Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

adox · 12-01-2015 02:23PM

GSPfan wrote: »

Sarcasm?
He had only 1 player unfit yesterday. We still played 5 defenders + Carrick. Thats a very defensive 6 players.

Not at all. A lot of players aren't match fit yet and one of our only two real fullbacks wasbt considered ready for selection.

Rayne Wooney · 12-01-2015 02:39PM

I would rather we play 41212 in the next game and try and play some good football, even losing doing that wouldn't be as bad as playing 5 at the back again and looking completely blunt and winning undeservedly

The_Kew_Tour · 12-01-2015 02:56PM

No excuse for not creating chance yesterday..

Play the players in right position and we would have created chances and most likely have scored.

QPR is now a must must win and a team if set up right we should create enough chances to score3 or more

Nalz · 12-01-2015 02:59PM

what is our best 11? This?

          De Gea
    Raf Rojo Smalling Shaw
           Carrick
     Herrera     Di Maria
            Mata
         Rooney RVP

TheDoc · 12-01-2015 03:01PM

adox wrote: »

I`m still confident(ish!) that Van Gaal will revert to back 4 when everyone is fully fit.

I'm hoping he does. There isn't much left to invent in football. Every so often, things come back around and become flavor of the month. 3 CB's and wingbacks is no different.

But when you consider Hull have tried it and being dire. QPR use it and are dire, and Liverpool tried it and were dire. Liverpool have the better change in fortune going back to 4 at the back last season moving away from it.

Actually struggling to remember a time where 3 CB's worked in the Premier League. And am totally unconvinced with it's benefit.

TheDoc · 12-01-2015 03:03PM

Trilla wrote: »

what is our best 11? This?

          De Gea
    Raf Rojo Smalling Shaw
           Carrick
     Herrera     Di Maria
            Mata
         Rooney RVP

I'd go along with that. Although Smalling makes me uncomfortable. I have a preference for Jones.

I'd also struggle not to put Blind into my team. Thought he was one of the really bright things early in the season. How he made things just seem to happen faster with Di Maria and Herrera. I thought our most impressive midfield combination was what you have above, but with Blind instead of Carrick.

Man wouldn't like to be a manager

GSPfan · 12-01-2015 03:48PM

Trilla wrote: »

what is our best 11? This?

          De Gea
    Raf Rojo Smalling Shaw
           Carrick
     Herrera     Di Maria
            Mata
         Rooney RVP

Yeah i think you are pretty much on the right track with that team. It's certainly better than any 532. I would like to see Blind in the team maybe at the expense of RVP. I don't dislike RVP or think he is bad all of a sudden but if Rooney has to play then i'd rather drop RVP than Mata.

For me i'd go for:

De Gea
Raf Jones Rojo Shaw
Carrick
Herrera Blind Di Maria
Mata
Rooney

Have a feeling Falcao will be gone at the end of the season and will not have a chance to show his real worth. Shame.

bangkok · 12-01-2015 03:53PM

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/the-stats-dont-lie-seven-ways-manchester-united-have-gotten-worse-under-louis-van-gaal-30901107.html

Nalz · 12-01-2015 03:53PM

GSPfan wrote: »

Have a feeling Falcao will be gone at the end of the season and will not have a chance to show his real worth. Shame.

This is a shame, as RVP will probably never hit the heights of two seasons ago

If we loose Falcao, Nani and Chico I won't be happy.

Nalz · 12-01-2015 03:57PM

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/the-stats-dont-lie-seven-ways-manchester-united-have-gotten-worse-under-louis-van-gaal-30901107.html

jesus, thats bad!

We need:

4-4-2
Di Maria attacking the ball
some sort of support out wide for the FBs now and again
A consistent CB pairing
RVP to hit form
Rooney to quit his slow mo hollywood balls
A prayer from the holiest of holy men that De Gea signs a new contract

Cantona's Collars · 12-01-2015 03:57PM

Looking back at yesterday's game and it was noticable that we had nobody running from midfield,Di Maria dropped back to do it but the others seemed content to pass the ball around and move as little as possible,this made it so easy for Southampton to keep their defensive shape and watch as time & again the ball end up going wide and have no impact.

Look at other teams who have their midfielders running beyond the strikers and how many goals result in this compared to us.

The Villa game is another glaring example of this lack of movement resulting in our attacking game dying a death.

Rooney in midfield is a disaster as he'll get the ball,pass it and that's it.It's as if his attacking instinct disappears when playing that role,he looks more content to try the hollywood ball than the simple pass & move.Herrera is much more adept at this & I for one would rather him in the middle than Rooney,if just for this fact alone.

bangkok · 12-01-2015 04:02PM

no real quick fix for us...

we need to sell mata in the summer and replace with bale if feasible.

we need a new "world class" centre back.

we need a new right back.

We need a commanding midfielder.

Also if they don't sign falcao need a new striker

GSPfan · 12-01-2015 04:02PM

Trilla wrote: »

This is a shame, as RVP will probably never hit the heights of two seasons ago

If we loose Falcao, Nani and Chico I won't be happy.

Nani and Chico are gone already for me. Unless they can play wing back!

Trond · 12-01-2015 04:04PM

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/the-stats-dont-lie-seven-ways-manchester-united-have-gotten-worse-under-louis-van-gaal-30901107.html

Moyes wasn't sacked for the first half of last season. It was from here on in it went pear shaped.

Plus he had a small time mentality which ultimately cost him as well.

homerjay2005 · 12-01-2015 04:08PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'm nowhere near worrying about LVG yet tbh.

My main concern is that for all people want a first team defender brought in, our problem yesterday wasn't that we conceded, it was that we couldn't score. Still haven't seen stats but it felt like we dominated possession.

ive seen a few people now focus on our goals conceded stats to say that the defence isnt the problem, thats very very baffling when its plainly obvious to see that our problems are coming from this, along with the formation and players playing out of position.

Phil Jones and Chris Smalling cannot pass the ball, Tyler Blackett just hoofs it into the air. Mcnair is slow and unsure, Evans is having his worst season ever.

Jones and Smalling gave away the ball 20 times between them yesterday.
Blackett hoofed the ball long on 10 occasions, despite only touching the ball 17 times.

look at the long ball stat from a few posts up - it sums it all up, we are the biggest long ball team in the PL.

we attempted 84 long balls yesterday and 30 crosses - thats as bad as the crossing farce V Fulham around 12 months ago.

so, when we have a defence that cannot pass the ball, it gives the opposition room for maneuver - if they press us, we lose possession easily. then our midfield and attack needs to sit deep and our strikers get isolated.

Koeman made it very clear where our problems were and how they would play against us - he can see it, most fans on here and in the ground can see it, but some lads refuse to see that the route of our problems is that our defenders are killing our ability to get control of games and attack.

we only attempted 3 through balls in the whole game, one each from Rooney, RVP and Di Maria - again thats shocking.

keane2097 wrote: »

I didn't think United were bad at all yesterday tbh. .

we were absolutely brutal, even at half time the lads i was talking to in the concourse were saying its one of the worst performances in 4 or 5 years.

irishfeen wrote: »

After contemplation on yesterdays result I think we are getting a bit carried away with the negative reaction.

not really, its been coming for 2 months - results have masked very poor performances. our football has not improved since Moyes left and to be honest, at at times its been shambolic (southampton away, first half v arsenal, at home to Palace, away to Villa who had 10 men for 40% of the game etc etc).

there is nothing knee-jerk about the reaction today, especially when it comes after one win in 5, 6 points out of 15.

Cantona's Collars · 12-01-2015 04:11PM

Man Utd 14-15 PL win%

Three at the back: 36% (11 games)
Midfield diamond: 80% (five games)
Others: 40% (five games).

Nalz · 12-01-2015 04:13PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we were absolutely brutal, even at half time the lads i was talking to in the concourse were saying its one of the worst performances in 4 or 5 years.

We were v bad agreed.

Regardless of Southamptons organization, to have > 60% possession, 10 attempts and to not work the keeper is awful.

I felt sorry for Valencia and Shaw, quite often they were left unsupported out wide. Blind was very good for his first game back too. The rest, including Carrick who had his worst game since coming back from injury, were below par.

homerjay2005 · 12-01-2015 04:13PM

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/the-stats-dont-lie-seven-ways-manchester-united-have-gotten-worse-under-louis-van-gaal-30901107.html

my word, when you read through that, its shocking.

squadro · 12-01-2015 04:18PM

Chris smalling was lucky not to concede a penalty yesterday and to quote van gaal after he was sent off against city "it was not very smart" . Chris smalling will continue to be not very smart in a united shirt for as long as he is let. For the love of united please get him the **** outta there.

Nalz · 12-01-2015 04:20PM

are Rooneys slow mo hollywood cross field balls counted in the long ball stats?

Pro. F · 12-01-2015 04:20PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ive seen a few people now focus on our goals conceded stats to say that the defence isnt the problem, thats very very baffling when its plainly obvious to see that our problems are coming from this, along with the formation and players playing out of position.

Phil Jones and Chris Smalling cannot pass the ball, Tyler Blackett just hoofs it into the air. Mcnair is slow and unsure, Evans is having his worst season ever.

Jones and Smalling gave away the ball 20 times between them yesterday.
Blackett hoofed the ball long on 10 occasions, despite only touching the ball 17 times.

look at the long ball stat from a few posts up - it sums it all up, we are the biggest long ball team in the PL.

we attempted 84 long balls yesterday and 30 crosses - thats as bad as the crossing farce V Fulham around 12 months ago.

so, when we have a defence that cannot pass the ball, it gives the opposition room for maneuver - if they press us, we lose possession easily. then our midfield and attack needs to sit deep and our strikers get isolated.

Koeman made it very clear where our problems were and how they would play against us - he can see it, most fans on here and in the ground can see it, but some lads refuse to see that the route of our problems is that our defenders are killing our ability to get control of games and attack.

we only attempted 3 through balls in the whole game, one each from Rooney, RVP and Di Maria - again thats shocking.

we were absolutely brutal, even at half time the lads i was talking to in the concourse were saying its one of the worst performances in 4 or 5 years.

not really, its been coming for 2 months - results have masked very poor performances. our football has not improved since Moyes left and to be honest, at at times its been shambolic (southampton away, first half v arsenal, at home to Palace, away to Villa who had 10 men for 40% of the game etc etc).

there is nothing knee-jerk about the reaction today, especially when it comes after one win in 5, 6 points out of 15.

You remind me of the English tabloid that blamed Hart for the English team's inability to hold onto the ball in midfield during WC 2010.

bullvine · 12-01-2015 04:21PM

The only improvement that Van Gaal has over Moyes is the teams performances in the so called big games.

Trond · 12-01-2015 04:29PM

bullvine wrote: »

The only improvement that Van Gaal has over Moyes is the teams performances in the so called big games.

Don't forget his press conferences!

Rob Thomas · 12-01-2015 04:30PM

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/the-stats-dont-lie-seven-ways-manchester-united-have-gotten-worse-under-louis-van-gaal-30901107.html

Lies, damned lies and statistics. You can find stats to back up any view you may care.

This ignores the number of goals we conceded, or the number of times we went behind in games or the general apathy with the tactical attitude under Moyes.

LVG just has to make a few hard decisions which he has not made up to now, either through loyalty to players or due to injuries. Now everyone is back he needs to make basic choices.

1. Carrick, Fellaini or Blind in midfield, not a mix and unless we are defending a winning position, two of them should not be playing at the same time either.
2. Two from Rooney, RVP and Falcao up top. If Rooney can't be accommodated there, he needs to be on the bench. Playing him in midfield does not suit the pace of the team.
3. Once Rojo is fit, we need to go back to a back 4 with him and one of Jones, Smalling, Evans or the other CBs we have. Stick with Proper full backs and start giving them the space to get forward, past the wingers.
4. Drop his 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 for the rest of the season. It's the EPL for Gods sake, 4-4-2 is good enough to beat most teams in England and he can save the fancy formations for the CL next season.

I'd be happiest with this 4-4-2 team based on current form. Val only in by default because Young is injured. Evans only included because the rest are so poor and while he has been terrible himself, I think he is best when part of a straight back 4.

I would only play Mata in the middle, obviously pushing on where he wants to do with Carrick holding. -If Mata is not doing it, I would play Herrera in there instead but either way we need to reduce the number of players we have in the centre diamond of the pitch, we are choking the life out of ourselves.

DeGea

Raf, Rojo, Evans, Blind
Young, Carrick, Mata, ADM,
Rooney, Falcao

The way our team is set up at the moment, if we signed Coleman, he would dribble as far as the halfway line, turn back and pass the ball in to a DM or back to the keeper. It would be waste of his attacking ability to join at the moment.

ericzeking · 12-01-2015 04:32PM

I believe that if we kept Moyes, got rid of who we got rid of (ie. the players who didn't want to play for him...Rio, Vidic, Evra) and spent the money we did spend we would be better off this season.........

>>>>>>>>Runs for cover!!!!!!

Your Airbag · 12-01-2015 04:33PM

Trilla wrote: »

what is our best 11? This?

          De Gea
    Raf Rojo Smalling Shaw
           Carrick
     Herrera     Di Maria
            Mata
         Rooney RVP

Swap out RVP for Falcao and you have the best XI imo. It gives us a solid bench too.

RVP could come on with Mata off and Rooney dropping back there. Blind or Fellaini for Carrick, Fellaini could go in for Mata too. Young and Val as fresh wide options.

A couple of solid CB's and a new RB and that looks like a very good team.

Having ADM on the left of a midfield trio is essential to getting the best out of him. He was epic there in the 4-3 El Classico even though Madrid lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhSInGGPqiE

Rob Thomas · 12-01-2015 04:35PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ive seen a few people now focus on our goals conceded stats to say that the defence isnt the problem, thats very very baffling when its plainly obvious to see that our problems are coming from this, along with the formation and players playing out of position.

Phil Jones and Chris Smalling cannot pass the ball, Tyler Blackett just hoofs it into the air. Mcnair is slow and unsure, Evans is having his worst season ever.

Jones and Smalling gave away the ball 20 times between them yesterday.
Blackett hoofed the ball long on 10 occasions, despite only touching the ball 17 times.

look at the long ball stat from a few posts up - it sums it all up, we are the biggest long ball team in the PL.

we attempted 84 long balls yesterday and 30 crosses - thats as bad as the crossing farce V Fulham around 12 months ago.

so, when we have a defence that cannot pass the ball, it gives the opposition room for maneuver - if they press us, we lose possession easily. then our midfield and attack needs to sit deep and our strikers get isolated.

Koeman made it very clear where our problems were and how they would play against us - he can see it, most fans on here and in the ground can see it, but some lads refuse to see that the route of our problems is that our defenders are killing our ability to get control of games and attack.

we only attempted 3 through balls in the whole game, one each from Rooney, RVP and Di Maria - again thats shocking.

we were absolutely brutal, even at half time the lads i was talking to in the concourse were saying its one of the worst performances in 4 or 5 years.

not really, its been coming for 2 months - results have masked very poor performances. our football has not improved since Moyes left and to be honest, at at times its been shambolic (southampton away, first half v arsenal, at home to Palace, away to Villa who had 10 men for 40% of the game etc etc).

there is nothing knee-jerk about the reaction today, especially when it comes after one win in 5, 6 points out of 15.

I agree to a certain extent, especially with players out of position but it's not quite as bad as this.

The biggest issue at the moment is the persisting with 3 at the back and passing the ball out of the back with players who are completely unable to pass the ball. You can't build a team that way. The system has to suit the personnel.

Jones, Evans, Blackett et all have proven time and again that they are not happy with the ball at their feet. Either get players who are, or drop the tactic.

Rayne Wooney · 12-01-2015 04:36PM

ericzeking wrote: »

I believe that if we kept Moyes, got rid of who we got rid of (ie. the players who didn't want to play for him...Rio, Vidic, Evra) and spent the money we did spend we would be better off this season.........

>>>>>>>>Runs for cover!!!!!!

I believe Moyes probably would have turned us into a consistent top 4 team but I don't think he is a winner of trophies, you need something extra, the right mixture of self-assuredness, arrogance, ruthlessness and determination. Van Gaal has shown in the past that he has it

Rob Thomas · 12-01-2015 04:39PM

ericzeking wrote: »

I believe that if we kept Moyes, got rid of who we got rid of (ie. the players who didn't want to play for him...Rio, Vidic, Evra) and spent the money we did spend we would be better off this season.........

>>>>>>>>Runs for cover!!!!!!

What's your basis for that? What do you think Moyes would have done differently to LVG ( apart from a flat back 4, which is a gimme), or got out of the players differently?

Genuine question.

Trond · 12-01-2015 04:54PM

ericzeking wrote: »

I believe that if we kept Moyes, got rid of who we got rid of (ie. the players who didn't want to play for him...Rio, Vidic, Evra) and spent the money we did spend we would be better off this season.........

>>>>>>>>Runs for cover!!!!!!

At least Moyes would have ensured we'd make it "difficult" for Newcastle coming to OT.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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