Athiests - Who cares

kneemos · 13-01-2015 12:29PM

It's hard to argue with atheists when they don't believe anything you say.

timetogo · 13-01-2015 12:37PM

kneemos wrote: »

It's hard to argue with atheists when they don't believe anything you say.

I'd say it's hard to argue with atheists or anybody if you can't provide any evidence for your argument.

I argue with people all of the time that I don't believe. Some of them change my mind because they can show where I'm wrong or have evidence to back up their argument.

When I say evidence there I mean real evidence. Some "evidence" I've seen for a creator have included

a book written / rewritten over the last few hundred years by many people.
a feeling.
a sunrise. That one looks like a typo but you'll see people arguing about how beautiful something is so it must have been created by some god.

Saralee4 · 13-01-2015 12:37PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Sara I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying when I say that atheism requires no thought. Atheism isn't a belief system. The very essence of atheism is an absence of belief. Therefore there simply isn't anything to question, there isn't anything to think about, there isn't anything to believe in. It's simply a neutral position and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. What IS wrong however is to coral in all the stuff you DO believe in, such as your belief in humanity and so on, with your atheist position. In the same way as you quite rightly point out that people don't need a book to tell them how to live, a person who is atheist doesn't need to identify with anything else in order to tell them how to live either. Your humanitarianism is a completely separate and distinct ideology from your atheism. There is nothing to distinguish a person who is atheist from a person who is religious, other than the fact they simply do not acknowledge the possibility of a deity or deities.

.

If you come to the conclusion that you are atheist, this brings along other questions about the world, why you are here, who you are. Ideas Have consequences. You are most likely going to turn to reason and science. Just because I reject a belief system that has been given to me does not mean that I cannot create my own belief system.

Its not as simple as 'rejecting' a belief system either. There are many parts of the bible that I agree with and are part of my belief system and many that are not. Even most religious people take from the bible only parts and do not follow it exactly how it is suggested. I know a lot of catholic people who go to the pub on a sunday "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." or who take the lords name in vain. There system is flawed?

'a person who is atheist doesn't need to identify with anything else in order to tell them how to live either. Your humanitarianism is a completely separate and distinct ideology from your atheism.'

A person does need to identify with something else be it science, humanitarianism etc the person will identify with other things and form their own belief system on this based on the fact that they don't believe in religion. Its not like one of those sketches in Little Britain where the woman says 'computer says no'. Its is not as simple as saying 'I reject this' move on. There are distinct beliefs that I have simply because I reject religion.

Humanitarianism: “Humanitarian”, originally a theological term, referred to one who affirmed the humanity of Christ, while denying his divine existence. It came to mean the application of purely human action – without religious sanction – to the resolution of social problems. In this sense it first appears in the early 19th century; at that time it carried ironic overtones, suggesting an excess of zeal or sentimentality in those who would change the world."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/08/doctrine-humanitarianism-not-benign

magma69 · 13-01-2015 12:42PM

Being an atheist in Egypt gets you three years in prison.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jan/13/egyptian-student-jailed-for-proclaiming-that-he-is-an-atheist

Baggy Trousers · 13-01-2015 12:48PM

magma69 wrote: »

Being an atheist in Egypt gets you three years in prison.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jan/13/egyptian-student-jailed-for-proclaiming-that-he-is-an-atheist

Atheists are perceived as worse than Christians for Muslims.

Christians and Muslims essentially worship the same god and Muslims do recognise Jesus as a great prophet.

Peist2007 · 13-01-2015 12:53PM

kneemos wrote: »

It's hard to argue with atheists when they don't believe anything you say.

Do you call being asked a very simple question twice and not answering it an argument? You haven't put any argument forward whatsoever.

Peist2007 · 13-01-2015 12:58PM

"My belief system"

Something is real or it isnt. You apply the same logic to deciding on whether it is real as you would to anything else ie is there any evidence for its existence? Do i believe in the planet Jupiter? Yes, it has been shown to exist. Do i believe in God? No, because God has not been shown to exist and the "belief system" people refer to is simply them deciding he is real and that is that.

I wont even go into why religion is there. If you think religion was created "to give thanks" then you need to read up on your history. Religion went a long way to helping civilise society but that job has been more or less done. Therefore, religion is a busted flush. I think the numbers and age profiles attending church is indicative of that.

magma69 · 13-01-2015 12:58PM

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Atheists are perceived as worse than Christians for Muslims.

Christians and Muslims essentially worship the same god and Muslims do recognise Jesus as a great prophet.

Ya but shur atheists are only a pack of whingers.

kneemos · 13-01-2015 01:14PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Do you call being asked a very simple question twice and not answering it an argument? You haven't put any argument forward whatsoever.

Ah I proved the existence of God earlier on in the thread.
I think my work here is done.

Peist2007 · 13-01-2015 01:22PM

kneemos wrote: »

Ah I proved the existence of God earlier on in the thread.
I think my work here is done.

You were asked a couple of direct questions and have decided to start making light of things to deflect. Very indicative of the imaginary nature of your position. I just couldnt deal with the denial.

kneemos · 13-01-2015 01:25PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

You were asked a couple of direct questions and have decided to start making light of things to deflect. Very indicative of the imaginary nature of your position. I just couldnt deal with the denial.

Far as I can see I answered both of your questions.

One eyed Jack · 13-01-2015 01:33PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

"My belief system"

Something is real or it isnt. You apply the same logic to deciding on whether it is real as you would to anything else ie is there any evidence for its existence? Do i believe in the planet Jupiter? Yes, it has been shown to exist. Do i believe in God? No, because God has not been shown to exist and the "belief system" people refer to is simply them deciding he is real and that is that.

I wont even go into why religion is there. If you think religion was created "to give thanks" then you need to read up on your history. Religion went a long way to helping civilise society but that job has been more or less done. Therefore, religion is a busted flush. I think the numbers and age profiles attending church is indicative of that.

Which Church would that be now, because if you were talking about the RCC in Ireland, I could understand why you might assume that was the case, but if you were to include all religious denominations and faiths in Irish society, you'd be well wide of the mark, and even more so if you were to claim that your opinion is true of Western society, and if we were to include the Middle East, Africa, India and China in terms of a global society...

Well, can you see now how you might be mistaken?

Peist2007 · 13-01-2015 01:35PM

kneemos wrote: »

Far as I can see I answered both of your questions.

No, you didnt. I have no interest in a childish conversation.

Peist2007 · 13-01-2015 01:37PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Which Church would that be now, because if you were talking about the RCC in Ireland, I could understand why you might assume that was the case, but if you were to include all religious denominations and faiths in Irish society, you'd be well wide of the mark, and even more so if you were to claim that your opinion is true of Western society, and if we were to include the Middle East, Africa, India and China in terms of a global society...

Well, can you see now how you might be mistaken?

I am talking about medieval and Renaissance Europe. Where the concept of imposing religious beliefs was first made into big business. And no, i am not mistaken.

Zubeneschamali · 13-01-2015 01:52PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Answer; You can't, it's just your own opinion, your own belief which is fine of course.

I didn't say I can prove who is right, but it is easy to prove most people are wrong.

13-01-2015 01:57PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Therefore, religion is a busted flush. I think the numbers and age profiles attending church is indicative of that.

You should head to mass some Sunday you will find an awful lot more people going than atheists would like to admit and also lots of young people and young adults.

I know it's a day that a lot of non-regular mass goers attend (that said a large percentage I would know as regulars) but still Christmas Eve mass in my local church this year was the busiest that even my parents can remember never mind me and they would remember when absolutely everybody attended mass.

Mass attendance dipped a few years ago but numbers are increasing again you can see it every Sunday.

Zubeneschamali · 13-01-2015 02:04PM

Corbin Silly Pan wrote: »

You should head to mass some Sunday you will find an awful lot more people going than atheists would like to admit and also lots of young people and young adults.

I was actually at a Mass there on Saturday evening at my old parish church, and was not surprised to find myself one of the youngest there (at 50).

Attendance was about 10% of what it used to be when I was a kid.

Baggy Trousers · 13-01-2015 02:13PM

Ismael Freezing Tv wrote: »

You should head to mass some Sunday you will find an awful lot more people going than atheists would like to admit and also lots of young people and young adults.

I know it's a day that a lot of non-regular mass goers attend (that said a large percentage I would know as regulars) but still Christmas Eve mass in my local church this year was the busiest that even my parents can remember never mind me and they would remember when absolutely everybody attended mass.

Mass attendance dipped a few years ago but numbers are increasing again you can see it every Sunday.

You've been throwing this dodgy line out a few times since Xmas Ismael Freezing Tv - have you a point?
Like do you think the Ryan Report and Murphy Report and Ferns Report and Cloyne Report and 800 Tuam babies have been good for church attendances?

TwoShedsJackson · 13-01-2015 02:18PM

kneemos wrote: »

Ah I proved the existence of God earlier on in the thread.
I think my work here is done.

If your 'proof' was that whole 'someone did something because they believe in God, therefore God is real' thing, you have definitely not proved the existence of God.

Baggy Trousers · 13-01-2015 02:20PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

If your 'proof' was that whole 'someone did something because they believe in God, therefore God is real' thing, you have definitely not proved the existence of God.

It does prove extreme gullibility.

seamus · 13-01-2015 02:29PM

Steve Jobs ate a specific diet because he believed that diet would cure his cancer. Therefore that diet does cure cancer. Because if it didn't cure cancer, then he wouldn't have eaten it. Jobs died from...uh...an unrelated complicated.

That's how idiotic the "if you do something because of a belief, that belief must be right" thinking is.

kneemos · 13-01-2015 02:39PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

If your 'proof' was that whole 'someone did something because they believe in God, therefore God is real' thing, you have definitely not proved the existence of God.

Scientifically speaking you can't have a reaction without cause.
I know God may or may not exist,but if someone believes then he exists.

Baggy Trousers · 13-01-2015 02:41PM

kneemos wrote: »

Scientifically speaking you can't have a reaction without cause.
I know God may or may not exist,but if someone believes then he exists.

You must be joking.

mickydoomsux · 13-01-2015 02:43PM

kneemos wrote: »

but if someone believes then he exists.

No.

That's not how reality works.

drumswan · 13-01-2015 02:44PM

kneemos wrote: »

Scientifically speaking you can't have a reaction without cause.
I know God may or may not exist,but if someone believes then he exists.

If this is trolling its pretty decent by Boards standards

kylith · 13-01-2015 02:50PM

kneemos wrote: »

Scientifically speaking you can't have a reaction without cause.
I know God may or may not exist,but if someone believes then he exists.

So, fairies, the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, werewolves, and an honest politician all exist then?

Peist2007 · 13-01-2015 03:04PM

Corbin Silly Pan wrote: »

You should head to mass some Sunday you will find an awful lot more people going than atheists would like to admit and also lots of young people and young adults.

I know it's a day that a lot of non-regular mass goers attend (that said a large percentage I would know as regulars) but still Christmas Eve mass in my local church this year was the busiest that even my parents can remember never mind me and they would remember when absolutely everybody attended mass.

Mass attendance dipped a few years ago but numbers are increasing again you can see it every Sunday.

Mass numbers ever decreasing in my home town. Has been spoken at local meetings. But keep seeing what you want to see. It will be people like yourself who will be saying mass in 20 years

Baggy Trousers · 13-01-2015 03:04PM

I forgot what we were discussing so I went back to the first page and kneemos opened his argument with this doozy;

Atheism is flawed logic as it rules out the possibility of the unexplained and as any scientist will tell you their whole life is devoted to the unexplained.

I think we have come full circle and it is time to close the thread.

Until the next time....

Peist2007 · 13-01-2015 03:05PM

kneemos wrote: »

Scientifically speaking you can't have a reaction without cause.
I know God may or may not exist,but if someone believes then he exists.

Someone believing in God does not mean he exists. Seriously

AudreyHepburn · 13-01-2015 03:07PM

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I can read above what you replied to, just admit that you are wrong in this instance.

Why would I admit to being wrong when I don't believe I am?

No-one knows for certain whether God/Allah/Yahweh etc exists for not and we won't until we die.

Until then the best anyone can say is what they do or not believe or what their opinions on the matter are.

And beliefs and opinions are not the same as facts.

Athiests - Who cares

Comments