Athiests - Who cares

PopePalpatine · 08-01-2015 03:15PM

vicwatson wrote: »

Atheists have symbols of christianity shovelled down their throats everyday in this country - from bongs at 12.00 noon to bongs at 18.00 on our national tv and radio stations to joe Duffy thanking "God" every 2 minutes

And it only gets worse once you have kids.

I'd say if that religious ethoses were dropped by publicly-funded schools, baptisms would drop too by at least 30%.

Philo Beddoe · 08-01-2015 03:15PM

lazygal wrote: »

That's your belief.
I say yes to Hawaiian pizzas festooned with pineapple. With biscuits, ie jaffa cakes, for pudding.

You sicken me, heathen.

keithclancy · 08-01-2015 03:22PM

Akrasia wrote: »

Atheists don't believe in god. Nontheists believe there is no god.

All agnostics are atheists, no agnostics are nontheists, all nontheists are atheists

Also you can have a Religion while being an Atheist

Like these crazy racists

http://creativitymovement.net/

Peist2007 · 08-01-2015 03:31PM

constance tench wrote: »

Quite...

If i were you i'd keep my posts short too. Less is definitely more in the game you're playing

smash · 08-01-2015 03:32PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

If i were you i'd keep my posts short too. Less is definitely more in the game you're playing

If you play connect the dots with his/her posts you could almost make a sentence

constance tench · 08-01-2015 03:35PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Give me a list of the most important ones, seeing as there are many.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifical_Academy_of_Sciences

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_science#Pontifical_Academy_of_Sciences

constance tench · 08-01-2015 03:35PM

smash wrote: »

If you play connect the dots with his/her posts you could almost make a sentence

Good man...

TheChizler · 08-01-2015 03:36PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Some believe in a God.
Others believe no God exists.
Believing in God is a definite position.
Believing in no existence of God is a definite position.
Neither side can be sure they are correct, they just presume they are correct, whether through faith or belief in their position.

I'm not agnostic but surely this is the most balanced approach if you don't believe in a God, given neither side can be 100% sure their position is correct.

You're forgetting the basic atheist position, not believing in a God. Not the same thing as your second position.

Peist2007 · 08-01-2015 03:40PM

constance tench wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifical_Academy_of_Sciences

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_science#Pontifical_Academy_of_Sciences

Did they issue a formal apology to Galileo in 1936 on the formation of their science faculty?

Akrasia · 08-01-2015 03:45PM

vicwatson wrote: »

Atheists have symbols of christianity shovelled down their throats everyday in this country - from bongs at 12.00 noon to bongs at 18.00 on our national tv and radio stations to joe Duffy thanking "God" every 2 minutes

If everyone on RTE is doing bongs at 12 noon and 6pm every day, that actually does explain quite a lot

TheChizler · 08-01-2015 03:49PM

Akrasia wrote: »

All agnostics are atheists, no agnostics are nontheists, all nontheists are atheists

Apart from agnostic theists and nontheists, agnostic nontheists, the third one is correct though.

constance tench · 08-01-2015 03:49PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Did they issue a formal apology to Galileo in 1936 on the formation of their science faculty?

I'm pretty sure he was dead by then.

Grayson · 08-01-2015 03:51PM

TheChizler wrote: »

You're forgetting the basic atheist position, not believing in a God. Not the same thing as your second position.

It's also down to the definition of belief. In his first statement "Some believe in a God" He's using belief in a religious way. That belief implies religious faith

However when atheists say they believe there is no God they are not saying they believe in the same way. It's more like the first definition below whereas religious usage is like the 4th definition

noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction:
a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof:
a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust:
a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith:
the Christian belief.

RDM_83 again · 08-01-2015 03:53PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

And it only gets worse once you have kids.

I'd say if that religious ethoses were dropped by publicly-funded schools, baptisms would drop too by at least 30%.

See this is exactly what I mean by the Anti-theist Atheist thing, your concern isn;t just sending you kids to a school you like, you hope by reducing the amount of religious schools you'l reduce the amount of religious people. Its similar to the proselyting done by theists but I'd argue that its actually more common as you actually don;t encounter any mainstream christians or Muslims trying to convert you (fringe groups yes)

Peist2007 · 08-01-2015 03:54PM

constance tench wrote: »

I'm pretty sure he was dead by then.

Did they though?

Grayson · 08-01-2015 03:55PM

btw, I'm actually disappointed I was to busy to contribute to about 20 pages of this discussion.

I have degrees in philosophy and I never get to use them. This is the only time I get to think that 50% of my college time was worth it

papu · 08-01-2015 03:56PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

See this is exactly what I mean by the Anti-theist Atheist thing, your concern isn;t just sending you kids to a school you like, you hope by reducing the amount of religious schools you'l reduce the amount of religious people. Its similar to the proselyting done by theists but I'd argue that its actually more common as you actually don;t encounter any mainstream christians or Muslims trying to convert you (fringe groups yes)

I don't see anything wrong with religion being thought in schools , as long as it covers all religions equally and is an optional class. If my son wants to worship Thor I will let him.

constance tench · 08-01-2015 03:56PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Did they though?

They might have said a prayer for him.

Tar.Aldarion · 08-01-2015 03:58PM

Your degrees in philosophy don't really exist man.

smash · 08-01-2015 03:59PM

constance tench wrote: »

They might have said a prayer for him.

In the words of Ricky Gervais: My thoughts and prayers are with those who think that thoughts and prayers can actually make a difference.

Sofiztikated · 08-01-2015 04:00PM

papu wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with religion being thought in schools , as long as it covers all religions equally and is an optional class. If my son wants to worship Thor I will let him.

It's ok, my Mrs worships Chris Helmsworth already.

RDM_83 again · 08-01-2015 04:02PM

papu wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with religion being thought in schools , as long as it covers all religions equally and is an optional class. If my son wants to worship Thor I will let him.

Why though? if the core curriculum is covered and you have your choice to send your kids to the education you want why does it make a difference where they send their kids and why would you like to make it more difficult for them?
If you could show religion is actively harmful to children or adults I might see your point but apart from some fringe nutters (who would be nutters anyway) I haven't seen anything to associate a some-one being religious to having a worse situation.
Atheism might correlate well with intelligence and working in STEM but it doesn' correlate so well with well being and mental health (not saying its God doing it I personally think we're evolved to have religious type beliefs as a coping mechanism for our runaway intelligence and over advanced consciousness)

Peist2007 · 08-01-2015 04:05PM

constance tench wrote: »

They might have said a prayer for him.

So, nothing then.

:rolleyes:

smash · 08-01-2015 04:11PM

papu wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with religion being thought in schools , as long as it covers all religions equally and is an optional class. If my son wants to worship Thor I will let him.

I wouldn't have an issue if religion was taught in class, but only from secondary school as an optional subject and the class was about the history of religions rather than the teachings and ramming opinions and beliefs down the throats of our youth. Example being than schools should not talk about god and the devil without going into the history behind it of the sun(light) vs moon(dark) and how this transcribed and evolved over centuries to become a man made myth of god vs the devil, and the equivalent in other religions. The subject should also have a strong focus on the dangers of religions causing wars etc. Education is what's required, not a direct and forced belief system which is stated as fact.

PopePalpatine · 08-01-2015 04:11PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

See this is exactly what I mean by the Anti-theist Atheist thing, your concern isn;t just sending you kids to a school you like, you hope by reducing the amount of religious schools you'l reduce the amount of religious people. Its similar to the proselyting done by theists but I'd argue that its actually more common as you actually don;t encounter any mainstream christians or Muslims trying to convert you (fringe groups yes)

I have no problem with a religion class in schools if it's something along the lines of "Christians believe A, Muslims believe B, Hindus believe C etc." The problem is that's not the case in religious schools. Why must my (hypothetical) childrens' rights to a secular education, as is guaranteed in this country's constitution, be trampled?

The state should not fund religious indoctrination in schools, because that inherently creates discrimination.

TheChizler · 08-01-2015 04:13PM

Grayson wrote: »

It's also down to the definition of belief. In his first statement "Some believe in a God" He's using belief in a religious way. That belief implies religious faith

However when atheists say they believe there is no God they are not saying they believe in the same way. It's more like the first definition below whereas religious usage is like the 4th definition

noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction:
a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof:
a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust:
a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith:
the Christian belief.

I'm not sure how you got that was objectively what was being said. I would have thought it was the common definition, #1 above. We'll have to wait for clarification. And again, the minority of atheists would state that they believe there is no god. This is something quite a lot of people misunderstand. Since we're using dictionaries...

dictionary.com wrote:

atheist
[ey-thee-ist] Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Though this definition seems to bridge the division we're trying to make, the thing in common between denying and disbelieving is disbelief. Disbelief the more inclusive of the two definitions, and in my experience, so I'm open to correction, the one that a greater number of atheists use.

papu · 08-01-2015 04:14PM

smash wrote: »

I wouldn't have an issue if religion was taught in class, but only from secondary school as an optional subject and the class was about the history of religions rather than the teachings and ramming opinions and beliefs down the throats of our youth. Example being than schools should not talk about god and the devil without going into the history behind it of the sun(light) vs moon(dark) and how this transcribed and evolved over centuries to become a man made myth of god vs the devil, and the equivalent in other religions. The subject should also have a strong focus on the dangers of religions causing wars etc. Education is what's required, not a direct and forced belief system which is stated as fact.

Well yes I should have clarified , secondary schools , children are far too gullible. History of religion does sound like a better topic

smash · 08-01-2015 04:16PM

papu wrote: »

Well yes I should have clarified , secondary schools , children are far too gullible. History of religion does sound like a better topic

Exactly. If you're going to teach about beliefs of a religion or of various religions then you can't say "The book says". You have to discuss where it all came from in the first place.

Peist2007 · 08-01-2015 04:17PM

Genuinely doubt the church would allow the history of religion to be taught. Too bloody, too many pointless deaths; all of which would only reinforce home to any young inquisitive mind just how stupid and pointless it all was once it outlived its usefulness three or four hundred years ago.

papu · 08-01-2015 04:20PM

smash wrote: »

Exactly. If you're going to teach about beliefs of a religion or of various religions then you can't say "The book says". You have to discuss where it all came from in the first place.

It makes it all seem much more preposterous an implausible anyway. Religion in history has had a very violent and negative impact on mankind.

Athiests - Who cares

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