Mad to leave public service?

markeymark · 02-01-2015 10:42pm #1

My situation is as follows: I am an IT specialist in the public sector (not civil service) where I earn a decent salary slightly above the average industrial wage. My job is OK, I quite enjoy it for the most part. I am permanent and pensionable (lucky me

). I would say I am happy, but rarely out of my comfort zone!

However, I have been offered a position in mainland Europe for a well-known NGO on a 2 year contract. I worked for them before on secondment and enjoyed it very much. The salary is about 20% better than I receive now. The problem is, I won't have the fall back of my job back home this time around.

I fear that when my contract expires, I will return to Ireland with no job and forever regret leaving the public service! On the other hand, it's a wonderful opportunity to take on an interesting project in a great European city! I know it's a very subjective thing but I interested in hearing other opinions on this situation.

boobar · 02-01-2015 11:13pm

What area of IT do you work in MarkeyMark?

markeymark · 02-01-2015 11:19pm

Hi boobar, I'm a bit of a jack of all trades where I am at the moment, mostly web and database design and development, PHP, SQL, C#, Sybase etc. The proposed position is predominantly front-end web development stuff - jQuery, ember.js, open source.

cee_jay · 02-01-2015 11:22pm

Can you apply for a career break from your current role?

boobar · 02-01-2015 11:25pm

markeymark wrote: »

Hi boobar, I'm a bit of a jack of all trades where I am at the moment, mostly web and database design and development, PHP, SQL, C#, Sybase etc. The proposed position is predominantly front-end web development stuff - jQuery, ember.js, open source.

OK, so I know you're concerned about leaving, but at the moment there seems to be quite a number of vacancies for developers particularly around Dublin.

It wouldn't be unusual for you to leave and end up coming back and picking up work as a contractor.

It really depends on how much you want the job in Europe and weighing that up against how much you enjoy your current job.

Cedrus · 02-01-2015 11:28pm

We spend a huge proportion of our lives at work, may as well enjoy it.
Job security is important is you have a mortgage and/or dependents but there's more to life than wages.
IT is supposedly booming (I know there are specialisations which are better than others). As a lifelong contractor I'd say leap at it.

delthedriver · 02-01-2015 11:30pm

markeymark wrote: »

My situation is as follows: I am an IT specialist in the public sector (not civil service) where I earn a decent salary slightly above the average industrial wage. My job is OK, I quite enjoy it for the most part. I am permanent and pensionable (lucky me ). I would say I am happy, but rarely out of my comfort zone!

However, I have been offered a position in mainland Europe for a well-known NGO on a 2 year contract. I worked for them before on secondment and enjoyed it very much. The salary is about 20% better than I receive now. The problem is, I won't have the fall back of my job back home this time around.

I fear that when my contract expires, I will return to Ireland with no job and forever regret leaving the public service! On the other hand, it's a wonderful opportunity to take on an interesting project in a great European city! I know it's a very subjective thing but I interested in hearing other opinions on this situation.

What would you like to do? How could the experience abroad help your cv? Sure pensions are very important...... however could you improve your career by taking this move? Is there a career break facility in your Company ? Change is good, don,t be afraid of it. Happy 2015!

Laneyh · 02-01-2015 11:38pm

markeymark wrote: »

My situation is as follows: I am an IT specialist in the public sector (not civil service) where I earn a decent salary slightly above the average industrial wage. My job is OK, I quite enjoy it for the most part. I am permanent and pensionable (lucky me ). I would say I am happy, but rarely out of my comfort zone!

However, I have been offered a position in mainland Europe for a well-known NGO on a 2 year contract. I worked for them before on secondment and enjoyed it very much. The salary is about 20% better than I receive now. The problem is, I won't have the fall back of my job back home this time around.

I fear that when my contract expires, I will return to Ireland with no job and forever regret leaving the public service! On the other hand, it's a wonderful opportunity to take on an interesting project in a great European city! I know it's a very subjective thing but I interested in hearing other opinions on this situation.

I suppose your age and responsibilities would be relevant.
Having a permanent pensionable job is rare these days but it's not the be all and end all either.
If you don't have dependents or massive repayments that you can't afford to miss then you can probably afford to take a risk.
I'm assuming you're a good few years off retirement so again even if things don't go to plan you would have time to rectify it.

Would there be a chance that the role in Europe would extend past 2 years?

It sounds like your skills are fairly bankable, you can never know for sure what will be in demand in a couple of year's time but maybe working in Europe would stand to you.
You may have added to your language skills too.

Try and weigh up the pros and cons logically and if there is nothing there that causes you to wake up in a cold sweat I'd be inclined to give it a go

markeymark · 02-01-2015 11:55pm

OP here, lots of good advice posted, just a bit of further background...

I'm in my very early thirties without a mortgage or dependants, but I am mortgage approved and thinking of buying a place before this offer came along. I was on secondment at this European NGO a few years ago, so I do have a bit of the language and I know what I'm letting myself in for. It is possible that the contract would be extended past the 2 years, but the long term plan would be to move back to Ireland at some point.

A career break is not an option where I work unfortunately.

I'm in Cork but it's true that the jobs market down here is pretty buoyant for developers with a bit of experience. Also, there is no chance of ever getting a pay rise or promotion in my current job right now. I think it's more the fact that I genuinely do enjoy what I am doing is what is making the decision a tricky one! If I hated my current job, I would jump at this opportunity :pac:

delthedriver · 03-01-2015 12:01am

Happiness is very important .

Steven Gerard perhaps is a good example. He stayed with Liverpool despite offers over the years.

Life is for living !

cocoman · 03-01-2015 12:04am

I thought that all permanent public sector employees can apply for career break? Have you applied? If you have no ties (mortgage, kids, etc) then the job abroad would be a great experience as you would know whats ahead of you with being there before.

markfinn · 03-01-2015 12:16am

markeymark wrote: »

My situation is as follows: I am an IT specialist in the public sector (not civil service) where I earn a decent salary slightly above the average industrial wage
.
.
.
However, I have been offered a position in mainland Europe for a well-known NGO on a 2 year contract. I worked for them before on secondment and enjoyed it very much.
.
.
.
It's a wonderful opportunity to take on an interesting project in a great European city!

Go, by all means! Better to regret an action knowing it for a mistake than to forever wonder what might have been.

Just, y'know, pass my CV on to your current lot's HR (or dept head if they're sensible enough to keep HR out of hiring decisions) before you go...

Kristopherus · 03-01-2015 12:17am

cocoman wrote: »

I thought that all permanent public sector employees can apply for career break? Have you applied? If you have no ties (mortgage, kids, etc) then the job abroad would be a great experience as you would know whats ahead of you with being there before.

So did I, and certainly over the past few years the directions fron HQ was to facilitate wher humanly possible all applications for unpaid leave. I'm not at all sure that this policy has changed. OP you should apply for a 3-year career break. The worst that can happen is that you will be refused. You will then have the option of appealing to a National Director, who may very well take a different view. The very fact that your are going to a NGO should work in your favour.

markeymark · 03-01-2015 12:17am

cocoman wrote: »

I thought that all permanent public sector employees can apply for career break? Have you applied? If you have no ties (mortgage, kids, etc) then the job abroad would be a great experience as you would know whats ahead of you with being there before.

My understanding is that you cannot be employed by anyone else while on career break from the public service (apart from the special incentivised career break that was available in 2009). I have been told informally that an application wouldn't be looked kindly upon anyway due to lack of resources, whether they have the right to say that I'm not so sure!

markeymark · 03-01-2015 12:23am

markfinn wrote: »

Just, y'know, pass my CV on to your current lot's HR (or dept head if they're sensible enough to keep HR out of hiring decisions) before you go...

Haha I'll put in a good word for you markfinn ;-)

Sasha42 · 03-01-2015 12:33am

New year, new you.... Go for it.

Zipppy · 03-01-2015 12:37am

You sure you cant avail of a career break?
Enquire with your local union rep as to your entitlements..
Time off with no pay? Possibly only few months but could facilitate insight into new position before leaving your job..
otherwise...IT experience..early 30s..no ties...go for it!
Remember when ones time comes its the opportunities you didnt take you'll regret more so than those you did

......apparently

Banjaxed82 · 03-01-2015 12:39am

Do it! 2 years is a long time. You've no idea what's going to happen between now and then. You might saddle up with some continental chick/dude, and not even come back.

cocoman · 03-01-2015 12:40am

markeymark wrote: »

My understanding is that you cannot be employed by anyone else while on career break from the public service (apart from the special incentivised career break that was available in 2009). I have been told informally that an application wouldn't be looked kindly upon anyway due to lack of resources, whether they have the right to say that I'm not so sure!

I'm nearly certain that you can take up employment while on career break - just not with another public sector organisation. Management may however refuse the application if there is currently nobody else in the organisation that can undertake your duties while you are away. No harm in applying for the career break anyway.

Kristopherus · 03-01-2015 12:45am

markeymark wrote: »

My understanding is that you cannot be employed by anyone else while on career break from the public service (apart from the special incentivised career break that was available in 2009). I have been told informally that an application wouldn't be looked kindly upon anyway due to lack of resources, whether they have the right to say that I'm not so sure!

And one of the three original grounds for availing a career break was to enable applicant to work with Charitable/ Missionary/NGO ??????????

Looking at the application unkindly may not be the end of the world. Apply and see what happens. You are young enough to achieve max pension entitlement if you are gone for only 3 years. If refused a CB, appeal it. If that fails, apply for unpaid leave.

Zipppy · 03-01-2015 12:58am

AFAIK you cant work as an employee within the state whilst on a career break!
Europe is fair game....

markeymark · 03-01-2015 1:03am

cocoman wrote: »

I'm nearly certain that you can take up employment while on career break - just not with another public sector organisation. Management may however refuse the application if there is currently nobody else in the organisation that can undertake your duties while you are away. No harm in applying for the career break anyway.

Kristopherus wrote: »

And one of the three original grounds for availing a career break was to enable applicant to work with Charitable/ Missionary/NGO ??????????

Looking at the application unkindly may not be the end of the world. Apply and see what happens. You are young enough to achieve max pension entitlement if you are gone for only 3 years. If refused a CB, appeal it. If that fails, apply for unpaid leave.

Yeah, it sounds like I need to clarify exactly what I'm entitled to as regards the career break, I will read up on the documentation next week. Certainly, resources are extremely tight where I work at the moment...I might be lucky I guess!

the_syco · 03-01-2015 1:08am

markeymark wrote: »

My understanding is that you cannot be employed by anyone else while on career break from the public service

Double check it, but as far as I know; you cannot be employed by anyone else in Ireland whilst on the career break.

People would routinely go for the career break abroad, get experience, and come back with said experience. I think it was quite popular for people in the medical profession to work abroad for a bit, and then come back with their new found wisdom.

markeymark wrote: »

My job is OK, I quite enjoy it for the most part. I am permanent and pensionable (lucky me ).

Nothing is permanent. Get the experience abroad whilst you have no ties to here.

ezra_pound · 03-01-2015 1:14am

No public servants are entitled to a career break. It is a scheme which may be facilitated at management discretion. It is not usual for a career break to be granted in the current environment.

And no you cannot work when on career break. As other posters said if you avail of it to travel abroad it is unlikely that you need to be worried about working abroad but technically you would breach the agreement by working in Ireland.

Edit: actually, sorry, I think you can take up employment in Ireland.

martingriff · 03-01-2015 1:20am

markeymark wrote: »

My understanding is that you cannot be employed by anyone else while on career break from the public service (apart from the special incentivised career break that was available in 2009). I have been told informally that an application wouldn't be looked kindly upon anyway due to lack of resources, whether they have the right to say that I'm not so sure!

you can be employed i know one in our building who works in ireland. Outside the country you could always work. Apply anyway and see you do not need to tell them why. Lack of resources could be a reason

Kristopherus · 03-01-2015 1:31am

ezra_pound wrote: »

No public servants are entitled to a career break. It is a scheme which may be facilitated at management discretion. It is not usual for a career break to be granted in the current environment.

And no you cannot work when on career break. As other posters said if you avail of it to travel abroad it is unlikely that you need to be worried about working abroad but technically you would breach the agreement by working in Ireland.

Edit: actually, sorry, I think you can take up employment in Ireland.

No. You cannot work in Ireland. Here is a line from the HSE scheme, which should be similar to all other CS & PS employers.

"During the career break an employee is not permitted to work for another employer (with the exception of
persons who take up employment during travel abroad)."

And here is a link to the Application Form: http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Resources/HR_Forms/HR_105_Career_Break_form.pdf

ezra_pound · 03-01-2015 1:53am

martingriff wrote: »

you can be employed i know one in our building who works in ireland. Outside the country you could always work. Apply anyway and see you do not need to tell them why. Lack of resources could be a reason

Yes. In the civil service this permission to work was brought in in 2013. I'd say very few CBS in the civil service have been granted since then. As others have pointed out other public bodies may not allow employment.

Tom Dunne · 03-01-2015 9:49am

I think it depends on what you want out of life.

I lasted a whole 13 months in a Public Sector ogranisation. I simply couldn't handle the work ethic, so I moved on.

To me, the two year contract sounds like a great opportunity, especially given the skills you have that are sought after in the marketplace.

Personally, I'd jump at it.

Magellan2015 · 03-01-2015 12:14pm

Kristopherus wrote: »

No. You cannot work in Ireland. Here is a line from the HSE scheme, which should be similar to all other CS & PS employers.

This was changed recently specifically to encourage people to go and get experience outside the public service and then bring that experience back in a year or two later. I know of at least one civil servant who is doing exactly that at the moment.

I saw a circular last year (and it probably went around a few departments) saying that because DPER wouldn't sanction replacements for people going on career breaks, no-one would be allowed go on career breaks. Struck me as a stupid attitude by DPER— replacements on point 1 of a scale are going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than the same employee on point 10. Supposedly, it no longer necessary from 1 January to go and personally beg Brendan Howlin for authorisation for each individual extra man-hour or temporary contract, but this is likely to be a bigger hurdle— the OP's employer probably hasn't been allowed recruit anyone for 6 or 7 years, and may not be able to replace him if he goes, so they're unlikely to make it easy for him to go.

markeymark · 03-01-2015 2:10pm

Magellan2015 wrote: »

I saw a circular last year (and it probably went around a few departments) saying that because DPER wouldn't sanction replacements for people going on career breaks, no-one would be allowed go on career breaks. Struck me as a stupid attitude by DPER— replacements on point 1 of a scale are going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than the same employee on point 10. Supposedly, it no longer necessary from 1 January to go and personally beg Brendan Howlin for authorisation for each individual extra man-hour or temporary contract, but this is likely to be a bigger hurdle— the OP's employer probably hasn't been allowed recruit anyone for 6 or 7 years, and may not be able to replace him if he goes, so they're unlikely to make it easy for him to go.

I think that's the crux of the matter Magellan, we haven't been allowed recruit people since the economy went under, they will in all probability not be allowed replace me until the countries finances are back in order. I can't see a career break being granted realistically speaking.

ezra_pound · 03-01-2015 2:11pm

Magellan2015 wrote: »

This was changed recently specifically to encourage people to go and get experience outside the public service and then bring that experience back in a year or two later. I know of at least one civil servant who is doing exactly that at the moment.

I saw a circular last year (and it probably went around a few departments) saying that because DPER wouldn't sanction replacements for people going on career breaks, no-one would be allowed go on career breaks. Struck me as a stupid attitude by DPER— replacements on point 1 of a scale are going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than the same employee on point 10. Supposedly, it no longer necessary from 1 January to go and personally beg Brendan Howlin for authorisation for each individual extra man-hour or temporary contract, but this is likely to be a bigger hurdle— the OP's employer probably hasn't been allowed recruit anyone for 6 or 7 years, and may not be able to replace him if he goes, so they're unlikely to make it easy for him to go.

This was for civil service not the HSE.

Mad to leave public service?

Comments