looked really well and tidy in that configuration. Shure they were practically never used in 4-sets anyway.

Does anyone know what the actual maintenance/reliability problems actually were? I mean they had the same gearbox and engines as the 2600 and 2800 iirc.

They may have the same engines etc, but it's the bits and pieces connected to them that are different aswell as the electrical components/door mechanisms etc.

GM228

end of the road wrote: »

they couldn't be used in anything more then 2 cars since the incident on the rosslare line where a set de-coupled.

They could and did regularly after that incident-they just prohibited through access for the passengers throughout an entire set.

GM228

Losty Dublin wrote: »

In short the 22000 are actually almost perfectly suited for the Kildare route. The Kildare line services between 25-50 miles length along lines with an upper speed limit of 100MPH. Compared to the Maynooth line there are fewer stations to serve and on a longer line so middle door boarding isn't as advantageous.

not when capacity from the IC/long distance regional routes they were bought for is been stolen to allow them to run that service they aren't.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Also, the lines to Drogheda, Sligo and Rosslare have lowers speed limits so the benefits of faster trains aren't realised.

but the comfort is, instead we have 29s stolen from the maynooth line to run half way across the country to sligo/rosslare and even disgustingly belfast substitutions while IC/regional stock runs what is effectively a longish suburban service.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Lastly, by basing 29000's exclusively on the Connolly and it's many commuter links and 22000's on Heuston and it's mainline inks it makes for better continuity and utilisation of available rolling stock.

better IE convenience you mean. clearly it isn't delivering anything apart from that. they have no place on kildare services when 29s run half way across the country.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

On depot sites, Port Laois was selected due to it's proximity to more major termini than anywhere else; it is a purpose built depot which is closer to Galway, Mayo, Cork, Limerick and Tralee than other considered sites.

and clearly it isn't working, at least not for the passengers of certain lines including on the heuston side, the waterford line.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

It gives Kildare/Laois line an enhanced commuter service by way of operating train transfers in service when otherwise they operate empty.

and the waterford line for example suffers. they wouldn't run empty if based in dublin or at least it would only be a short run, but they would get back quicker.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The other sites considered included a new site at Drogheda along with greenfield sites in Balbriggan and Maynooth (Earmarked for the Dart extensions for each line) as well as Clondalkin, Bray, Mullingar, North Wall but these offered far less practicality and track space than Port Laois does.

portlaoise only suits IE'S convenience, its so called advantages are outweighed by problems to the customer on lines such as the waterford line who lose out all the time.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Lastly the 29000's were ordered to replace vacuum braked stock on suburban trips. As commuter stock run slower, higher speeds weren't required out of them hence a lower MPH.

good. you agree they shouldn't be running across the country then.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

As it happens, they are comparable on the mainline links they appear on (Rosslare, Sligo and Belfast substitutions) so there isn't a loss of in service performance, if not creature comforts.

no, they are not comparable at all. they maybe able to handle the lines, but they have no place running anything other then the suburban services they were bought for and which they are stolen from to operate half way across the country while at times a 22k runs m3 parkway or even maynooth. the 29s are extremely uncomfortable, noisy, freezing, horid and rickity, unsuitable bottom of the barrel junk, they jolt a lot on the rosslare line at least, their operation on the belfast service is an absolute insult to an international service

end of the road wrote: »

maynooth and droghida as the numbers using mean quick boarding and getting off is a must,

Have you been on the Maynooth line? The timetable is so unambitious that the driver usually waits until everyone has got off the train and left the station before he starts moving again.