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Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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Comments

  • #542
    Headshot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,089 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    You mean compared to other supporters or other community's or both?

    Compared to other super threads (fans) on this SF

    I don't think there's one trouble maker besides your self Kew ;) among us


  • #543
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,307 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Headshot wrote: »
    Compared to other super threads (fans) on this SF

    I don't think there's one trouble maker besides your self Kew ;) among us

    Haha.

    Ya I would tend to agree with you on that.

    Good mix of discussion and bit of banter when needed.

    EVENFLOW



  • #544
    adox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,057 ✭✭✭✭adox


    Trond wrote: »
    At least it will mean an end to 352

    How so? The only hope of a regular back four being played is when both of them are fully fit.


  • #545
    secman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,980 ✭✭✭secman


    Great to see Angel back, badly missed in those recent draws, when we needed a bit of magic.


  • #546
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    '3-5-2' is this season's version of 'Young/Clev/Valencia' consistently appearing on the teamsheet last season; It almost makes me get sick in my mouth each time I see it and I can't help but think 'Why?' given the evidence that it just isn't working.

    Herrera's goal was sublime. The pass wasn't meant for him given it was a strong deflection which brought it to his feet, but how many of our CMs would have taken that shot on given their back was to the goal, about 23 yards out, and surrounded by opposing defenders? I know it is hard to picture an alternate 'If' reality, but any of our other CMs in that situation I see them trying to secure the ball and make a pass. The only other in the recent past I can think of with such vision and execution is this man...



    Of course the goal above is in a different galaxy to Herrera's goal, but there are many attributes of Herrera's game that remind me of Scholsey's and the knowledge of where the goal is and the abilty to plant the ball there out of the blue is one of them. Today's team performance vs fúckin Yeovil was atrocious, but I am delighted to see Herrera back and with a quality goal to hopefully boost his confidence.

    The only other positive I'm taking from today is a good performance from Di Maria. Not only did he keep Yeovil from equalising and who knows how that would have changed the game, but he then went and sealed the victory for us with his staggering pace and a perfect chip. I get a little nervous when in one on one situations the player goes to dink it over the keeper; You see so many of these go wrong, but the man on the ball was ADM and his finish was class. Another returning 'new' player who could do with the confidence from a good goal.

    All going to plan, Fellaini and Rojo will be back in the squad for the game vs Southampton but whether LVG chooses to start either of them is another thing. I for one will be glad though to see Fellaini back and this should also provide the means to not have to play Fletcher so often. Same goes for Rojo over Evans. I have been a fan of Evans in recent years but he isn't doing the job as of late. While I don't want to see him gone, I feel Rojo will be the far better option when he's back.

    All in all, a few utterly crap performances in mind, I have to remember that we've come through an over-packed December/xmas/new year's schedule in pretty good order. The dropped points vs Villa, Spurs and Stoke were disappointing, all the more so when compared to City and Chelsea also dropping points. However we have been lucky to win some games too so it kind of balances out.

    The main thing now is to secure third in the league and what happens above us with Chelsea and City is now secondary to that. I would love to see us sign a CB and a RB in this window if the right ones were available, but I'm not entertaining transfer gossip and notions for at least another 2 weeks.biggrin.png


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  • #547
    Peanut Butter Jelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    What's peoples opinion on us going for Fabian Schar this month? I know he mightn't be world class but I think he could tide us over until the summer when the likes of Hummels would be easier to get.


  • #548
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    Delighted for him, but before anyone has any thought about regret in getting rid if him, it was not.

    He is a manager of the underdog and he is a good one in that circumstance.

    Moyes got 1 player last summer and that was Fellaini. I feel if he'd have gotten Di Maria, Falcao, Herrera, Blind, Shaw and Rojo it'd have looked a lot better. If Moyes was doing what LVG is now with regards performances he'd be getting dogs abuse after spending so much money. He ultimately never got a chance and was treated disgracefully by players who were the first that LVG shipped out.


  • #549
    Giggsy11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭Giggsy11


    Liam O wrote: »
    Moyes got 1 player last summer and that was Fellaini. I feel if he'd have gotten Di Maria, Falcao, Herrera, Blind, Shaw and Rojo it'd have looked a lot better. If Moyes was doing what LVG is now with regards performances he'd be getting dogs abuse after spending so much money. He ultimately never got a chance and was treated disgracefully by players who were the first that LVG shipped out.

    Not sure how anyone can defend Moyes after what happened last season.

    Lost 4-1 and 3-0 to City.
    3-1 to Chelsea
    1-0 and 3-0 to Liverpool
    Lost to Spurs at home.
    Lost 1-0 and 3-0 to Everton
    Lost to Newcastle, WBA at home
    Lost to Sunderland at home.

    Couldn't beat any of the top teams, forget beating IIRC we only drew against Chelsea and Spurs and Southampton in top 8 teams and only beat Stoke in top 10 teams.

    Players didn't help either but that's down to Manager. One year we have a manager who was like fcuk Madrid, we will do them and next year we have uninspiring manager who was like "we will make it hard for Newcastle at Old Trafford". Players who won loads couldn't take any of this loser mentality.

    Also there were rumors that most of the players were not happy with his training methods which for most part was without ball.

    Moyes had time to make deals, he didn't. He chose not to. Strootman, Thiago, Garay could have been signed but he didn't. He can't blame anyone as ManUtd spent 64 Million on 2 players.

    Edit: I have already posted this, but will repeat Van Gaal achieved whatever he did this season with the same old squad minus Rio, Vidic, Evra, Carrick for most season, Hernandez, Welbeck and Kagawa.

    New signings hardly played any games.
    This is one line that is used by opposition fans when talking about improvement. The common line is "yeah he has spent 150 Million so it's hard not to improve" but no one points out that our new signings hardly played. Btw I know your post was sarcastic one. I'm just saying in general.

    All the 6 players played combined 4144 mins which is 46 games between them.
    In total (for 11 players) we have played 18810 mins in the league. So that's only 22% of the total mins our new signings played.

    So for 11 players total games will be 209 (11*19) and our new players played 46 games between them. Or average of just 7 games per player.

    More or less Van Gaal achieved everything with same old players minus Vidic, Rio, Evra, Welbeck, Nani, Hernandez, Carrick who missed around 50% games

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93603700&postcount=9635


  • #550
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There's probably a reason for without the ball training, United have a lot of technical players but their off the ball pressing is atrocious at times. You say he had time to make deals? I'd argue Woodward shut down a deal for Herrera at least who Moyes clearly wanted and didn't get. He wasn't backed with anything like the money LVG has been.

    Mata was an opportunistic signing that made sense for his talent level but I feel if it wasn't for him being Mata there'd probably have been nothing in January. It was clear that more players were needed and Moyes seemed to make deals for the Summer which Woodward was happy to sign off on but then doesn't allow him to use them.

    The squad was nowhere near good enough last season and I feel the crap hasn't been weeded out as well as if Moyes had stayed. Only the money spent has Van Gaal's team in the top 4 atm with Di Maria, Rojo and Blind contributing a lot this season even if the others haven't been huge contributors.


  • #551
    Giggsy11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭Giggsy11


    Liam O wrote: »
    There's probably a reason for without the ball training, United have a lot of technical players but their off the ball pressing is atrocious at times. You say he had time to make deals? I'd argue Woodward shut down a deal for Herrera at least who Moyes clearly wanted and didn't get. He wasn't backed with anything like the money LVG has been.

    Mata was an opportunistic signing that made sense for his talent level but I feel if it wasn't for him being Mata there'd probably have been nothing in January. It was clear that more players were needed and Moyes seemed to make deals for the Summer which Woodward was happy to sign off on but then doesn't allow him to use them.

    The squad was nowhere near good enough last season and I feel the crap hasn't been weeded out as well as if Moyes had stayed. Only the money spent has Van Gaal's team in the top 4 atm with Di Maria, Rojo and Blind contributing a lot this season even if the others haven't been huge contributors.


    Keep repeating it until someday someone believes it.

    New players played only 22% of the total mins. Van Gaal is working with same squad minus Rio, Vidic, Evra, Hernandez, Welbeck, Kagawa, Nani abd Carrick for 50% games.

    He has made Fellaini somewhat useful and promoted players like Blackett, McNair and working with them.


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  • #552
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Giggsy11 wrote: »
    Keep repeating it until someday someone believes it.

    New players played only 22% of the total mins. Van Gaal is working with same squad minus Rio, Vidic, Evra, Hernandez, Welbeck, Kagawa, Nani abd Carrick for 50% games.

    He has made Fellaini somewhat useful and promoted players like Blackett, McNair and working with them.

    Right because Moyes didn't have any issues with players unable to play. A lot of that 22% number is due to his reluctance to play the new signings so how can that be used as a plus for him? Having midfield options of Carrick, Cleverley, an unfit Fellaini and Fletcher is a bit different to having Blind, Carrick (between both have been fit about the entire season), Di Maria, Herrera and Fletcher. Are you honestly trying to say that Di Maria, Blind and Rojo aren't responsible for points so far this season? Heck, Falcao has been responsible for 2 points which would have United on the cusp of falling out of the top 4. 37 points from 20 is just 3 more than last season at This stage, it's just lucky for now at least the competition isn't as high.


  • #553
    Giggsy11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭Giggsy11


    Liam O wrote: »
    Right because Moyes didn't have any issues with players unable to play. A lot of that 22% number is due to his reluctance to play the new signings so how can that be used as a plus for him? Having midfield options of Carrick, Cleverley, an unfit Fellaini and Fletcher is a bit different to having Blind, Carrick (between both have been fit about the entire season), Di Maria, Herrera and Fletcher. Are you honestly trying to say that Di Maria, Blind and Rojo aren't responsible for points so far this season? Heck, Falcao has been responsible for 2 points which would have United on the cusp of falling out of the top 4. 37 points from 20 is just 3 more than last season at This stage, it's just lucky for now at least the competition isn't as high.

    He had issues with injuries, I was talking about new players only and how many mins they played.

    Blind is injured, Shaw was injured, Herrera was out and not fully fit for many weeks, Rojo is out injured, Di Maria missed few weeks due to injury. Only player he was reluctant to use was Falcao.

    Moyes had Carrick, Fletcher, Cleverley, Fellaini as options? So whose mistake was that to reject Thiago, Strootman and Garay? He had all the time in the world to sign midfielders and he chose not to.

    Blind, Herrera are not world beaters, could have signed last year but we didn't because Moyes was not sure about Herrera at first and only during last few days he wanted him (as per few reports).

    So how many points did Welbeck, Hernandez, Kagawa won last season? How many options did Vidic, Evra, Rio provided for Moyes as defensive cover?

    If one player acted like **** then I would say it's player's mistake but when whole team wanted Moyes out then I know where the issue was.


  • #554
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,307 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Liam O wrote: »
    Moyes got 1 player last summer and that was Fellaini. I feel if he'd have gotten Di Maria, Falcao, Herrera, Blind, Shaw and Rojo it'd have looked a lot better. If Moyes was doing what LVG is now with regards performances he'd be getting dogs abuse after spending so much money. He ultimately never got a chance and was treated disgracefully by players who were the first that LVG shipped out.

    You could also argue that LVG injury list is off the scale .

    I can see your point in fairness, but I can see the progress and can see what LVG is trying to do.

    With Moyes, I never felt he had any type of positive tactical plan. The Fulham home game was a example.

    EVENFLOW



  • #555
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    I like Moyes as a person, and I was delighted to see him win against Barcelona.
    I think he was in a no win situation, the transfer window was a disaster to start with and one can point the blame at him there, he put too much faith in the existing squad given they had won the league easily enough.

    The job was too big for him, and it was like Fergie was always looking over his shoulder, then that chosen one thing didn't help with the perception of things.
    He needed to have a winning record, and that didn't exist.

    LVG in contrast has a winning record, an air of control and the charisma needed for the job. We can disagree with some of his choices but deep down there is a trust that he knows what he is doing and will h=get the club to where it should be in world football.
    He was the architect behind the success of Barcelona and Bayern Munich, and no reason why it won't be the same for us.

    Moyes had no success to fall back on, and the game play was not exciting to watch.
    The thing is the whole Moyes experiment might in the long run have been a positive for the club: the need for investment and the best possible, proven is better than potential if one wants success.


  • #556
    beno619
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭beno619


    Fergie has been to just as many United home games this season.

    "Fergie looking over his shoulder" was one of the most annoying, bull****ty excuses made for Moyes last season.

    Do we even need to reopen this debate ? onwards and upwards under a manager that can actually take the club forward.


  • #557
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    people are on about our lack of creativity yesterday and it was appaling. but, how can anybody (including LVG) be surprised when the starting 10 outfield players consists of 5 defenders plus Darran Fletcher in the team?

    this nonsense of 3 center halves has to stop, its not working - they either hoofed the ball into the stands or kept giving it away time and time again.


  • #558
    Giggsy11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭Giggsy11


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    people are on about our lack of creativity yesterday and it was appaling. but, how can anybody (including LVG) be surprised when the starting 10 outfield players consists of 5 defenders plus Darran Fletcher in the team?

    this nonsense of 3 center halves has to stop, its not working - they either hoofed the ball into the stands or kept giving it away time and time again.

    10 outfield players consisted of 5 defenders, Fletcher, 2 #9s in Falcao and Wilson.

    Only Herrera and Rooney are capable of passing or creating chances.


  • #559
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    beno619 wrote: »
    Fergie has been to just as many United home games this season.

    "Fergie looking over his shoulder" was one of the most annoying, bull****ty excuses made for Moyes last season.

    Do we even need to reopen this debate ? onwards and upwards under a manager that can actually take the club forward.

    That is not the point I am making.

    Moyes was the first after Fergie, a legend in the game, the media played to this. Moyes had no record of success but was being compared to one of the most successful managers in football.
    For LVG he has the success that rivals Fergie, he comes in after Moyes, so it doesn't matter if Fergie attends the same number of games. LVG has his own record and one could argue more in the Fergie mould than Moyes ever was.

    Moyes had no excuses, and when things went south he had no record to say he could turn things around to win things.
    We all saw how the cameras would turn to Fergie when things went wrong in a game, it was like a game the media played.
    I don't see it as an excuse, it didn't influence individual games, but the chosen one was like a curse on the club, sure Moyes got sacked and then both Liverpool teams started losing... :pac:


  • #560
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    beno619 wrote: »
    Fergie has been to just as many United home games this season.

    "Fergie looking over his shoulder" was one of the most annoying, bull****ty excuses made for Moyes last season.

    Do we even need to reopen this debate ? onwards and upwards under a manager that can actually take the club forward.

    In fairness, the media had a getgo story from the first ball was kicked, never mind the TV producers being able to go to a steady shot of Ferguson when things weren't going well.

    I don't think there was any issues with Ferguson, and I don't think Moyes felt any pressure in that regard, or there was any meddling.

    Noticeable how it doesn't happen this season, bar when another team score, the odd time the director flicks the camera on Fergie.

    I think that was a myth spun up by the media, moreso then there being any actual substance to it. Considering most clubs have their absolute legends and icons watching home games, I don't see how it was a unique situation for Moyes.

    Especially when you consider Beckenbauer and Munich, and how he isn't afraid to let the world know what he thinks of a manager or player. Ferguson handled that well keeping relatively quiet throughout.


  • #561
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    Giggsy11 wrote: »
    10 outfield players consisted of 5 defenders, Fletcher, 2 #9s in Falcao and Wilson.

    Only Herrera and Rooney are capable of passing or creating chances.

    And Rooney had one of his games where he just can't execute a short simple pass... then goes and plays an inch perfect 60 yarder for the 2nd goal.


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  • #562
    kstand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kstand


    Look, this 3-5-2 formation would work with the right players.
    The back 3 yesterday consisted of 2 novices and a fella who essentially came from non league football. The wingers were essentially 2 full backs. The centre of midfield had Fletcher who is finished. And Herrara, Rooney, Falcao and another rookie in Wilson in front of that.
    For the formation to work, you need 3 experienced ball playing quick centre halves, 2 attacking wingers who are willing to work back, a general in the holding role and 2 creative players in front of him and then 2 strikers, one of whom must have pace in spades.
    The current side is a mile off that.


  • #563
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,995 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Will I Amnt wrote: »
    And Rooney had one of his games where he just can't execute a short simple pass... then goes and plays an inch perfect 60 yarder for the 2nd goal.

    It's Rooney for you; games where he's useless for 89 minutes, 55 seconds are more and more common, but there'll always be 5 seconds that he'll do something like that. Issue comes when that moment comes too late in the game after the other team has conceded, or if everyone else isn't ready for it and those 5 seconds are waste....


  • #564
    beno619
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭beno619


    RobertKK wrote: »
    That is not the point I am making.

    Thats fair enough then, I mostly agree with your post.
    TheDoc wrote: »
    In fairness, the media had a getgo story from the first ball was kicked, never mind the TV producers being able to go to a steady shot of Ferguson when things weren't going well.

    Thats true,my issue was with people on the thread being sucked into the propaganda machine. There were lots of posters in here last season complaining about Fergie's presence in the stand.
    Lord TSC wrote: »
    It's Rooney for you; games where he's useless for 89 minutes, 55 seconds are more and more common, but there'll always be 5 seconds that he'll do something like that. Issue comes when that moment comes too late in the game after the other team has conceded, or if everyone else isn't ready for it and those 5 seconds are waste....

    A he's just not a midfielder at the end of the day. Formation and his use of our forwards would be my biggest criticism of LVG so far.


  • #565
    Trond
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭Trond


    Ive probably said it already in here but in regards to the 3-5-2 it isn't LVG's preferred formation.

    If/when he gets the defence and midfield sorted with both fully fit players and new signings we wont see 3-5-2 from him. At both Barca and Munich he played a 433 or a version of it.

    Its been used this season as a damage limitation formation given the weakness in midfield and injuries at the back.


  • #566
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,199 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Trond wrote: »
    Ive probably said it already in here but in regards to the 3-5-2 it isn't LVG's preferred formation.

    If/when he gets the defence and midfield sorted with both fully fit players and new signings we wont see 3-5-2 from him. At both Barca and Munich he played a 433 or a version of it.

    Its been used this season as a damage limitation formation given the weakness in midfield and injuries at the back.

    So we are playing fucking horrible in it and he doesn't like to use it anyway, so why do we continue to play it?

    We had the personnel available to play 4 at the back yesterday, so why did he start with 352?


  • #567
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,902 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Trond wrote: »
    Ive probably said it already in here but in regards to the 3-5-2 it isn't LVG's preferred formation.

    If/when he gets the defence and midfield sorted with both fully fit players and new signings we wont see 3-5-2 from him. At both Barca and Munich he played a 433 or a version of it.

    Its been used this season as a damage limitation formation given the weakness in midfield and injuries at the back.

    Said it myself too - LVG said recently he was playing 352 because Young and Valencia are not full backs, so couldn't play them as full backs. Was hoping with Shaw and Raf getting back to fitness that we would be looking at a back 4 again, but that didn't last long! Though it wouldn't explain why both Raf and Shaw started yesterday and we still played 352. Can only hope it was because LVG either didn't have, or was protecting, the midfield options.


  • #568
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,569 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Trond wrote: »
    Ive probably said it already in here but in regards to the 3-5-2 it isn't LVG's preferred formation.

    If/when he gets the defence and midfield sorted with both fully fit players and new signings we wont see 3-5-2 from him. At both Barca and Munich he played a 433 or a version of it.

    Its been used this season as a damage limitation formation given the weakness in midfield and injuries at the back.

    He had full backs and midfielders yesterday to move away from 3-5-2 so i don't know why your sure he will move away from 3-5-2.

    His persistence with playing Rooney in midfield is really annoying me. Playing players out of position so he can get as many big names on the field as he can. Which is unbalancing the team and making the side so slow and unproductive going foward.

    Play a midfielder and let Mata, Rooney, RVP and Falcao rotate for the top 3 positions and play Herrera ffs.


  • #569
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,569 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    DDG

    ---Raf
    Smalling----Rojo
    Shaw
    Carrick
    Di Maria
    Herrera
    Rooney
    RVP
    Falcao


  • #570
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,902 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Nuts102 wrote: »
    He had full backs and midfielders yesterday to move away from 3-5-2 so i don't know why your sure he will move away from 3-5-2.

    His persistence with playing Rooney in midfield is really annoying me. Playing players out of position so he can get as many big names on the field as he can. Which is unbalancing the team and making the side so slow and unproductive going foward.

    Play a midfielder and let Mata, Rooney, RVP and Falcao rotate for the top 3 positions and play Herrera ffs.

    Possibly:

    Fellaini injured, Blind injured.
    Carrick being rested, Mata being rested.
    Herrera only coming back to fitness.
    Fletcher doesn't have the engine to do more than sit anymore.
    Di Maria being eased back.

    It is possible that LVG didn't feel he had the options (through either injury or fixture list induced resting) to start with the 4 in midfield - and that he felt the players put out would show more capability in retaining and moving the ball around than they did.


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  • #571
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,199 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Nuts102 wrote: »
    His persistence with playing Rooney in midfield is really annoying me. Playing players out of position so he can get as many big names on the field as he can. Which is unbalancing the team and making the side so slow and unproductive going foward.

    Been saying this all season. If Moyes had been at this he would have been labelled as bowing to player pressure or something, but LVG gets away with it.

    And I'll also repeat what I said a few weeks ago, Wilson has done absolutely zilch to justify the gametime he is getting.


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