Mad to leave public service?

markeymark

My situation is as follows: I am an IT specialist in the public sector (not civil service) where I earn a decent salary slightly above the average industrial wage. My job is OK, I quite enjoy it for the most part. I am permanent and pensionable (lucky me ). I would say I am happy, but rarely out of my comfort zone!

However, I have been offered a position in mainland Europe for a well-known NGO on a 2 year contract. I worked for them before on secondment and enjoyed it very much. The salary is about 20% better than I receive now. The problem is, I won't have the fall back of my job back home this time around.

I fear that when my contract expires, I will return to Ireland with no job and forever regret leaving the public service! On the other hand, it's a wonderful opportunity to take on an interesting project in a great European city! I know it's a very subjective thing but I interested in hearing other opinions on this situation.

boobar

What area of IT do you work in MarkeyMark?

markeymark

Hi boobar, I'm a bit of a jack of all trades where I am at the moment, mostly web and database design and development, PHP, SQL, C#, Sybase etc. The proposed position is predominantly front-end web development stuff - jQuery, ember.js, open source.

cee_jay

Can you apply for a career break from your current role?

boobar

markeymark wrote: »

Hi boobar, I'm a bit of a jack of all trades where I am at the moment, mostly web and database design and development, PHP, SQL, C#, Sybase etc. The proposed position is predominantly front-end web development stuff - jQuery, ember.js, open source.

OK, so I know you're concerned about leaving, but at the moment there seems to be quite a number of vacancies for developers particularly around Dublin.

It wouldn't be unusual for you to leave and end up coming back and picking up work as a contractor.

It really depends on how much you want the job in Europe and weighing that up against how much you enjoy your current job.

Cedrus

We spend a huge proportion of our lives at work, may as well enjoy it.
Job security is important is you have a mortgage and/or dependents but there's more to life than wages.
IT is supposedly booming (I know there are specialisations which are better than others). As a lifelong contractor I'd say leap at it.

delthedriver

markeymark wrote: »

My situation is as follows: I am an IT specialist in the public sector (not civil service) where I earn a decent salary slightly above the average industrial wage. My job is OK, I quite enjoy it for the most part. I am permanent and pensionable (lucky me ). I would say I am happy, but rarely out of my comfort zone!

However, I have been offered a position in mainland Europe for a well-known NGO on a 2 year contract. I worked for them before on secondment and enjoyed it very much. The salary is about 20% better than I receive now. The problem is, I won't have the fall back of my job back home this time around.

I fear that when my contract expires, I will return to Ireland with no job and forever regret leaving the public service! On the other hand, it's a wonderful opportunity to take on an interesting project in a great European city! I know it's a very subjective thing but I interested in hearing other opinions on this situation.

What would you like to do? How could the experience abroad help your cv? Sure pensions are very important...... however could you improve your career by taking this move? Is there a career break facility in your Company ? Change is good, don,t be afraid of it. Happy 2015!

Laneyh

markeymark wrote: »

My situation is as follows: I am an IT specialist in the public sector (not civil service) where I earn a decent salary slightly above the average industrial wage. My job is OK, I quite enjoy it for the most part. I am permanent and pensionable (lucky me ). I would say I am happy, but rarely out of my comfort zone!

However, I have been offered a position in mainland Europe for a well-known NGO on a 2 year contract. I worked for them before on secondment and enjoyed it very much. The salary is about 20% better than I receive now. The problem is, I won't have the fall back of my job back home this time around.

I fear that when my contract expires, I will return to Ireland with no job and forever regret leaving the public service! On the other hand, it's a wonderful opportunity to take on an interesting project in a great European city! I know it's a very subjective thing but I interested in hearing other opinions on this situation.

I suppose your age and responsibilities would be relevant.
Having a permanent pensionable job is rare these days but it's not the be all and end all either.
If you don't have dependents or massive repayments that you can't afford to miss then you can probably afford to take a risk.
I'm assuming you're a good few years off retirement so again even if things don't go to plan you would have time to rectify it.

Would there be a chance that the role in Europe would extend past 2 years?

It sounds like your skills are fairly bankable, you can never know for sure what will be in demand in a couple of year's time but maybe working in Europe would stand to you.
You may have added to your language skills too.

Try and weigh up the pros and cons logically and if there is nothing there that causes you to wake up in a cold sweat I'd be inclined to give it a go

markeymark

OP here, lots of good advice posted, just a bit of further background...

I'm in my very early thirties without a mortgage or dependants, but I am mortgage approved and thinking of buying a place before this offer came along. I was on secondment at this European NGO a few years ago, so I do have a bit of the language and I know what I'm letting myself in for. It is possible that the contract would be extended past the 2 years, but the long term plan would be to move back to Ireland at some point.

A career break is not an option where I work unfortunately.

I'm in Cork but it's true that the jobs market down here is pretty buoyant for developers with a bit of experience. Also, there is no chance of ever getting a pay rise or promotion in my current job right now. I think it's more the fact that I genuinely do enjoy what I am doing is what is making the decision a tricky one! If I hated my current job, I would jump at this opportunity :pac:

delthedriver

Happiness is very important .


Steven Gerard perhaps is a good example. He stayed with Liverpool despite offers over the years.


Life is for living !

cocoman

I thought that all permanent public sector employees can apply for career break? Have you applied? If you have no ties (mortgage, kids, etc) then the job abroad would be a great experience as you would know whats ahead of you with being there before.

markfinn

markeymark wrote: »

My situation is as follows: I am an IT specialist in the public sector (not civil service) where I earn a decent salary slightly above the average industrial wage
.
.
.
However, I have been offered a position in mainland Europe for a well-known NGO on a 2 year contract. I worked for them before on secondment and enjoyed it very much.
.
.
.
It's a wonderful opportunity to take on an interesting project in a great European city!

Go, by all means! Better to regret an action knowing it for a mistake than to forever wonder what might have been.

Just, y'know, pass my CV on to your current lot's HR (or dept head if they're sensible enough to keep HR out of hiring decisions) before you go...

Kristopherus

cocoman wrote: »

I thought that all permanent public sector employees can apply for career break? Have you applied? If you have no ties (mortgage, kids, etc) then the job abroad would be a great experience as you would know whats ahead of you with being there before.

So did I, and certainly over the past few years the directions fron HQ was to facilitate wher humanly possible all applications for unpaid leave. I'm not at all sure that this policy has changed. OP you should apply for a 3-year career break. The worst that can happen is that you will be refused. You will then have the option of appealing to a National Director, who may very well take a different view. The very fact that your are going to a NGO should work in your favour.

markeymark

cocoman wrote: »

I thought that all permanent public sector employees can apply for career break? Have you applied? If you have no ties (mortgage, kids, etc) then the job abroad would be a great experience as you would know whats ahead of you with being there before.

My understanding is that you cannot be employed by anyone else while on career break from the public service (apart from the special incentivised career break that was available in 2009). I have been told informally that an application wouldn't be looked kindly upon anyway due to lack of resources, whether they have the right to say that I'm not so sure!

markeymark

markfinn wrote: »

Just, y'know, pass my CV on to your current lot's HR (or dept head if they're sensible enough to keep HR out of hiring decisions) before you go...

Haha I'll put in a good word for you markfinn ;-)

Sasha42

New year, new you.... Go for it.

Zipppy

You sure you cant avail of a career break?
Enquire with your local union rep as to your entitlements..
Time off with no pay? Possibly only few months but could facilitate insight into new position before leaving your job..
otherwise...IT experience..early 30s..no ties...go for it!
Remember when ones time comes its the opportunities you didnt take you'll regret more so than those you did ......apparently

Banjaxed82

Do it! 2 years is a long time. You've no idea what's going to happen between now and then. You might saddle up with some continental chick/dude, and not even come back.

cocoman

markeymark wrote: »

My understanding is that you cannot be employed by anyone else while on career break from the public service (apart from the special incentivised career break that was available in 2009). I have been told informally that an application wouldn't be looked kindly upon anyway due to lack of resources, whether they have the right to say that I'm not so sure!

I'm nearly certain that you can take up employment while on career break - just not with another public sector organisation. Management may however refuse the application if there is currently nobody else in the organisation that can undertake your duties while you are away. No harm in applying for the career break anyway.

Kristopherus

markeymark wrote: »

My understanding is that you cannot be employed by anyone else while on career break from the public service (apart from the special incentivised career break that was available in 2009). I have been told informally that an application wouldn't be looked kindly upon anyway due to lack of resources, whether they have the right to say that I'm not so sure!

And one of the three original grounds for availing a career break was to enable applicant to work with Charitable/ Missionary/NGO ??????????

Looking at the application unkindly may not be the end of the world. Apply and see what happens. You are young enough to achieve max pension entitlement if you are gone for only 3 years. If refused a CB, appeal it. If that fails, apply for unpaid leave.

Zipppy

AFAIK you cant work as an employee within the state whilst on a career break!
Europe is fair game....

markeymark

cocoman wrote: »

I'm nearly certain that you can take up employment while on career break - just not with another public sector organisation. Management may however refuse the application if there is currently nobody else in the organisation that can undertake your duties while you are away. No harm in applying for the career break anyway.

Kristopherus wrote: »

And one of the three original grounds for availing a career break was to enable applicant to work with Charitable/ Missionary/NGO ??????????

Looking at the application unkindly may not be the end of the world. Apply and see what happens. You are young enough to achieve max pension entitlement if you are gone for only 3 years. If refused a CB, appeal it. If that fails, apply for unpaid leave.

Yeah, it sounds like I need to clarify exactly what I'm entitled to as regards the career break, I will read up on the documentation next week. Certainly, resources are extremely tight where I work at the moment...I might be lucky I guess!

the_syco

markeymark wrote: »

My understanding is that you cannot be employed by anyone else while on career break from the public service

Double check it, but as far as I know; you cannot be employed by anyone else in Ireland whilst on the career break.

People would routinely go for the career break abroad, get experience, and come back with said experience. I think it was quite popular for people in the medical profession to work abroad for a bit, and then come back with their new found wisdom.

markeymark wrote: »

My job is OK, I quite enjoy it for the most part. I am permanent and pensionable (lucky me ).

Nothing is permanent. Get the experience abroad whilst you have no ties to here.

ezra_pound

No public servants are entitled to a career break. It is a scheme which may be facilitated at management discretion. It is not usual for a career break to be granted in the current environment.

And no you cannot work when on career break. As other posters said if you avail of it to travel abroad it is unlikely that you need to be worried about working abroad but technically you would breach the agreement by working in Ireland.

Edit: actually, sorry, I think you can take up employment in Ireland.

martingriff

markeymark wrote: »

My understanding is that you cannot be employed by anyone else while on career break from the public service (apart from the special incentivised career break that was available in 2009). I have been told informally that an application wouldn't be looked kindly upon anyway due to lack of resources, whether they have the right to say that I'm not so sure!

you can be employed i know one in our building who works in ireland. Outside the country you could always work. Apply anyway and see you do not need to tell them why. Lack of resources could be a reason

Kristopherus

ezra_pound wrote: »

No public servants are entitled to a career break. It is a scheme which may be facilitated at management discretion. It is not usual for a career break to be granted in the current environment.

And no you cannot work when on career break. As other posters said if you avail of it to travel abroad it is unlikely that you need to be worried about working abroad but technically you would breach the agreement by working in Ireland.

Edit: actually, sorry, I think you can take up employment in Ireland.

No. You cannot work in Ireland. Here is a line from the HSE scheme, which should be similar to all other CS & PS employers.

"During the career break an employee is not permitted to work for another employer (with the exception of
persons who take up employment during travel abroad)."

And here is a link to the Application Form: http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Resources/HR_Forms/HR_105_Career_Break_form.pdf

ezra_pound

martingriff wrote: »

you can be employed i know one in our building who works in ireland. Outside the country you could always work. Apply anyway and see you do not need to tell them why. Lack of resources could be a reason

Yes. In the civil service this permission to work was brought in in 2013. I'd say very few CBS in the civil service have been granted since then. As others have pointed out other public bodies may not allow employment.

Tom Dunne

I think it depends on what you want out of life.

I lasted a whole 13 months in a Public Sector ogranisation. I simply couldn't handle the work ethic, so I moved on.

To me, the two year contract sounds like a great opportunity, especially given the skills you have that are sought after in the marketplace.

Personally, I'd jump at it.

Magellan2015

Kristopherus wrote: »

No. You cannot work in Ireland. Here is a line from the HSE scheme, which should be similar to all other CS & PS employers.

This was changed recently specifically to encourage people to go and get experience outside the public service and then bring that experience back in a year or two later. I know of at least one civil servant who is doing exactly that at the moment.

I saw a circular last year (and it probably went around a few departments) saying that because DPER wouldn't sanction replacements for people going on career breaks, no-one would be allowed go on career breaks. Struck me as a stupid attitude by DPER— replacements on point 1 of a scale are going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than the same employee on point 10. Supposedly, it no longer necessary from 1 January to go and personally beg Brendan Howlin for authorisation for each individual extra man-hour or temporary contract, but this is likely to be a bigger hurdle— the OP's employer probably hasn't been allowed recruit anyone for 6 or 7 years, and may not be able to replace him if he goes, so they're unlikely to make it easy for him to go.

markeymark

Magellan2015 wrote: »

I saw a circular last year (and it probably went around a few departments) saying that because DPER wouldn't sanction replacements for people going on career breaks, no-one would be allowed go on career breaks. Struck me as a stupid attitude by DPER— replacements on point 1 of a scale are going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than the same employee on point 10. Supposedly, it no longer necessary from 1 January to go and personally beg Brendan Howlin for authorisation for each individual extra man-hour or temporary contract, but this is likely to be a bigger hurdle— the OP's employer probably hasn't been allowed recruit anyone for 6 or 7 years, and may not be able to replace him if he goes, so they're unlikely to make it easy for him to go.

I think that's the crux of the matter Magellan, we haven't been allowed recruit people since the economy went under, they will in all probability not be allowed replace me until the countries finances are back in order. I can't see a career break being granted realistically speaking.

ezra_pound

Magellan2015 wrote: »

This was changed recently specifically to encourage people to go and get experience outside the public service and then bring that experience back in a year or two later. I know of at least one civil servant who is doing exactly that at the moment.

I saw a circular last year (and it probably went around a few departments) saying that because DPER wouldn't sanction replacements for people going on career breaks, no-one would be allowed go on career breaks. Struck me as a stupid attitude by DPER— replacements on point 1 of a scale are going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than the same employee on point 10. Supposedly, it no longer necessary from 1 January to go and personally beg Brendan Howlin for authorisation for each individual extra man-hour or temporary contract, but this is likely to be a bigger hurdle— the OP's employer probably hasn't been allowed recruit anyone for 6 or 7 years, and may not be able to replace him if he goes, so they're unlikely to make it easy for him to go.

This was for civil service not the HSE.

Damien_d12

delthedriver wrote: »

Happiness is very important .


Steven Gerard perhaps is a good example. He stayed with Liverpool despite offers over the years.


Life is for living !

Yes though he was on his way to Chelsea only LFC made a higher offer. #Loyalty

gerbilgranny

To the OP - I think you answered your own question.

Lucky you, enjoying your job here - but it seems to me that there's more going for the position abroad.

Take a parachute, and jump....(sounds like you're likely to have further opportunities here, when you return....but my advice would be to go with your heart).

Gongoozler

I say go for it. An IT specialist is not going to be short of work in the next 5 years, so I wouldn't worry about what you have to come back to. And as someone else said, you never know what the new job will lead to.

Oh and to the person who said about the work ethic in the public sector, considering the public sector is so large in Ireland you might want to clarify where it was rather than tarring the entire thing and all its employees with the same brush. I'm in a public sector body and the work ethic is fantastic, the issue is that you, depending on the individual organisation, can't progress a whole lot within it, and unfortunately means you can't redeploy. I just hate this lazy attitude towards the public sector, it's not the people, it's the rules.

boobar

Zipppy wrote: »

AFAIK you cant work as an employee within the state whilst on a career break!
Europe is fair game....

That's my understanding as well....

However I know plenty of people that have taken career breaks and worked in the private sector in Ireland and then returned to their public service jobs, so it's not enforced

beauf

boobar wrote: »

...I know plenty of people that have taken career breaks and worked in the private sector in Ireland and then returned to their public service jobs, so it's not enforced

As do I. There probably different rules and agreements in different parts of the public sector vs the civil service.

Maya the Bee

markeymark wrote: »

My situation is as follows: I am an IT specialist in the public sector (not civil service) where I earn a decent salary slightly above the average industrial wage. My job is OK, I quite enjoy it for the most part. I am permanent and pensionable (lucky me ). I would say I am happy, but rarely out of my comfort zone!

However, I have been offered a position in mainland Europe for a well-known NGO on a 2 year contract. I worked for them before on secondment and enjoyed it very much. The salary is about 20% better than I receive now. The problem is, I won't have the fall back of my job back home this time around.

I fear that when my contract expires, I will return to Ireland with no job and forever regret leaving the public service! On the other hand, it's a wonderful opportunity to take on an interesting project in a great European city! I know it's a very subjective thing but I interested in hearing other opinions on this situation.

You can apply for a career break to take up another employment:
Circular-4-of-2013-Career-Break-Scheme-in-the-Civil-Service.

_Kaiser_

Unless you can get the career break I'd probably stay put myself (as someone who has worked in both the public and private sectors myself)

Sure the other job is exciting and what not, but it's a contract and you plan to come back here .. if you were thinking of staying that's a different matter, but giving up a secure pensionable job that you do enjoy seems like a bit of a gamble if you're thinking of mortgages too.

My experience with IT since moving back into the private sector (forced redundancy in 2009 thanks to cutbacks) is that there's so much demand for the non-callcentre/higher-up-the-ladder roles that it really is an employer's market. "Developer" seems to be another of the current buzzwords that everyone is getting into as well. I'm sure you'll get something when ya come back but whether it's as secure as what you have now is the question.

I wouldn't rush into anything anyway