Local property tax 2015 & TV licence

Woshy · 03-01-2015 12:13pm #1

We bought our house in mid-October. Am I right that we are liable for the 2015 property tax? I can't find much info on the revenue website (I hate that site!) about new homeowners. Will a letter with a pin etc be sent to us? I heard on the radio it needs to be paid by 7th January but I've no info on what I need to do to sort it out or how to pay. Anyone have any experience of this? I'll contact revenue on Monday if I have to but that's always such a painful experience.

Also the previous owner left us a TV licence letter saying the TV licence runs out in the 31st December 2014 so I need to arrange to pay this. Do I just need to contact them directly to change the licence into my name and arrange to pay? Again, I couldn't see much info for new homeowners. When we were renting our landlord paid the TV licence so I've never had to buy one before.

Thanks in advance. Being a grown up is complicated sometimes!

athtrasna · 03-01-2015 12:20pm

Just log on to tvlivence.ie and set up your own licence. No need to transfer anything

Woshy · 03-01-2015 12:22pm

athtrasna wrote: »

Just log on to tvlivence.ie and set up your own licence. No need to transfer anything

Great, thanks. Doing my admin today

GalwayMagpie · 04-01-2015 9:55am

Woshy wrote: »

We bought our house in mid-October. Am I right that we are liable for the 2015 property tax? I can't find much info on the revenue website (I hate that site!) about new homeowners. Will a letter with a pin etc be sent to us? I heard on the radio it needs to be paid by 7th January but I've no info on what I need to do to sort it out or how to pay. Anyone have any experience of this? I'll contact revenue on Monday if I have to but that's always such a painful experience.

I am in the same boat, so advice would be appreciated. I agree about the Revenue website, it is a pathetic and confusing mishmash of conflicting instructions.

dazberry · 04-01-2015 11:32am

Everything you need to know should be here.

If you do not have your Property ID or PIN you can apply on-line to have your Property ID and PIN reissued to you. If you cannot apply online you should call the helpline on 1890 200 255. If you paid your 2014 LPT in one lump sum or made regular cash payments, you will receive a letter from Revenue which will include your Property ID and PIN.

D.

Woshy · 04-01-2015 6:44pm

dazberry wrote: »

Everything you need to know should be here.

D.

I did see that online but I can t tell if it applies to new homeowners. I'm not reapplying and I don't have a property ID etc. it's really not very clear. Looks like I'll be calling them tomorrow. Urgh

ezra_pound · 04-01-2015 6:54pm

You're not liable for the lpt in 2015 if you didn't own the property on 1/11/2014.

Woshy · 04-01-2015 10:09pm

ezra_pound wrote: »

You're not liable for the lpt in 2015 if you didn't own the property on 1/11/2014.

As per my first post we bought the property in October.

ezra_pound · 04-01-2015 11:55pm

Woshy wrote: »

As per my first post we bought the property in October.

... Which means that you are liable. What's the confusion?

ezra_pound · 05-01-2015 12:01am

If it's a new house- first owner- then you may be exempt but either way register as you were the owner on the liability date. You can apply for the exemption then. If it's not a new build-first owner situation then I can't see how you will be exempt in 2015.

Woshy · 05-01-2015 11:10am

Ok, for anyone in the same situation, I called revenue this morning and after 25 minutes on hold I was told to ring my solicitor and get the previous property ID, then call them back and they'll transfer me to head office to register the property to us. Pity they couldn't put that on their website and saved me thirty minutes.

I've left a message with my solicitor so we'll see how straightforward or not this will be. Hopefully it won't take too long.

JoeySully · 05-01-2015 12:10pm

We closed a sale on Nov 24th 2015. Our solicitor told us we had to pay the vendor the property tax for December 2014 and all of 2015. Is this correct??

yllw.ldbttr · 05-01-2015 12:17pm

My experience: We closed early December 2014.

The house we sold - we paid for 2015 and the purchaser agreed to repay the cash to us.

The house we purchased - vendor paid for 2015 and we agreed to repay the cash to him.

Solicitor sorted the cash on both sides as part of the closing, seems to be the norm.

Woshy · 05-01-2015 12:19pm

Ok, all sorted now. I got the property ID from my solicitor as requested, then didn't actually need it as when I gave the guy in the lpt head office my pps number had been registered against our property. Conflicting advice again!

Still, it's done now and wasn't as painful as I thought.

JoeySully · 05-01-2015 12:21pm

Thats good to hear.

After paying for 2015 to the vendor we realised that the vendor was paying LPT at a higher rate than the house sold for. It was 60€ more

Is it possible to change the LPT rate that you pay?

ezra_pound · 05-01-2015 2:30pm

JoeySully wrote: »

We closed a sale on Nov 24th 2015. Our solicitor told us we had to pay the vendor the property tax for December 2014 and all of 2015. Is this correct??

No. Previous owner is liable for all of 2015.

fatb0y · 06-01-2015 1:24pm

Woshy wrote: »

Ok, all sorted now. I got the property ID from my solicitor as requested, then didn't actually need it as when I gave the guy in the lpt head office my pps number had been registered against our property. Conflicting advice again!

Still, it's done now and wasn't as painful as I thought.

Thanks Woshy, I was in a similar situation and did not know how to go about paying the tax for 2015 as we bought a place last year... your post was very helpful... all sorted now :-)

JoeySully · 06-01-2015 1:46pm

ezra_pound wrote: »

No. Previous owner is liable for all of 2015.

Yes previous owner is Liable but we had to reimburse the Vendor for the Tax paid. that what our solicitor told us anyway.

johnnyskeleton · 06-01-2015 1:47pm

JoeySully wrote: »

Thats good to hear.

After paying for 2015 to the vendor we realised that the vendor was paying LPT at a higher rate than the house sold for. It was 60€ more

Is it possible to change the LPT rate that you pay?

If you got a valuation report for the house you could semd this to revenue as proof of its value. If you bought the house for full market value then reveue should adjust the lpt cost. But if you bought it for an undervalue then not.

Brego888 · 06-01-2015 3:07pm

Anyone have a direct number for lpt head office? I'm in the same boat as Fatb0y and Woshy but I have my property pin so would be useful to just ring them directly instead of the long wait on the helpline.

ezra_pound · 06-01-2015 4:07pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If you got a valuation report for the house you could semd this to revenue as proof of its value. If you bought the house for full market value then reveue should adjust the lpt cost. But if you bought it for an undervalue then not.

Remember valuation date is may 2013.

ezra_pound · 06-01-2015 4:09pm

JoeySully wrote: »

Yes previous owner is Liable but we had to reimburse the Vendor for the Tax paid. that what our solicitor told us anyway.

Well technically that's wrong. He's liable for that full year. Kind and charitable of you I must say. If he's liable then why do you need to reimburse him?

JoeySully · 06-01-2015 4:20pm

that's what im trying to find out. there seems to be 2 different views here.
We were not going to get our keys until the money had been paid.

ezra_pound · 06-01-2015 4:24pm

It's his liability. If you agreed in the contract to paying part of his lpt liability then it makes sense.

But legally, technically, he is demanding that you assume a liability from him without any thing in return. If it wasn't in the contract he cannot do this.

Then again anything for a quiet life.

kennethsmyth · 06-01-2015 4:29pm

Its as follows.

Per Revenue:
The person owning the house on the 1st of November pays the next year 01/11/14 - owner pays for 2015.

Per the sale of the house:
House changes ownership on the 24th November. Old owner has paid up to the 31/12/14 and also up to the 31/12/15 already.

You will be living in the house from 24/11/14 so solicitors apportion the payments already made (apportionment account) to allow for fairness for any expenses paid in advance that relate to the house.

Therefore you will pay back the vendor the full 2015 lpt and also 1 month 6 days (or 37 days exactly) of 2014.

ezra_pound · 06-01-2015 4:44pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Its as follows.

Per Revenue:
The person owning the house on the 1st of November pays the next year 01/11/14 - owner pays for 2015.

Per the sale of the house:
House changes ownership on the 24th November. Old owner has paid up to the 31/12/14 and also up to the 31/12/15 already.

You will be living in the house from 24/11/14 so solicitors apportion the payments already made (apportionment account) to allow for fairness for any expenses paid in advance that relate to the house.

Therefore you will pay back the vendor the full 2015 lpt and also 1 month 6 days (or 37 days exactly) of 2014.

Only if you agree to it in the contract.

ezra_pound · 06-01-2015 4:47pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Its as follows.

Per Revenue:
The person owning the house on the 1st of November pays the next year 01/11/14 - owner pays for 2015.

Per the sale of the house:
House changes ownership on the 24th November. Old owner has paid up to the 31/12/14 and also up to the 31/12/15 already.

You will be living in the house from 24/11/14 so solicitors apportion the payments already made (apportionment account) to allow for fairness for any expenses paid in advance that relate to the house.

Therefore you will pay back the vendor the full 2015 lpt and also 1 month 6 days (or 37 days exactly) of 2014.

Legally this is rubbish.

kennethsmyth · 06-01-2015 5:30pm

ezra_pound wrote: »

Legally this is rubbish.

Explain how? I have not said this is the legal position.

I have said the position of Revenue and then the position for the vendors solicitor and purchasers solicitor. This is the norm in all property transactions - to identify property costs that maybe paid in advance and offset/add to the purchase price.

There is no legal position on this other than what I have said is Revenues position - that the owner on the 1st November owes the LPT.

ezra_pound · 07-01-2015 12:39am

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Explain how? I have not said this is the legal position.

I have said the position of Revenue and then the position for the vendors solicitor and purchasers solicitor. This is the norm in all property transactions - to identify property costs that maybe paid in advance and offset/add to the purchase price.

There is no legal position on this other than what I have said is Revenues position - that the owner on the 1st November owes the LPT.

Legally there is no reason or obligation that you would apportion the liability based on the fact that you live there in 2015, any more than that you are obliged to give them a free subscription to national geographic or playboy.

Of course if you want to agree to this in the contact as part of the consideration for purchasing the property so be it:

I will purchase title in your property in exchange for my stamp collection, 20£ and compensation for your lpt liability re the property for 2015.

There is no basis in law for apportionment of the liability based on the fact that you own the property in 2015, or live there.

martingriff · 07-01-2015 12:54am

JoeySully wrote: »

We closed a sale on Nov 24th 2015. Our solicitor told us we had to pay the vendor the property tax for December 2014 and all of 2015. Is this correct??

Thats impressive
:P

ezra_pound · 07-01-2015 12:55am

OK. So the law society recommends that it should be apportioned.

I'll politely leave this thread and argue with them instead.

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Solicitors/Practising/Practice-Notes/Local-Property-Tax/#.VKyDYPlFDqA

IrishAlice · 08-01-2015 10:13am

Hi everyone, I've ended up in a situation that kind of relates to this and I'm looking for some advice.

We purchased a house in December and the sale closed 22nd December.

The LPT was paid by the vendor and we were not advised by our solicitor that we would have to repay this amount to the vendor.

Part of our contract of sale was that the vendors remove all furniture from the house. They didn't do this and when our solicitor contacted them about this matter they said that they paid the LPT when they didn't have to and that they'd pay for a skip but we'd have to pay them the difference of the LPT owed.

I'm absolutely furious about the whole thing. The vendors basically shook us down for an extra 2k to close the sale on the house, left all broken appliances in the house which we had to get fixed or replace and now this!

I'm adamant that I'm not giving them another red cent but just want to know where I stand legally. I can't for the life of me understand why our solicitor didn't advise us of this potential cost.

We're first time buyers and every penny we have left has been budgeted out for necessary works that need to be carried out on the property

yllw.ldbttr · 08-01-2015 10:22am

IrishAlice wrote: »

Hi everyone, I've ended up in a situation that kind of relates to this and I'm looking for some advice.

We purchased a house in December and the sale closed 22nd December.

The LPT was paid by the vendor and we were not advised by our solicitor that we would have to repay this amount to the vendor.

Part of our contract of sale was that the vendors remove all furniture from the house. They didn't do this and when our solicitor contacted them about this matter they said that they paid the LPT when they didn't have to and that they'd pay for a skip but we'd have to pay them the difference of the LPT owed.

I'm absolutely furious about the whole thing. The vendors basically shook us down for an extra 2k to close the sale on the house, left all broken appliances in the house which we had to get fixed or replace and now this!

I'm adamant that I'm not giving them another red cent but just want to know where I stand legally. I can't for the life of me understand why our solicitor didn't advise us of this potential cost.

We're first time buyers and every penny we have left has been budgeted out for necessary works that need to be carried out on the property

I can sympathise with you. We closed early December and were left in a similar position.
Vendor left food, rubbish, furniture, broken appliances, everything, he pretty much just packed a bag and walked away. The place hadn't been cleaned in ages.

We were initially raging and ready to go back to the solicitor, but at the end of the day all we would achieve is further frustration and at best the cost of a skip.
We decided to write off a couple of days to cleaning and a few hundred euro to the cost of a skip and move on. It's too easy to let something like this take the good out of a new home and set you off on the wrong footing.
We sold some of the stuff, gave a lot to charity and dumped the rest, then we just forgot about it. You've been through enough stress with the purchase and the move, give yourself a break.

I know we had the legal right to pursue the vendor but really it's just sometimes not worth it.

IrishAlice · 08-01-2015 10:36am

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

I can sympathise with you. We closed early December and were left in a similar position.
Vendor left food, rubbish, furniture, broken appliances, everything, he pretty much just packed a bag and walked away. The place hadn't been cleaned in ages.

We were initially raging and ready to go back to the solicitor, but at the end of the day all we would achieve is further frustration and at best the cost of a skip.
We decided to write off a couple of days to cleaning and a few hundred euro to the cost of a skip and move on. It's too easy to let something like this take the good out of a new home and set you off on the wrong footing.
We sold some of the stuff, gave a lot to charity and dumped the rest, then we just forgot about it. You've been through enough stress with the purchase and the move, give yourself a break.

I know we had the legal right to pursue the vendor but really it's just sometimes not worth it.

If we had of known that they would come back looking for the money for the 2015 property tax we probably wouldn't have pursued the issue but our solicitor never advised us of that possibility.

Now we're stuck in a situation where we owe the vendors money even though they left us with a filthy dirty house full of junk. Even the attic is full of rubbish.

You're right about just suffering the cost, we've both agreed we'll just pay for the skip but I'm adamant I'm not paying the vendors any more money.

The whole thing is just so upsetting and has really left a sour taste to the whole experience

I hope you're all sorted with your house now and enjoying having it clean at last

yllw.ldbttr · 08-01-2015 10:42am

IrishAlice wrote: »

If we had of known that they would come back looking for the money for the 2015 property tax we probably wouldn't have pursued the issue but our solicitor never advised us of that possibility.

Now we're stuck in a situation where we owe the vendors money even though they left us with a filthy dirty house full of junk. Even the attic is full of rubbish.

You're right about just suffering the cost, we've both agreed we'll just pay for the skip but I'm adamant I'm not paying the vendors any more money.

The whole thing is just so upsetting and has really left a sour taste to the whole experience

I hope you're all sorted with your house now and enjoying having it clean at last

Unless you actually agreed to refund the LPT to them you do not have a liability.
We agreed to repay it to the vendor and the guys that bought our house agreed to rebate it to us... But as my solicitor explained nobody was obliged to refund any LPT.

Instruct your solicitor to advise their solicitor that you are not repaying the LPT.
Pay the cost of the skip yourself.

That's all you can do I think.

Local property tax 2015 & TV licence

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