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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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    #1022
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    Do you own a car?

    I do and I drive to work most days what is the relevance of your question?


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    #1023
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    I do and I drive to work most days what is the relevance of your question?

    Well it seems that somehow despite your earlier claim that car ownership in Europe does not imply car dependence, here in Ireland it does.


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    #1024
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Well it seems that somehow despite your earlier claim that car ownership in Europe does not imply car dependence, here in Ireland it does.

    He earlier posts clearly include an acceptance that there is large-scale car dependence in Ireland.

    antoobrien wrote: »
    Just to prove how wrong you are about your notion of the "centre of town" the forest park at these two locations are considered city centre in the "smarter travel" money grab plan.

    261010.jpg

    You'll note that the N6 is outside the city centre zone and if you look back on my posts you should also note that I never said it was not beside the city centre -- I actually said proximity is not an issue.

    Also re shot distances: There's loads of people clogging up Galway's road by using cars to travel actual short distances -- both crossing the river, those going into into the city centre, and parents picking picking up children etc. Also important are mid-length distances which more people will cycle under better conditions, and P&R can take many long distance drivers off city roads.

    One of the councils drawing circles on a map does not change the above.


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    #1025
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    monument wrote: »
    You'll note that the N6 is outside the city centre zone and if you look back on my posts you should also note that I never said it was not beside the city centre -- I actually said proximity is not an issue.

    Blah blah blah.

    The N6 quite clearly funnels traffic into the city center and the narrowest part of Galway.


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    #1026
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Blah blah blah.

    The N6 quite clearly funnels traffic into the city center and the narrowest part of Galway.

    Bingo!

    That's why as I've saying for ages that local city bound traffic has an affect on longer distance traffic that has to cross the river.


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    #1027
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I think my heads just exploded.


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    #1028
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    monument wrote: »
    Bingo!

    That's why as I've saying for ages that local city bound traffic has an affect on longer distance traffic that has to cross the river.

    Am no, you've been saying that we don't need a bypass because we have a bypass that does not bring traffic near the city center. I have proved otherwise.


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    #1029
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Am no, you've been saying that we don't need a bypass because we have a bypass that does not bring traffic near the city center. I have proved otherwise.

    Most of that traffic is going to locations near enough to the city centre that it does not matter as the N6 is not its self in the centre, just near to it.

    Remember only ~20k living west of Galway. And a good chunk of that not crossing the Galway daily.


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    #1030
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    monument wrote: »
    Most of that traffic is going to locations near enough to the city centre that it does not matter as the N6 is not its self in the centre, just near to it.

    Remember only ~20k living west of Galway.

    Actually that 70k west of the river.


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    #1031
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Am no, you've been saying that we don't need a bypass because we have a bypass that does not bring traffic near the city center. I have proved otherwise.

    Uh no what is being said is that we may not need another bypass because we already have a bypass that is being interfered with by traffic that does not need to be there.


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    #1032
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    Uh no what is being said is that we may not need another bypass because we already have a bypass that is being interfered with by traffic that does not need to be there.

    It's mixing traffic that is trying to enter the city with traffic that's trying to avoid it - making it a bypass of nothing.

    So not only is the "this is a bypass, we don't need another one" argument false, but the entire premise of the argument is rubbish because we don't have one to begin with.


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    #1033
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    So anyway to get back to the question of parking based demand management for car traffic generated by the two 3rd level colleges in Galway (As used in Oxford or Cambridge)

    Antobrien responds
    antoobrien wrote: »
    Does the fact that Oxbridge traditionally houses students & staff, making the parking issue a pretty much moot point there, where netiehr Galway instituion have such a hisotry have any place in this discussion?

    Thus it appears to be argued that this type of demand management cannot work in Galway because of a lack of suitable housing accommodation in the areas around the colleges. This is news to me as some housing estates are almost student dominated already.

    So I would expect to see some facts to back up this position.

    Here is what it says in the forum charter
    Some posters will be over-zealous about their preferred means of, or reason for, putting specific infrastructure in place. If you make a particular statement for or against a particular means of, or reason for, putting specific infrastructure in place, you should be willing to back it up.


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    #1034
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    Thus it appears to be argued that this type of demand management cannot work in Galway because of a lack of suitable housing accommodation in the areas around the colleges.

    It's interesting how you got that from
    antoobrien wrote: »
    Does the fact that Oxbridge traditionally houses students & staff

    If you are not aware of this, Oxbridge traditioanlly had all staff and students on campus, meaning that things like carriages and later horseless carriages were not needed.

    NUI Galway had not been in that kind of situation for a very long time and GMIT only has co-located student residence built in the last 10-15 years.
    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    This is news to me as some housing estates are almost student dominated already.

    And yet the students somehow travel from all over Galway to attend lectures.
    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    So I would expect to see some facts to back up this position.
    Likewise I would like to see some proof that it can work at all., seeing as the

    Here is what it says in the forum charter

    Since the position is very much something that you've tried to twist out of my posts I'd like to see you defend the premise of an the argument I'm not making without managing to break this rule:
    6) Soapboxing, i.e. the constant repetition of a single viewpoint while refusing to entertain discussion or correction on it, is both disruptive and annoying, and will not be tolerated.


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    #1035
    dloob
    Registered Users Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭dloob


    It's funny the way Cycling and public transport are so great, yet their advocates spent all their time talking about ways to force the general public to use them by making motoring less convenient.

    Even if it took as long to drive my 3km trip to work as it would take to cycle it, the car would still be better, dry, air conditioned, comfortable seats and radio, ability to run errants at lunch, why on earth would I cycle?


    Back to the bypass when will the IROPI process start and how long will it take?


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    #1036
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    antoobrien wrote: »
    If you are not aware of this, Oxbridge traditioanlly had all staff and students on campus, meaning that things like carriages and later horseless carriages were not needed.

    But there isn't one central campus in Oxford is there? There are over 40 different colleges and halls. The departments are scattered all over the city. In any case, as with other Universities, living in is more of a first year thing in Oxford isnt it? Yet the whole thing happens to work without undergraduates being able to bring their cars.
    Since the position is very much something that you've tried to twist out of my posts I'd like to see you defend the premise of an the argument I'm not making without managing to break this rule:

    But you're not making any arguments Anto you just keep saying its not the same here. Its like pointing out that the sun rose this morning - its not anything thats up for debate. That's your soapbox isnt it?


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    #1037
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    But there isn't one central campus in Oxford is there? There are over 40 different colleges and halls.

    There are several colleges akin to DIT. So any comparisons are totally invalid.

    Please find a relatively modern university town to base your hypothesis on.


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    #1038
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Actually that 70k west of the river.

    West of the urban area around the city, there's only ~20k.


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    #1039
    Pappa Charlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Pappa Charlie


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    Do you own a car?

    You are the cause of obesity


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    #1040
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    antoobrien wrote: »
    There are several colleges akin to DIT. So any comparisons are totally invalid.

    Please find a relatively modern university town to base your hypothesis on.

    Sorry but thats not an argument thats an attempt to waste time. Telling people to go and find an exact match for Galway is a cop out. So far you have completely failed to address the issue of student travel in Galway.


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    #1041
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    Sorry but thats not an argument thats an attempt to waste time. Telling people to go and find an exact match for Galway is a cop out. So far you have completely failed to address the issue of student travel in Galway.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Red_herring_fallacies


    dloob wrote: »
    It's funny the way Cycling and public transport are so great, yet their advocates spent all their time talking about ways to force the general public to use them by making motoring less convenient.

    Even if it took as long to drive my my 3km trip to work as it would take to cycle it, the car would still be better, dry, air conditioned, comfortable seats and radio, ability to run errants at lunch, why on earth would I cycle?

    Back to the bypass when will the IROPI process start and how long will it take?



    My kid cycles 3 km to Junior Infants, with very little in the way of infrastructure to make the trip a little easier and more direct. Not so much as a crossing on a multi-lane roundabout.

    You're an adult and you drive 3 km to work.

    You claim that advocates of more efficient and sustainable transport modes "spend all their time talking about ways to force the general public to use them by making motoring less convenient" (also referred to in an earlier post as a desire to "punish motorists for having cars").

    You say the car is "better", dry, air-conditioned, has comfortable seats and a radio, and provides the "ability to run errands at lunch".

    In the context of the proposed Galway Bypass, are these what you would call "over-riding reasons of public interest"?

    €300 million of scarce public funds for a bypass to make motoring more convenient as drivers stay dry, air-conditioned, comfortable and entertained while they drive 3 km to work and pop out to the shops during lunch-time?

    churchview wrote: »
    Why would one own a car other than to use it? If we accept that there are a certain amount of cars out there currently, why wouldn't their owners use them if they already own them?

    I just can't see the logic of suggesting that non-use of cars is a runner.

    Any proposals regarding road usage need legitimacy and need to be formulated for the general populace.


    Is that what the "general populace" thinks is a "legitimate" use of IROPI in the context of the GCOB? To facilitate car owners to use their comfy cars as and when they feel like it?

    Is that culture the basis of the popular demand for a bypass?


    .


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    #1042
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    any chance a mod would lock this thread for a few days, it has just become a farce now with almost zero posts related to the GCOB

    I have bumped the more appropriate thread Not really on-topic stuff from "N6 - Galway City Outer Bypass" thread


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    #1043
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,352 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Thread closed for the time being
    antoobrien wrote: »
    That is in fact crap
    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Drumm-bum numbers
    MYOB wrote: »
    Oh, grow up you child.
    what_traffic wrote: »
    Now that's a brain dead reply!:D
    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    Do you own a car?

    You might all raise the level of discourse.

    Moderator


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    #1044
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,352 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Thread re-opened.

    Behave.

    Moderator


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    #1045
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Does anyone know the latest with this and the holdups


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    #1046
    RandomUsername
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭RandomUsername


    The Co-Co/NRA are due to announce plans later this month or February. I'm also eagerly awaiting updates.


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    #1047
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,943 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Does anyone know the latest with this and the holdups

    There are no holdups as far as I am aware in relation to the "N6 Galway City Transport Project"
    Think it is in "Phase 2"
    http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/


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    #1048
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    The official line is that what we're dealing with now is a "transport project" not a "bypass" per se.

    However, certain keywords, stubbornly and significantly, remain part of the official project title: N6 Galway City Transport Project. And the word "route" is never far away. The main email address is "N6GCOB@****.com".
    The scheme is currently at Phase 2 – Route Selection stage. The objective of this phase is to identify a suitable study area for the examination of alternative routes and transportation solutions, to identify key constraints within this study area, to develop feasible route options and transportation solutions and to carry out a systematic assessment of these options leading to the selection of a preferred route corridor or transportation solution, which will form the basis for the detailed design to follow. This phase also outlines the requirements for public consultation associated with the development of routes and alternatives.

    The official position of the "Transport Project" team is that they are investigating all viable alternative solutions, including transport solutions involving maximum public transport provision, which may avoid significant impacts on a European Designated Site. Apparently, alternatives can take many forms including non-road alternatives or simple upgrades of the existing network. If there is a viable alternative, they will progress this alternative through normal planning procedures and Article 6(4) of the Habitats Directive will not apply to the planning application.

    However, if the chosen transport solution does impact on a European Designated Site, they will be seeking the transport solution which will have the least adverse impact on the integrity of the designated site. It is reported that extensive ecological surveys have been undertaken as part of the constraints study to inform the development of options to ensure that the chosen option will represent the alternative which has the least adverse impact on the habitats and species listed in the Habitats Directive.

    Galway City Council had to make a material change to its Development Plan, in order to remove references to a "bypass". Now that I think of it, perhaps the "N6 Galway City Transport Project" needs its own thread, reflecting occurrences IRL?

    ================

    Just found something I was searching for earlier but couldn't lay my hands on.

    The consultants' report "N6 Galway City Outer Bypass Briefing No. 1 Executive Summary - Constraints Stage" says "the need for a bypass of Galway City has been in existence for over 20 years."

    The homepage on the "N6 Galway City Transport Project" website is more nuanced: "The problem with congested traffic in Galway City has been in existence for over 20 years."


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    #1049
    KevR
    Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    I propose that this thread should be specifically for Galway City Outer Bypass discussion and updates.

    The "N6 Galway City Transport Project" is an extremely broad discussion. I second Iwannahurl's suggestion that a separate/new thread be created to discuss that. (I'm not interested in creating it by the way. I just want to be able to come to this thread for bypass updates and not have to go through a whole host of other discussion topics).


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    #1050
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    KevR wrote: »
    I propose that this thread should be specifically for Galway City Outer Bypass discussion and updates.

    The "N6 Galway City Transport Project" is an extremely broad discussion. I second Iwannahurl's suggestion that a separate/new thread be created to discuss that. (I'm not interested in creating it by the way. I just want to be able to come to this thread for bypass updates and not have to go through a whole host of other discussion topics).

    New thread in C&T http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057361466/1/#post93832601


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    #1051
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    KevR wrote: »
    I propose that this thread should be specifically for Galway City Outer Bypass discussion and updates.

    The "N6 Galway City Transport Project" is an extremely broad discussion. I second Iwannahurl's suggestion that a separate/new thread be created to discuss that. (I'm not interested in creating it by the way. I just want to be able to come to this thread for bypass updates and not have to go through a whole host of other discussion topics).

    monument wrote: »
    New thread in C&T http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057361466/1/#post93832601



    In which case the "bypass" thread should be closed again, because there is currently no such project requiring updates.


This discussion has been closed.
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