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Stylish springer spaniel

2

Comments

  • #32
    Brianmeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭Brianmeath


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Sorry Brian but they are bred to do just that. Without hunting the cover how do you know there is nothing in it?

    Trust the dogs nose....FFS!!

    Your correct


  • #33
    fiestaman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    It's not as simple as that, you do train your dog's to use the wind don't you? It don't matter when a bird landed in any dog with a half decent nose will pick it up, that ditch is fairly light if your dog is trained right it and uses the wind itwill pick up a bird in that ditch no problem if it doesn't give it away as a pet

    Ah you must be hunting beet fields. Stephens day and the day after here Kilkenny were -2 at 8.30am with NO wind, if I let my dog run down along a ditch without seeing him go to cover I'd give him off lad no problem. What your talking about is pointer setter work not beating cover for woodcock and pheasants for that matter when the cold weather sets in. We rose 8 woodcock yesterday at least 20-30 feet in from the field we were walking in. I'd love to see your dog wind them and trail them and flush them.


  • #34
    Brianmeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭Brianmeath


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    It's not as simple as that, you do train your dog's to use the wind don't you? It don't matter when a bird landed in any dog with a half decent nose will pick it up, that ditch is fairly light if your dog is trained right it and uses the wind itwill pick up a bird in that ditch no problem if it doesn't give it away as a pet
    Couldn't put any better.


  • #35
    fiestaman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    It's not as simple as that, you do train your dog's to use the wind don't you? It don't matter when a bird landed in any dog with a half decent nose will pick it up, that ditch is fairly light if your dog is trained right it and uses the wind itwill pick up a bird in that ditch no problem if it doesn't give it away as a pet

    Just on the wind thing, if you can keep your dogs working always into the wind then your some man.


  • #36
    tikkahunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    fiestaman wrote: »
    Ah you must be hunting beet fields. Stephens day and the day after here Kilkenny were -2 at 8.30am with NO wind, if I let my dog run down along a ditch without seeing him go to cover I'd give him off lad no problem. What your talking about is pointer setter work beating cover for woodcock and pheasants for that matter when the cold weather sets in. We rose 8 woodcock yesterday at least 20-30 feet in from the field we were walking in. I'd love to see your dog wind them and trail them and flush them.
    No if the dog was working beet, stubble or set aside the dogs are fully trained to quarter and if working cover or woodland they will work it the same way when sent in,what i am talking about is the second video the ditch is light the dogs should nip in around the ditch top and when they wind something flush it.
    fiestaman wrote: »
    Just on the wind thing, if you can keep your dogs working always into the wind then your some man.
    The dogs dont work into the wind they learn to use the wind from their training .
    Listen 6 years ago you where on here asking about which dogs to use for hunting and how to train them ,which books etc .

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57209006

    I have 20 odd years more experience than you i am no expert but i know what i am talking about. When training a dog you teach it to use the wind when quartering it is part of the process go back on some of your old threads and buy some of the books and videos that where suggested to you and you will see how its done.
    Dawggone wrote: »
    You are making the weakest excuses for the worst dogs.
    How do you reckon that ? , my dogs are trained to a very high standard if they have to go in and rip heavy cover apart they are sent in to do that and if they are just working a ditch like that second video then they just work the top nip in and out and if they wind something they go in and flush it, pointless having a dog working a ditch like that and staying in it the whole time.


    If a dog is bred for a job why do people accept (and feed) a dog that doesn't do just that?
    I never want to see a springer only hear it. If I want the dog out of cover I will call it out.


    SPANIELS MUST HIT COVER.
    Make all the usual excuses for the dogs that don't hit cover but they are not fit for purpose if they don't.

    Again what we are talking about here is not real cover its a ditch with a few dirty spots on it that will hold birds, i dont expect my dog to go in at the start and come out at the end , just working the top of that is fine , your man in the video has them a bit loose and they are running up and down a fair bit what im talking about is staying tight and working not just running up and down the ditch aimlessly


    The real problem with spaniels is when you get one with good drive they lack stamina.


    Well i will concede that to you , what has been done with the full blessing of the kennel club to the Springers in this country is disgraceful , they freely let anybody with a field trail champion let his dog up on anything for a few quid, they have ruined great hunting lines and let "pets" into the hunting line , some of the springers going around now are more like my cocker in build and can only hunt in short bursts , you are lucky to get a morning out of them.


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  • #37
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    To reply to Tikka.

    I'm sorry if I come across as cynical.

    I'm more the purist...
    To me spaniels were originally bred to hunt cover, soooo, if I need a dog to hunt cover, I will get a springer. Full stop. The sight of a spaniel hunting open country like sugar beet etc makes me smile. The most unsuitable dog for that must be a springer. The most suitable dog for cover is a spaniel, so if they can't/won't/don't do that then they are of no use.
    We differ. I want a cover dog to do cover, all day long and five days a week.
    Any spaniel that doesn't do this I have no interest in.



    It is not the trialling man's fault for the demise of the spaniel.
    It is the fault of field trials.

    I regret to say I no longer have a spaniel because, even though I had some good ones, they didn't breed through and the line slipped through my fingers.


  • #38
    tikkahunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    The land i work is very mixed , one of the largest farms i shoot on would have stubble ,heavy cover ,grass with cattle ,ploughed fields and set aside with rivers so in one day i could have huge variance in what land i shoot and the part of the country where my club land is located it is hugely mixed so thats what i set my dogs up for,but yes i can see what your saying for heavy cover no point in your dog running around your feet afraid to hit the cover ,im saying the same but when working ditches i keep them up top staying tight working in tandem,they go in when is a scent or they want to hunt a heavy part themselves ,the 2 i have at the moment are 4 and 5 so it is just second nature to them now, they hunt away, every now and again i have to remind them who is boss though. I feel the kennel club should have stepped in and stopped what is going on , you look at any adds for dogs in shooting magazines, done deal, buy and sell etc and all the litters where being sired by the same few dogs.


  • #39
    fiestaman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    No if the dog was working beet, stubble or set aside the dogs are fully trained to quarter and if working cover or woodland they will work it the same way when sent in,what i am talking about is the second video the ditch is light the dogs should nip in around the ditch top and when they wind something flush it.

    The dogs dont work into the wind they learn to use the wind from their training .
    Listen 6 years ago you where on here asking about which dogs to use for hunting and how to train them ,which books etc .

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57209006

    I have 20 odd years more experience than you i am no expert but i know what i am talking about. When training a dog you teach it to use the wind when quartering it is part of the process go back on some of your old threads and buy some of the books and videos that where suggested to you and you will see how its done.
    /QUOTE]

    How do you know what I've done with dogs in the last 6 years. You have a lot of experience under your belt with those 20 odd years alright I'm sure you've brought spaniels to FT level. Il get some of them books and videos and see how you train a dog to quarter 8 feet either side of me and scent birds deep in cover while there doing that, all I need is wind.


  • #40
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    The land i work is very mixed , one of the largest farms i shoot on would have stubble ,heavy cover ,grass with cattle ,ploughed fields and set aside with rivers so in one day i could have huge variance in what land i shoot and the part of the country where my club land is located it is hugely mixed so thats what i set my dogs up for,but yes i can see what your saying for heavy cover no point in your dog running around your feet afraid to hit the cover ,im saying the same but when working ditches i keep them up top staying tight working in tandem,they go in when is a scent or they want to hunt a heavy part themselves ,the 2 i have at the moment are 4 and 5 so it is just second nature to them now, they hunt away, every now and again i have to remind them who is though.



    Maybe you should consider English Setters..... much better all rounders.


  • #41
    hathcock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭hathcock


    fiestaman wrote: »
    tikkahunter wrote: »
    No if the dog was working beet, stubble or set aside the dogs are fully trained to quarter and if working cover or woodland they will work it the same way when sent in,what i am talking about is the second video the ditch is light the dogs should nip in around the ditch top and when they wind something flush it.

    The dogs dont work into the wind they learn to use the wind from their training .
    Listen 6 years ago you where on here asking about which dogs to use for hunting and how to train them ,which books etc .

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57209006

    I have 20 odd years more experience than you i am no expert but i know what i am talking about. When training a dog you teach it to use the wind when quartering it is part of the process go back on some of your old threads and buy some of the books and videos that where suggested to you and you will see how its done.
    /QUOTE]

    How do you know what I've done with dogs in the last 6 years. You have a lot of experience under your belt with those 20 odd years alright I'm sure you've brought spaniels to FT level. Il get some of them books and videos and see how you train a dog to quarter 8 feet either side of me and scent birds deep in cover while there doing that, all I need is wind.
    A man can learn a lot in 6 years,I too have a lot of experience but I wouldn't discount anyone because they are relative newcomers to the sport,one can learn from anyone,I know one young man who started into shooting and gundogs only 3 seasons ago and he has trained his dogs to a high standard,and having spent a day hunting in his company you'd swear he was at it 20 years.For some it just comes natural.


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  • #42
    tikkahunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    fiestaman wrote: »
    tikkahunter wrote: »
    No if the dog was working beet, stubble or set aside the dogs are fully trained to quarter and if working cover or woodland they will work it the same way when sent in,what i am talking about is the second video the ditch is light the dogs should nip in around the ditch top and when they wind something flush it.

    The dogs dont work into the wind they learn to use the wind from their training .
    Listen 6 years ago you where on here asking about which dogs to use for hunting and how to train them ,which books etc .

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57209006

    I have 20 odd years more experience than you i am no expert but i know what i am talking about. When training a dog you teach it to use the wind when quartering it is part of the process go back on some of your old threads and buy some of the books and videos that where suggested to you and you will see how its done.
    /QUOTE]

    How do you know what I've done with dogs in the last 6 years. You have a lot of experience under your belt with those 20 odd years alright I'm sure you've brought spaniels to FT level. Il get some of them books and videos and see how you train a dog to quarter 8 feet either side of me and scent birds deep in cover while there doing that, all I need is wind.
    Who said anything about quartering 8 feet from anything , you teach your dog to quarter and how to use the wind ,so when working close to a ditch or working cover they know what they are at and not just charging about like lunatics, you teach your dog manners then how to hunt , when it has both your job is to keep that going till it kicks the bucket.


  • #43
    tikkahunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Maybe you should consider English Setters..... much better all rounders.
    Na they are a old mans dog:D What i have does me fine ,if i need them to hit cover they do it if they hunt ditches or rivers edge they do it if i them want to quarter stubble they do it , i put a lot of effort into them and i get my rewards during the season, only poor shooting sees me go home empty handed.


  • #44
    fiestaman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    fiestaman wrote: »
    Who said anything about quartering 8 feet from anything , you teach your dog to quarter and how to use the wind ,so when working close to a ditch or working cover they know what they are at and not just charging about like lunatics, you teach your dog manners then how to hunt , when it has both your job is to keep that going till it kicks the bucket.

    I'm not getting into anymore about this thread but one thing I know in my 6 years as you say, you can't teach a spaniel to hunt, he /she either have it or they don't. I like my dog in the cover you like them in the cover and out of the cover, that's grand we'll leave it at that.


  • #45
    tikkahunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    fiestaman wrote: »
    tikkahunter wrote: »

    I'm not getting into anymore about this thread but one thing I know in my 6 years as you say, you can't teach a spaniel to hunt, he /she either have it or they don't. I like my dog in the cover you like them in the cover and out of the cover, that's grand we'll leave it at that.
    plenty going around these days that dont , criminal what has happened really.


  • #46
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    Na they are a old mans dog:D What i have does me fine ,if i need them to hit cover they do it if they hunt ditches or rivers edge they do it if i them want to quarter stubble they do it , i put a lot of effort into them and i get my rewards during the season, only poor shooting sees me go home empty handed.

    Then, de facto, you shoot some very nice country....


  • #47
    tikkahunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Then, de facto, you shoot some very nice country....
    Hopefully no more housing booms kick in , we lost a lot to that and roads but still have a lot of good land left hopefully it stays that way.


  • #48
    fiestaman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    fiestaman wrote: »
    plenty going around these days that dont , criminal what has happened really.

    Ha your a gas man. Happy hunting


  • #49
    tikkahunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    fiestaman wrote: »
    tikkahunter wrote: »
    Ha your a gas man. Happy hunting
    Finally a happy ending to a thread where no one got banned or a warning:D


  • #50
    snipe49
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭snipe49


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    This is the way my dogs work , up on the ditch only go in when they need to ie .something there, no point having a dog ploughing at ditch out of it for no reason , The dog in the first video hunts well has a nice pattern but to keep that pace up is impossible , that dog would be ****ed before you had it out an hour, though saying that my cocker is very like that and can keep going all day.
    I have a bitch out of those two 10 months. FOR SALE.


  • #51
    rebok classic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭rebok classic


    this not the for sale section just out of curiosity you have a pup from the 2 in the second vid what are your reasons for sale dont say no time or room


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  • #52
    snipe49
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭snipe49


    rebok classic wrote: »
    this not the for sale section just out of curiosity you have a pup from the 2 in the second vid what are your reasons for sale dont say no time or room
    Ok i won't say it. :)


  • #53
    snipe49
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭snipe49


    rebok classic wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvKZDaPmJOk
    Was i seeing thing or did he have to pull the pheasant from the dogs mouth' and he won !


  • #54
    rebok classic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭rebok classic


    snipe49 wrote: »
    Was i seeing thing or did he have to pull the pheasant from the dogs mouth' and he won !
    no kid thats called a delivery they are not supposed to drop it on the ground in front of you its so you dont have to put down your gun the dog should hold it up for you


  • #55
    tikkahunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    snipe49 wrote: »
    Was i seeing thing or did he have to pull the pheasant from the dogs mouth' and he won !
    Watch any of the paul french videos of all the championships , a lot of the dogs deliver like that


  • #56
    lakesider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 136 ✭✭lakesider


    snipe49 wrote: »
    Was i seeing thing or did he have to pull the pheasant from the dogs mouth' and he won !

    Ive been reading this thread and the dog knowledge displayed is so poor its actually worrying..the dog in question was delivering a still alive bird so letting it go prematurely would have resulted in a bird maybe flying away,,do any of you "experts in dog handling" know what your actually talking about?, because it comes across that you dont


  • #57
    lakesider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 136 ✭✭lakesider


    snipe49 wrote: »
    Was i seeing thing or did he have to pull the pheasant from the dogs mouth' and he won !

    Ive been reading this thread and the dog knowledge displayed is so poor its actually worrying..the dog in question was delivering a still alive bird so letting it go prematurely would have resulted in a bird maybe flying away,,do any of you "experts in dog handling" know what your actually talking about?, because it comes across that you dont..because if you did you would know that a dog will close down on retrieve faster than he can open up to let it go..opening his mouth to release is a slower process than the pick up!!


  • #58
    Kells1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 112 ✭✭Kells1


    rebok classic wrote: »
    no kid thats called a delivery they are not supposed to drop it on the ground in front of you its so you dont have to put down your gun the dog should hold it up for you

    Lads that was a blatant case of a dog not wanting to let go of the bird lets be honest. He was lucky the judge mick walsh turned a blind eye to it or just didnt see it


  • #59
    rebok classic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭rebok classic


    in fairness she wasnt letting go easy but she obviously wasnt clamping down or damaging the bird you cant speak to the dog not like in the field its easy say dead and dog lets go ,, so he had to grab it from her , he only being judged on the bird being delivered straight to hand unharmed so thats probably why he wasnt put out for it


  • #60
    rebok classic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭rebok classic


    lakesider wrote: »
    Ive been reading this thread and the dog knowledge displayed is so poor its actually worrying..the dog in question was delivering a still alive bird so letting it go prematurely would have resulted in a bird maybe flying away,,do any of you "experts in dog handling" know what your actually talking about?, because it comes across that you dont..because if you did you would know that a dog will close down on retrieve faster than he can open up to let it go..opening his mouth to release is a slower process than the pick up!!
    i didnt know that ,, the opening of the jaw was slower i knew they are weeker on the opening but would never of thought without any resistance they would struggle to let go always thought they were just holding on a bit


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  • #61
    springer man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 99 ✭✭springer man


    Personally I think instead of all arguing ye should go out and each make a video of your dog/s hunting. Then the truth will be known 😀 everyone is different lads, if we all liked the same thing this world would be very boring!


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